Away form

[Worthy4England]

In amongst the 9 defeats and 1 draw, we've had 3 away wins in the Cup. Maybe we used all our away luck on them. Whilst I agree our away form is poor this year and being propped up by our home form, when we look at the games concerned in the last 10, it's probably no big surprise. Without the last minute change of result against Spurs and Everton would have us lower mid table on away form (13th).

You talk about a couple more wins away. Liverpool have only won 4, United 5. It would have been good to get the win at Everton and maybe hold on for a draw at Spurs. That would have been three of your extra 6 points. So what we're saying is, in the context of the season, we'd have preferred to turn an additional loss into a win...

[BWFC_Insane]

In amongst the 9 defeats and 1 draw, we've had 3 away wins in the Cup. Maybe we used all our away luck on them. Whilst I agree our away form is poor this year and being propped up by our home form, when we look at the games concerned in the last 10, it's probably no big surprise. Without the last minute change of result against Spurs and Everton would have us lower mid table on away form (13th).

You talk about a couple more wins away. Liverpool have only won 4, United 5. It would have been good to get the win at Everton and maybe hold on for a draw at Spurs. That would have been three of your extra 6 points. So what we're saying is, in the context of the season, we'd have preferred to turn an additional loss into a win...

You could well be right about the cup games using up our "away luck". And its a valid point.

But they show that we're capable of results away. And 1 draw and 9 defeats in 10 is unacceptable really whatever way you look at it.

Our away wins were at West Ham (as usual) and Wolves right in the middle of our best form of the season.

You're right that there are a couple of games where we've been a bit unlucky. But again most of those were early doors when we were in banging form.

Really think its something we need to look at.

[Worthy4England]

In amongst the 9 defeats and 1 draw, we've had 3 away wins in the Cup. Maybe we used all our away luck on them. Whilst I agree our away form is poor this year and being propped up by our home form, when we look at the games concerned in the last 10, it's probably no big surprise. Without the last minute change of result against Spurs and Everton would have us lower mid table on away form (13th).

You talk about a couple more wins away. Liverpool have only won 4, United 5. It would have been good to get the win at Everton and maybe hold on for a draw at Spurs. That would have been three of your extra 6 points. So what we're saying is, in the context of the season, we'd have preferred to turn an additional loss into a win...

You could well be right about the cup games using up our "away luck". And its a valid point.

But they show that we're capable of results away. And 1 draw and 9 defeats in 10 is unacceptable really whatever way you look at it.

Our away wins were at West Ham (as usual) and Wolves right in the middle of our best form of the season.

You're right that there are a couple of games where we've been a bit unlucky. But again most of those were early doors when we were in banging form.

Really think its something we need to look at.

You are not looking at this in the context of the season.

Really good away form - Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United, Spurs. All > 20 points. No surprise, all chasing Champs League.

After that, we go from Everton with 19 points down to Wolves with 8 - so a gap of 11 points between 8 and 19. Holding on at Everton and White Hart Lane would have put us smack bang in the middle of that group.

So yes, disappointing that we're not, but hardly the end of the world either. The additional two wins over and above that, would have put us on 20 points, which would have been really impressive, in the context of the other Clubs away from home this year.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take any improvement, but we seem to be talking about 1 additional win and luck going our way (which I know we've had plenty of the other way round too)...

[BWFC_Insane]

In amongst the 9 defeats and 1 draw, we've had 3 away wins in the Cup. Maybe we used all our away luck on them. Whilst I agree our away form is poor this year and being propped up by our home form, when we look at the games concerned in the last 10, it's probably no big surprise. Without the last minute change of result against Spurs and Everton would have us lower mid table on away form (13th).

You talk about a couple more wins away. Liverpool have only won 4, United 5. It would have been good to get the win at Everton and maybe hold on for a draw at Spurs. That would have been three of your extra 6 points. So what we're saying is, in the context of the season, we'd have preferred to turn an additional loss into a win...

You could well be right about the cup games using up our "away luck". And its a valid point.

But they show that we're capable of results away. And 1 draw and 9 defeats in 10 is unacceptable really whatever way you look at it.

Our away wins were at West Ham (as usual) and Wolves right in the middle of our best form of the season.

You're right that there are a couple of games where we've been a bit unlucky. But again most of those were early doors when we were in banging form.

Really think its something we need to look at.

You are not looking at this in the context of the season.

Really good away form - Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United, Spurs. All > 20 points. No surprise, all chasing Champs League.

