Today I'm angry about.....

[CrazyHorse]

The myth that the majority of them are just "dossing around getting hammered" is simply that a myth.

Poppycock.

Nice reasoned response there. Mind if they do nothing and these degress are so easy, then there really is no excuse for someone not to obtain one, working or not. Couple of hours a week for a few months and I'm sure anyone would be ready for at least a BSc in Physics or somesuch!

I've never, ever said they were easy. I'm sure the 12 hours a week hard studying and getting out of bed at 1pm everyday really takes it out of the poor lambs.
Seriously though, If you genuinely think that the majority of students don't doss around and get hammered then you've clearly never met or worked with or even spoken to one. Just about every student or more specifically ex-student I've ever met loves to boast about that fact.

[Lord Kangana]

People who crticise those who are getting an education or have had an education. It angers me.

Education is a good thing. Academic pursuits are also a good thing. It doesn't mean that folk who aren't degree educated or that are "non-academic" are any worse, of course not. But the bitterness about education still confuses me.

A lot of employers now are only interested in graduates. If you haven't got a degree your options are limited. You can't blame kids who want to have those options and go to University. The myth that the majority of them are just "dossing around getting hammered" is simply that a myth. Most work hard and have to in order to prevail. Of course some do not, but then in the working world there are plenty of examples as well.

The phrase "bloody students" grates. One of those "bloody students" may well one day perfect a new surgery that will save your life, or they may invent a cancer busting drug. Ultimately like everyone else they are living in the world as it is, not a fictional "in my day..." world that seems to be invented by some folk on here.

I've interviewed some right numpties, degree educated and not. And both sides of the fence have some issues. But on the whole ignorance and lack of understanding only seems to come from one side!

I have no problems with those who go and actually learn, its the knobs tearing up streets to protect something they clearly have not got an inkling about I object to!!
Oh right they don't get hammered why is the subsidised student bar so feckin popular then?

There were better deals in town for ale most nights than could be had down the union bar. And it was shit beer anyway. I reckon I went in ours about 5 times in my 3 years. Don't think it was subsidised either. It was called The Free Nelson Mandela and George Jackson Now Bar. Or something.

[BWFC_Insane]

People who crticise those who are getting an education or have had an education. It angers me.

Education is a good thing. Academic pursuits are also a good thing. It doesn't mean that folk who aren't degree educated or that are "non-academic" are any worse, of course not. But the bitterness about education still confuses me.

A lot of employers now are only interested in graduates. If you haven't got a degree your options are limited. You can't blame kids who want to have those options and go to University. The myth that the majority of them are just "dossing around getting hammered" is simply that a myth. Most work hard and have to in order to prevail. Of course some do not, but then in the working world there are plenty of examples as well.

The phrase "bloody students" grates. One of those "bloody students" may well one day perfect a new surgery that will save your life, or they may invent a cancer busting drug. Ultimately like everyone else they are living in the world as it is, not a fictional "in my day..." world that seems to be invented by some folk on here.

I've interviewed some right numpties, degree educated and not. And both sides of the fence have some issues. But on the whole ignorance and lack of understanding only seems to come from one side!

I have no problems with those who go and actually learn, its the knobs tearing up streets to protect something they clearly have not got an inkling about I object to!!
Oh right they don't get hammered why is the subsidised student bar so feckin popular then?

I'd say that if you go out on a Friday or Saturday night there will be as many "non students" getting wasted as there will students.

As far as protesting goes, I'd say you're average student has little or no interest in politics or protesting. Sure some are very politically active, but you're average ones are basically totally uninterested, just like your average population as a whole!

[Hoboh]

People who crticise those who are getting an education or have had an education. It angers me.

Education is a good thing. Academic pursuits are also a good thing. It doesn't mean that folk who aren't degree educated or that are "non-academic" are any worse, of course not. But the bitterness about education still confuses me.

A lot of employers now are only interested in graduates. If you haven't got a degree your options are limited. You can't blame kids who want to have those options and go to University. The myth that the majority of them are just "dossing around getting hammered" is simply that a myth. Most work hard and have to in order to prevail. Of course some do not, but then in the working world there are plenty of examples as well.