After that, we go from Everton with 19 points down to Wolves with 8 - so a gap of 11 points between 8 and 19. Holding on at Everton and White Hart Lane would have put us smack bang in the middle of that group.

So yes, disappointing that we're not, but hardly the end of the world either. The additional two wins over and above that, would have put us on 20 points, which would have been really impressive, in the context of the other Clubs away from home this year.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take any improvement, but we seem to be talking about 1 additional win and luck going our way (which I know we've had plenty of the other way round too)...

I don't get the lack of desire to improve though. Our home form is very good. So the big improvement that can be made is our away points total.

9 defeats and 1 draw in the last 10 can surely and must surely be seen as an issue and Coyle surely won't be happy with that?

[thebish]

Don't get me wrong, I'll take any improvement, but we seem to be talking about 1 additional win and luck going our way (which I know we've had plenty of the other way round too)...

I don't get the lack of desire to improve though. Our home form is very good. So the big improvement that can be made is our away points total.

9 defeats and 1 draw in the last 10 can surely and must surely be seen as an issue and Coyle surely won't be happy with that?

[BWFC_Insane]

Don't get me wrong, I'll take any improvement, but we seem to be talking about 1 additional win and luck going our way (which I know we've had plenty of the other way round too)...

I don't get the lack of desire to improve though. Our home form is very good. So the big improvement that can be made is our away points total.

9 defeats and 1 draw in the last 10 can surely and must surely be seen as an issue and Coyle surely won't be happy with that?

Fair enough. But I suppose I just don't like the excuses. We've not been great away from home. Lets improve it because who knows when we might need a few away points!

[thebish]

here's my best guess...

Coyle IS trying to improve it.... he's not happy with any defeat...

my guess is that he also wants to win more games and get more points - he might care just as much as any of us....

to suggest that Coyle is somehow deliberately giving away away points because he can't really be arsed is, I suspect, wide of the mark.

[BWFC_Insane]

here's my best guess...

Coyle IS trying to improve it.... he's not happy with any defeat...

my guess is that he also wants to win more games and get more points - he might care just as much as any of us....

to suggest that Coyle is somehow deliberately giving away away points because he can't really be arsed is, I suspect, wide of the mark.

No no, I fully agree.

Imagine Coyle was fuming last night. Just the fact that some of the posts on here seem to suggest we're fine just bumbling along as we were.

[thebish]

here's my best guess...

Coyle IS trying to improve it.... he's not happy with any defeat...

my guess is that he also wants to win more games and get more points - he might care just as much as any of us....

to suggest that Coyle is somehow deliberately giving away away points because he can't really be arsed is, I suspect, wide of the mark.

No no, I fully agree.

Imagine Coyle was fuming last night. Just the fact that some of the posts on here seem to suggest we're fine just bumbling along as we were.

I'm not sure that's quite true - what they are saying is that DESPITE some poorish away form - we're still doing staggeringly well for the resources we have... that's not quite the same.

[Worthy4England]

In amongst the 9 defeats and 1 draw, we've had 3 away wins in the Cup. Maybe we used all our away luck on them. Whilst I agree our away form is poor this year and being propped up by our home form, when we look at the games concerned in the last 10, it's probably no big surprise. Without the last minute change of result against Spurs and Everton would have us lower mid table on away form (13th).

You talk about a couple more wins away. Liverpool have only won 4, United 5. It would have been good to get the win at Everton and maybe hold on for a draw at Spurs. That would have been three of your extra 6 points. So what we're saying is, in the context of the season, we'd have preferred to turn an additional loss into a win...

You could well be right about the cup games using up our "away luck". And its a valid point.

But they show that we're capable of results away. And 1 draw and 9 defeats in 10 is unacceptable really whatever way you look at it.

Our away wins were at West Ham (as usual) and Wolves right in the middle of our best form of the season.

You're right that there are a couple of games where we've been a bit unlucky. But again most of those were early doors when we were in banging form.

Really think its something we need to look at.

You are not looking at this in the context of the season.

Really good away form - Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United, Spurs. All > 20 points. No surprise, all chasing Champs League.

After that, we go from Everton with 19 points down to Wolves with 8 - so a gap of 11 points between 8 and 19. Holding on at Everton and White Hart Lane would have put us smack bang in the middle of that group.

So yes, disappointing that we're not, but hardly the end of the world either. The additional two wins over and above that, would have put us on 20 points, which would have been really impressive, in the context of the other Clubs away from home this year.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take any improvement, but we seem to be talking about 1 additional win and luck going our way (which I know we've had plenty of the other way round too)...

I don't get the lack of desire to improve though. Our home form is very good. So the big improvement that can be made is our away points total.

9 defeats and 1 draw in the last 10 can surely and must surely be seen as an issue and Coyle surely won't be happy with that?

There isn't a lack of desire to improve.

I've mentioned a few times I agree that any improvement would be welcome. To get to excellent, we'd have needed to turn round the Spurs and Everton dropped points, and won one/two more games. That would put us on the same number of away wins as United.

It's all a question of how good we could get away in the context of this season's league. There have been 50 away wins from the 15 teams outside of the top 5. That's 3.33 wins per team. We have 2 and should have got another at Everton.

Draws average out at 4.8 per team. We have 5 and should have bagged a 6th at Spurs.

All I'm saying is, the thrust of your original post seemed to be suggesting, we should be exhibiting Champs League form away from home.

My view is that it's rather more marginal than that.

[Athers]

Was thinking about this last night

Away vs top half

D1 L8 - the draw was at Everton.
- We conceded late goals at Liverpool, Everton, United, Spurs.
- Did OK at Chelsea.
- Lost the game after 5 minutes at Man City.
- Stoke & Fulham we've been terrible
- Arsenal we got a man sent off and got beat.

Away vs bottom half
- Only beaten by Birmingham & Sunderland - Sunderland were a different proposition when we played them too.
- A few draws, could've got a win at Villa, West Brom.
- Newcastle we almost lost to 10 men in the last minute, but they're very Jekyll & Hyde at home.
- Still got Blackpool & Blackburn to play, especially Blackpool who are the worst home team in the division (although they outplayed us at the Reebok)


Not so easy to cut the division in half given closeness of points but it shows we have a platform to improve rather than the results being all over the place (e.g. a win at Arsenal, loss at Wigan). We also can't point to the late goals and say we've been unlucky any more than we could point to all the goals at home in the last minute and say they were lucky...

[BWFC_Insane]

In amongst the 9 defeats and 1 draw, we've had 3 away wins in the Cup. Maybe we used all our away luck on them. Whilst I agree our away form is poor this year and being propped up by our home form, when we look at the games concerned in the last 10, it's probably no big surprise. Without the last minute change of result against Spurs and Everton would have us lower mid table on away form (13th).

You talk about a couple more wins away. Liverpool have only won 4, United 5. It would have been good to get the win at Everton and maybe hold on for a draw at Spurs. That would have been three of your extra 6 points. So what we're saying is, in the context of the season, we'd have preferred to turn an additional loss into a win...

You could well be right about the cup games using up our "away luck". And its a valid point.

But they show that we're capable of results away. And 1 draw and 9 defeats in 10 is unacceptable really whatever way you look at it.

Our away wins were at West Ham (as usual) and Wolves right in the middle of our best form of the season.

You're right that there are a couple of games where we've been a bit unlucky. But again most of those were early doors when we were in banging form.

Really think its something we need to look at.

You are not looking at this in the context of the season.

Really good away form - Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United, Spurs. All > 20 points. No surprise, all chasing Champs League.

After that, we go from Everton with 19 points down to Wolves with 8 - so a gap of 11 points between 8 and 19. Holding on at Everton and White Hart Lane would have put us smack bang in the middle of that group.

So yes, disappointing that we're not, but hardly the end of the world either. The additional two wins over and above that, would have put us on 20 points, which would have been really impressive, in the context of the other Clubs away from home this year.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take any improvement, but we seem to be talking about 1 additional win and luck going our way (which I know we've had plenty of the other way round too)...

I don't get the lack of desire to improve though. Our home form is very good. So the big improvement that can be made is our away points total.

9 defeats and 1 draw in the last 10 can surely and must surely be seen as an issue and Coyle surely won't be happy with that?

There isn't a lack of desire to improve.

I've mentioned a few times I agree that any improvement would be welcome. To get to excellent, we'd have needed to turn round the Spurs and Everton dropped points, and won one/two more games. That would put us on the same number of away wins as United.

It's all a question of how good we could get away in the context of this season's league. There have been 50 away wins from the 15 teams outside of the top 5. That's 3.33 wins per team. We have 2 and should have got another at Everton.

Draws average out at 4.8 per team. We have 5 and should have bagged a 6th at Spurs.

All I'm saying is, the thrust of your original post seemed to be suggesting, we should be exhibiting Champs League form away from home.

My view is that it's rather more marginal than that.