The phrase "bloody students" grates. One of those "bloody students" may well one day perfect a new surgery that will save your life, or they may invent a cancer busting drug. Ultimately like everyone else they are living in the world as it is, not a fictional "in my day..." world that seems to be invented by some folk on here.

I've interviewed some right numpties, degree educated and not. And both sides of the fence have some issues. But on the whole ignorance and lack of understanding only seems to come from one side!

I have no problems with those who go and actually learn, its the knobs tearing up streets to protect something they clearly have not got an inkling about I object to!!
Oh right they don't get hammered why is the subsidised student bar so feckin popular then?

I'd say that if you go out on a Friday or Saturday night there will be as many "non students" getting wasted as there will students.

As far as protesting goes, I'd say you're average student has little or no interest in politics or protesting. Sure some are very politically active, but you're average ones are basically totally uninterested, just like your average population as a whole!

Then you'd have no problem with me having the tools in the street the other week shot and the commie student union disbanded and be determined a terrorist organization?

[jmjhb]

A lot of employers now are only interested in graduates. If you haven't got a degree your options are limited

This isn't a good thing. A degree should reflect the cream of the population. Not that 95% have to have one because they can't get a job without.

Why should it reflect the "cream"? Because it used to? I can't think of one good argument that says that less people should be educated. I don't buy the whole "devaluing" argument. Skills required by employers have changed. There are fewer jobs that require manual or basic non technical skills sets. Therefore whether degree educated or trained in a different way most jobs will require some form of higher education or specialised training. Thats the world we live in, we can't go backwards!

It should reflect the "cream" as a differentiator. Not because it used to. Having a decent level of general education to get jobs is what GCSE's are about. 'A' levels being a higher more focused set of examinations that allow people to focus on a less broad curriculum and excel in those areas they pick, to provide some differentiation and specialisation above GCSE's and Degrees being even more focused and much more of a differentiator. All we've done, is devalued the Degree to a point where's it's become yesterday's 'O' levels. i.e. the minimum most people need to get an interview to flip burgers at McD's

I got mine about 13 years ago. The standard of it was quite appalling compared to the O levels I sat donkey's ago. Served a purpose though - opened a few doors to job interviews.

Completely arse about face approach to education.

As a recent graduate (also, I believe I was in the year above Prufrock at school), I've come to this conclusion. The vast majority of degrees these days are utterly worthless in my opinion, unless they're vocational, and don't give me this bollocks about it teaching you 'critical' skills, because in many cases whether or not you'll get a job will be decided by how many social groups you were in at uni because you are "good with people". How ridiculous.

Certainly, go if you want to learn (and are interested) in the subject, but don't expect to be gainfully employed by the end of it. The fact that you need a 2:1 to work in a frigging call centre irks me these days. 3-4 years of tertiary education, and you're working in a warehouse? Yeah, those critical skills you learned at uni certainly were useful, and you've put yourself £20K in debt to boot. Excellent.

I'd also blame my school in this, as they made it sound like going to university was the correct and right option in life without actually giving us decent career guidance - as a 16/17-year old I had no idea whatsoever what to do in life, and in hindsight, I wouldn't have gone to uni. Certainly, in this country, there seems to be a drag into tertiary education for people who see it as a necessity without actually placing much thought into it.

Certainly, a university degree is no longer an accurate measure of intelligence.

[superjohnmcginlay]

The myth that the majority of them are just "dossing around getting hammered" is simply that a myth.

Poppycock.

Nice reasoned response there. Mind if they do nothing and these degress are so easy, then there really is no excuse for someone not to obtain one, working or not. Couple of hours a week for a few months and I'm sure anyone would be ready for at least a BSc in Physics or somesuch!

I've never, ever said they were easy. I'm sure the 12 hours a week hard studying and getting out of bed at 1pm everyday really takes it out of the poor lambs.
Seriously though, If you genuinely think that the majority of students don't doss around and get hammered then you've clearly never met or worked with or even spoken to one. Just about every student or more specifically ex-student I've ever met loves to boast about that fact.

It's very true. I can remember fook all about it. I know where I was but that's about it.

[Lord Kangana]

It was used as a tool by the previous two governments to massage youth unemployemnt figures.

I'm all for equality of opportunity though. Perhaps if vocational qualifications weren't so shit there would be a viable option. I see this in my field all the time. They teach kids the theory of cooking. They very rarely teach them useful practical skills. This reflects the move from the old Cit and Guilds to the NVQ. There are moves to reverse this (started by the last government as it happens). Wouldn't be a moment too soon.

Can you imagine teaching a brickie or plumber the theory of what they're doing with very little practical application?

[thebish]

Seriously though, If you genuinely think that the majority of students don't doss around and get hammered then you've clearly never met or worked with or even spoken to one. Just about every student or more specifically ex-student I've ever met loves to boast about that fact.

I just asked my son about this - as he is currently at University (Teesside) - and he says not...

not a very "scientific" survey, I'll grant you - and I suspect none of us really knows..

however, to accept that the majority of students doss about and get hammered - because they TELL you they do - is like accepting that every bloke is a stud in bed because they tell you so... it's quite clearly "uncool" to say you are a total swat and have your nose in a book all day at their age - so I'd take the boasting with a wee pinch of salt...

[superjohnmcginlay]

Seriously though, If you genuinely think that the majority of students don't doss around and get hammered then you've clearly never met or worked with or even spoken to one. Just about every student or more specifically ex-student I've ever met loves to boast about that fact.

I just asked my son about this - as he is currently at University (Teesside) - and he says not...

not a very "scientific" survey, I'll grant you - and I suspect none of us really knows..

however, to accept that the majority of students doss about and get hammered - because they TELL you they do - is like accepting that every bloke is a stud in bed because they tell you so... it's quite clearly "uncool" to say you are a total swat and have your nose in a book all day at their age - so I'd take the boasting with a wee pinch of salt...

Why? A number of us on here went, we know what it's like. I was utterly twatted a lot of the time but still managed to get it done. I think it might be down to how quick you are to pick things up. Some have to study hard to get their head around the subject and what needs to be done, others can pick it up easily and therefore have more time to doss around and get hammered.

[CrazyHorse]

Seriously though, If you genuinely think that the majority of students don't doss around and get hammered then you've clearly never met or worked with or even spoken to one. Just about every student or more specifically ex-student I've ever met loves to boast about that fact.

I just asked my son about this - as he is currently at University (Teesside) - and he says not...

not a very "scientific" survey, I'll grant you - and I suspect none of us really knows..

however, to accept that the majority of students doss about and get hammered - because they TELL you they do - is like accepting that every bloke is a stud in bed because they tell you so... it's quite clearly "uncool" to say you are a total swat and have your nose in a book all day at their age - so I'd take the boasting with a wee pinch of salt...

You might take it with a pinch of salt. I'm not that naive.

In fact scratch that; you're not that naive either.

[superjohnmcginlay]

And your son may just be trying to keep his dad sweet?

"Yeah! I'm really trying dad. Studying hard everyday" etc.

[thebish]

And your son may just be trying to keep his dad sweet?

"Yeah! I'm really trying dad. Studying hard everyday" etc.

my son aside...

University life has changed beyond recognition. They are not the places they were when I went - when a student could completely doss years one and two with little consequence - my first TWO years at Warwick counted for 0% of my degree - it literally didn't really matter what I did in them... that is not the case now - they are far more boring places than they ever were...

I chose my degree course subjects within the four disciplines that my degree covered in years one and two PURELY by the criterion that they didn't have lectures on Monday or Friday.

I got a 2ii for, basically, 2 terms work.

my son - on the other hand - just having completed year 1 has already had assessed project work that counts towards his final degree.

now... he is on holiday - which spans 4 months!! june, july, aug, sept!! cut that down to one - and he could do his degree in half the time....

[jmjhb]

And your son may just be trying to keep his dad sweet?

"Yeah! I'm really trying dad. Studying hard everyday" etc.

my son aside...