This season it hasn't mattered W4E. Alls I'm saying is that if our away form is as bad next year and our home form takes a slight dip things may not be as rosy.

My fear as I've expressed before is that take Holden and Sturridge out the side as may well be next season and then take Cahill out and we look IMO not far off a bottom three side. I know people will give me abuse for saying that but its my opinion.

We looked like a bottom three side last night!

I think with the right few players added and perhaps a little more of a circumspect approach away from home we could do a little better. I'm not sure that there is much Coyle can do to change things for the Blackburn and Blackpool games this season and that is why IMO things need addressing in the summer.

[LiOC]

Anyone suggesting a 4-5-1, can you tell me who you'd suggest for it? Not being funny but personally feel our midfield being overran away could be due to the loss of holden, as we don't I've a replacement.
Are you suggesting dropping the captain? Or sturridge?!
Muamba, Davies, elmander, Cohen or Gardner in the middle?
Packing the midfield for me doesn't seem realistic...

[CrazyHorse]

Just the fact that some of the posts on here seem to suggest we're fine just bumbling along as we were.

If by bumbling along you mean consistent top half virtually all season and a shit-hot cup run then yes, we are fine just bumbling along. Give me that year on year.

Obviously our away form maybe should be better but y'know small steps and all that because it wasn't so long ago that our home form didn't exactly cut the mustard either.

[thebish]

This season it hasn't mattered W4E. Alls I'm saying is that if our away form is as bad next year and our home form takes a slight dip things may not be as rosy.

I think you are still missing Worthy's point. Worthy is suggesting that compared to other Premiership teams, our away form is NOT "as bad" as you imagine - and (in fact) is only a couple of scabby wins away from ManU/Arsenal-esque away form....

[Prufrock]

Still, 9 defeats in 10 suggests it has got a lot worse. That's half our away games, and one point. Perhaps we've been 'figured out'? For me it is as simple as the way we play. At home teams sit back and we and get in amongst them, pin them back, and apply pressure. Away, they come at us, our midfield get caught too far up and teams get to turn and run at our back 4. Our back are crucially awful at coping with this, Zat Knight in particular literally turns his back and runs away. All in all pressure pressure goals conceeded. Either play 4-5-1, or defend deeper and press less.

[Worthy4England]

This season it hasn't mattered W4E. Alls I'm saying is that if our away form is as bad next year and our home form takes a slight dip things may not be as rosy.

I think you are still missing Worthy's point. Worthy is suggesting that compared to other Premiership teams, our away form is NOT "as bad" as you imagine - and (in fact) is only a couple of scabby wins away from ManU/Arsenal-esque away form....

Pretty much that, aye, albeit we're 17th out of 20 on away form. Hold the scores after 89 minutes V Spurs and Everton, + one more win would have been pretty good @ 17 points.

I'm just saying it's all fairly marginal, rather than fcuk me it's a complete disaster.

BWFCI keeps quoting 9 losses and 1 Draw in the last 10 which is piss poor and needs addressing, but over the full season so far, it's not quite that bleak when compared to other teams and within the last 10 away games against Prem opposition, we've actually W3, D1 and L6.

So I'm pretty happy generally with the way things have panned out this season.

[BWFC_Insane]

This season it hasn't mattered W4E. Alls I'm saying is that if our away form is as bad next year and our home form takes a slight dip things may not be as rosy.

I think you are still missing Worthy's point. Worthy is suggesting that compared to other Premiership teams, our away form is NOT "as bad" as you imagine - and (in fact) is only a couple of scabby wins away from ManU/Arsenal-esque away form....

Pretty much that, aye, albeit we're 17th out of 20 on away form. Hold the scores after 89 minutes V Spurs and Everton, + one more win would have been pretty good @ 17 points.

I'm just saying it's all fairly marginal, rather than fcuk me it's a complete disaster.

BWFCI keeps quoting 9 losses and 1 Draw in the last 10 which is piss poor and needs addressing, but over the full season so far, it's not quite that bleak when compared to other teams and within the last 10 away games against Prem opposition, we've actually W3, D1 and L6.

So I'm pretty happy generally with the way things have panned out this season.

Aye but thats a bit like saying last season "If we scraped a few more wins from somewhere we'd not be 18th with 18 points from 18 played".

I don't get this whole hold the scores either, there are more home points we've won that way than away points we've lost.

We're quite possibly going to end the season in the bottom 3 for away results this season. That doesn't matter because of our home form this time round. But you don't want to keep relying on that IMO.