University life has changed beyond recognition. They are not the places they were when I went - when a student could completely doss years one and two with little consequence - my first TWO years at Warwick counted for 0% of my degree - it literally didn't really matter what I did in them... that is not the case now - they are far more boring places than they ever were...

I chose my degree course subjects within the four disciplines that my degree covered in years one and two PURELY by the criterion that they didn't have lectures on Monday or Friday.

I got a 2ii for, basically, 2 terms work.

my son - on the other hand - just having completed year 1 has already had assessed project work that counts towards his final degree.

now... he is on holiday - which spans 4 months!! june, july, aug, sept!! cut that down to one - and he could do his degree in half the time....

Well, in most cases, the 3rd year is worth 66.6% so you can still doss for the first two years, work hard in the final two terms and still get a 2:1. Things haven't changed really.

[William the White]

And your son may just be trying to keep his dad sweet?

"Yeah! I'm really trying dad. Studying hard everyday" etc.

my son aside...

University life has changed beyond recognition. They are not the places they were when I went - when a student could completely doss years one and two with little consequence - my first TWO years at Warwick counted for 0% of my degree - it literally didn't really matter what I did in them... that is not the case now - they are far more boring places than they ever were...

I chose my degree course subjects within the four disciplines that my degree covered in years one and two PURELY by the criterion that they didn't have lectures on Monday or Friday.

I got a 2ii for, basically, 2 terms work.

my son - on the other hand - just having completed year 1 has already had assessed project work that counts towards his final degree.

now... he is on holiday - which spans 4 months!! june, july, aug, sept!! cut that down to one - and he could do his degree in half the time....

Very unusual for first year work to count towards the degree.

But absolutely no question that students work harder than I had to. And nearly all of them have to do paid work - no grants and loans not enough to live on. Some have to do so much that they underachieve with their studies. Not easy, not a doss.

There'll be some hard drinking some time - but the SU bar (I wonder who hoboh thinks subsidises it?) isn't packed any night.

[thebish]

And your son may just be trying to keep his dad sweet?

"Yeah! I'm really trying dad. Studying hard everyday" etc.

my son aside...

University life has changed beyond recognition. They are not the places they were when I went - when a student could completely doss years one and two with little consequence - my first TWO years at Warwick counted for 0% of my degree - it literally didn't really matter what I did in them... that is not the case now - they are far more boring places than they ever were...

I chose my degree course subjects within the four disciplines that my degree covered in years one and two PURELY by the criterion that they didn't have lectures on Monday or Friday.

I got a 2ii for, basically, 2 terms work.

my son - on the other hand - just having completed year 1 has already had assessed project work that counts towards his final degree.

now... he is on holiday - which spans 4 months!! june, july, aug, sept!! cut that down to one - and he could do his degree in half the time....

Very unusual for first year work to count towards the degree.

But absolutely no question that students work harder than I had to. And nearly all of them have to do paid work - no grants and loans not enough to live on. Some have to do so much that they underachieve with their studies. Not easy, not a doss.

There'll be some hard drinking some time - but the SU bar (I wonder who hoboh thinks subsidises it?) isn't packed any night.

indeed there is hard drinking - but (I'd wager), as you imply, nothing like on the scale that it was in the 70s and 80s (I don't know about the 60s)

my son appears to be teetotal (if not - he hides it very well!) - but last time we visited - there was an interesting piece of "artwork" on the house wall - a huge erect penis made out of budweiser bottles...

[Prufrock]

A lot of employers now are only interested in graduates. If you haven't got a degree your options are limited

This isn't a good thing. A degree should reflect the cream of the population. Not that 95% have to have one because they can't get a job without.

Why should it reflect the "cream"? Because it used to? I can't think of one good argument that says that less people should be educated. I don't buy the whole "devaluing" argument. Skills required by employers have changed. There are fewer jobs that require manual or basic non technical skills sets. Therefore whether degree educated or trained in a different way most jobs will require some form of higher education or specialised training. Thats the world we live in, we can't go backwards!

It should reflect the "cream" as a differentiator. Not because it used to. Having a decent level of general education to get jobs is what GCSE's are about. 'A' levels being a higher more focused set of examinations that allow people to focus on a less broad curriculum and excel in those areas they pick, to provide some differentiation and specialisation above GCSE's and Degrees being even more focused and much more of a differentiator. All we've done, is devalued the Degree to a point where's it's become yesterday's 'O' levels. i.e. the minimum most people need to get an interview to flip burgers at McD's

I got mine about 13 years ago. The standard of it was quite appalling compared to the O levels I sat donkey's ago. Served a purpose though - opened a few doors to job interviews.

Completely arse about face approach to education.

As a recent graduate (also, I believe I was in the year above Prufrock at school), I've come to this conclusion. The vast majority of degrees these days are utterly worthless in my opinion, unless they're vocational, and don't give me this bollocks about it teaching you 'critical' skills, because in many cases whether or not you'll get a job will be decided by how many social groups you were in at uni because you are "good with people". How ridiculous.

Certainly, go if you want to learn (and are interested) in the subject, but don't expect to be gainfully employed by the end of it. The fact that you need a 2:1 to work in a frigging call centre irks me these days. 3-4 years of tertiary education, and you're working in a warehouse? Yeah, those critical skills you learned at uni certainly were useful, and you've put yourself £20K in debt to boot. Excellent.

I'd also blame my school in this, as they made it sound like going to university was the correct and right option in life without actually giving us decent career guidance - as a 16/17-year old I had no idea whatsoever what to do in life, and in hindsight, I wouldn't have gone to uni. Certainly, in this country, there seems to be a drag into tertiary education for people who see it as a necessity without actually placing much thought into it.

Certainly, a university degree is no longer an accurate measure of intelligence.

Go on then, who are you?

On the uni thing, I think a lot of it depends what you want to do. They certainly aren't the gold standard distinction they used to be. That said most folk aren't stupid, even now a 'good' degree from a 'good' university isn't that common. Out of interest jmjhb, what would you have done otherwise?

As for the boozing, maybe two thirds of the time you have time for two maybe three heavy nights per week (not necessarily Sat and Sun, no deals then) but there is still a fair amount of work to be done, though it wasn't 'hard'. The other third of the time, essay deadlines and exam revision is mental, like 15 hours a day stuff. That was hard work. That plus holiday jobs plus no fecking money mean it isn't an easy life, though it isn't that hard either.

[Bruce Rioja]

Excuse me. Would you lot mind papping on about the varying merits of individual universities someplace else? You aren't getting angry about any of them, you're just being wankerishly measured. Absolutely unacceptable! Do you hear? This is the ANGRY thread and today I'm angry because the sole of my left Marks and Spencers slipper appears to have worn through despite it only ever having come into contact with carpet, wood, and the occasional trip out to the car!

[bobo the clown]

This is the ANGRY thread and today I'm angry because the sole of my left Marks and Spencers slipper appears to have worn through despite it only ever having come into contact with carpet, wood, and the occasional trip out to the car!

.... & you clearly walk to the left way more than the right which may also be reason to be angry !!

[thebish]

Excuse me. Would you lot mind papping on about the varying merits of individual universities someplace else? You aren't getting angry about any of them, you're just being wankerishly measured. Absolutely unacceptable! Do you hear? This is the ANGRY thread and today I'm angry because the sole of my left Marks and Spencers slipper appears to have worn through despite it only ever having come into contact with carpet, wood, and the occasional trip out to the car!

marks and spencer slippers??? and you accuse others of being wankerish!!!

[Worthy4England]

my son - on the other hand - just having completed year 1 has already had assessed project work that counts towards his final degree.

Well yes. I can see that, I had to turn in papers over all three years.

I've come to the conclusion that they were so when someone says "What are you actually equipping the students with?", they can point to a pile of work three feet deep and say "Look, that's everything we've taught them."

I had a full time day job for most of my third year...

I actually feel sorry for the people that are being dragged through the system. Plenty of them are probably bright and articulate (well the ones that don't post on here anyhow), let down by the pile of dross that is the educational system.