We're 17th in the league on aways. Nevermind the ifs buts and maybe's. Thats the stat that speaks for itself. Something that definitely can and should be improved. I'm perfectly happy with the season overall but can't say I'm particularly thrilled by this particular aspect. Nor am I looking forwards to Blackburn on Saturday!

[Worthy4England]

This season it hasn't mattered W4E. Alls I'm saying is that if our away form is as bad next year and our home form takes a slight dip things may not be as rosy.

I think you are still missing Worthy's point. Worthy is suggesting that compared to other Premiership teams, our away form is NOT "as bad" as you imagine - and (in fact) is only a couple of scabby wins away from ManU/Arsenal-esque away form....

Pretty much that, aye, albeit we're 17th out of 20 on away form. Hold the scores after 89 minutes V Spurs and Everton, + one more win would have been pretty good @ 17 points.

I'm just saying it's all fairly marginal, rather than fcuk me it's a complete disaster.

BWFCI keeps quoting 9 losses and 1 Draw in the last 10 which is piss poor and needs addressing, but over the full season so far, it's not quite that bleak when compared to other teams and within the last 10 away games against Prem opposition, we've actually W3, D1 and L6.

So I'm pretty happy generally with the way things have panned out this season.

Aye but thats a bit like saying last season "If we scraped a few more wins from somewhere we'd not be 18th with 18 points from 18 played".

I don't get this whole hold the scores either, there are more home points we've won that way than away points we've lost.

We're quite possibly going to end the season in the bottom 3 for away results this season. That doesn't matter because of our home form this time round. But you don't want to keep relying on that IMO.

We're 17th in the league on aways. Nevermind the ifs buts and maybe's. Thats the stat that speaks for itself. Something that definitely can and should be improved. I'm perfectly happy with the season overall but can't say I'm particularly thrilled by this particular aspect. Nor am I looking forwards to Blackburn on Saturday!

Mr Pot, Mr Kettle here.

I don't get this whole out of the last 10 away games bit either.

Looking at the current league table - which is the ultimate arbiter, we're 8th. Never mind the ifs buts and maybe's (other than the awful and fairly random punctuation).

League Table is the only stat that counts.

[BWFC_Insane]

This season it hasn't mattered W4E. Alls I'm saying is that if our away form is as bad next year and our home form takes a slight dip things may not be as rosy.

I think you are still missing Worthy's point. Worthy is suggesting that compared to other Premiership teams, our away form is NOT "as bad" as you imagine - and (in fact) is only a couple of scabby wins away from ManU/Arsenal-esque away form....

Pretty much that, aye, albeit we're 17th out of 20 on away form. Hold the scores after 89 minutes V Spurs and Everton, + one more win would have been pretty good @ 17 points.

I'm just saying it's all fairly marginal, rather than fcuk me it's a complete disaster.

BWFCI keeps quoting 9 losses and 1 Draw in the last 10 which is piss poor and needs addressing, but over the full season so far, it's not quite that bleak when compared to other teams and within the last 10 away games against Prem opposition, we've actually W3, D1 and L6.

So I'm pretty happy generally with the way things have panned out this season.

Aye but thats a bit like saying last season "If we scraped a few more wins from somewhere we'd not be 18th with 18 points from 18 played".

I don't get this whole hold the scores either, there are more home points we've won that way than away points we've lost.

We're quite possibly going to end the season in the bottom 3 for away results this season. That doesn't matter because of our home form this time round. But you don't want to keep relying on that IMO.

We're 17th in the league on aways. Nevermind the ifs buts and maybe's. Thats the stat that speaks for itself. Something that definitely can and should be improved. I'm perfectly happy with the season overall but can't say I'm particularly thrilled by this particular aspect. Nor am I looking forwards to Blackburn on Saturday!

Mr Pot, Mr Kettle here.

I don't get this whole out of the last 10 away games bit either.

Looking at the current league table - which is the ultimate arbiter, we're 8th. Never mind the ifs buts and maybe's (other than the awful and fairly random punctuation).

League Table is the only stat that counts.

The last 10 premiership games is relevant because thats current form. Its not just some stat plucked out of mid air. Yes we had some cup wins, but lets put into perspective that one was against Wigan's reserves and the other was against a Fulham side who were not in the best form at the time but was still a good result.

However, I don't see why there shouldn't be any criticism of what is a shite away record IMO. Its great we're 8th and I hope we finish there and do as well next season. But I have concerns for next season and the away record currently is an indicator of that.

We'll see.

Lets hope we all enjoy Blackburn eh?