Today I'm angry about.....

[Bruce Rioja]

Folk on the radio making stupid ill informed statements re Teachers striking. "What they complaining about they get loadsa holidays". FFS!

Look I'm not in favour of striking really, especially in this case. But its the above mentality that we really need to stamp out in this country!

And BWFC-I demonstrates perfectly just how out of touch teachers are with the world for which they're supposed to be preparing their pupils/students.

Hey I'm not a teacher.

Point being that whatever holidays they get has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation. You keep bashing the public sector/teachers/nurses whoever you like and saying they've got an easy ride etc. My question is if that is the case why aren't you a teacher or a nurse, I'm sure you'd look fetching in the uniform!

I worked in the public sector until the age of 19, and after continually being told to slow down my workrate, and that I was putting people's noses out of joint by my application, this coming from those in supervisory positions, I realised that I couldn't take any further part in the absolute charade that puts itself forward as being local governance and 'authority'. So, when did I "bash" nurses?

[BWFC_Insane]

Folk on the radio making stupid ill informed statements re Teachers striking. "What they complaining about they get loadsa holidays". FFS!

Look I'm not in favour of striking really, especially in this case. But its the above mentality that we really need to stamp out in this country!

And BWFC-I demonstrates perfectly just how out of touch teachers are with the world for which they're supposed to be preparing their pupils/students.

Hey I'm not a teacher.

Point being that whatever holidays they get has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation. You keep bashing the public sector/teachers/nurses whoever you like and saying they've got an easy ride etc. My question is if that is the case why aren't you a teacher or a nurse, I'm sure you'd look fetching in the uniform!

I worked in the public sector until the age of 19, and after continually being told to slow down my workrate, and that I was putting people's noses out of joint by my application, this coming from those in supervisory positions, I realised that I couldn't take any further part in the absolute charade that puts itself forward as being local governance and 'authority'. So, when did I "bash" nurses?

Right. Ok. I've worked across both sectors and my experience is that on both sides there are completely lazy feckless muppets. I would also say that in my experience and again you can only go off your own experiences more is demanded from folk in the public sector than the private but that obviously very much depends on where you work. What I would say is that its harder to get rid of the useless lazy muppets in the public sector, however that has somewhat improved. There is a cultural difference though and I'd say that revolves more around the hierachy. For example decision making is much much much harder in the NHS and rightly requires a lot more input from a lot more sources than say it is for Tesco's. Thats just the nature of the beast, and a result of what is at stake!

[bobo the clown]

Folk on the radio making stupid ill informed statements re Teachers striking. "What they complaining about they get loadsa holidays". FFS!

Look I'm not in favour of striking really, especially in this case. But its the above mentality that we really need to stamp out in this country!

Oh ..... do they NOT get loads of holidays then ?

My bad, coz I always thought they did.

Officially yes.

My wife is a teacher.

She leaves home at 07.40 and arrives at school at 08.00

She works from then until 17.15 when she leaves to pick up my daughter from school. 4 nights out of 5 she brings work home and again at weekends she will spend half a day working. She NEVER takes lunch breaks.

In the summer holidays she spends the first week in school finishing work for that academic year and the last week is spent there in preparation for the coming academic year.

She is directed to attend meetings in the evenings (twice this week she has returned home after 21.30) and receives no extra pay for any of it.

I like to tease my wife about her holiday entitlement but in reality she gets to spend very little of it 'relaxing'

Next year she will have chalked up her 25th year of working for the same education authority. In private industry she would be afforded a dinner dance in her honour and some sort of financial recognition for her effort.

Instead she, and her vocational peers will be villified by the press and government for 'holding the country to ransom'.

She isn't striking today. Her union isn't involved. She is keeping the school open for those kids who have teachers in.

But should she be required she would do. And I would applaud her decision to. Too many holidays? Pah!

Yup - and don't forget after the school clubs teachers are required to run, ENDLESS reports, not to mention stroppy, unreasonable parents and teaching complete brats who will do their upmost to push you to the limits and make you react. Oh, and the dreaded OFSTED...

My job isn't as intense as Mrs Enfields cos i teach a subject that doesn't require marking or as much detailed lesson prep plus i am part time, but for the many teachers i know what Gary describes is pretty standard.

This is said with respect to you both, honestly it is .... but haven't you just described "a job" ?

We get told by the teachers they want to be treated as professionals. What you've just described is what normal professionals do as a matter of course.

... and they DO get humungously long holidays.

[BWFC_Insane]

Folk on the radio making stupid ill informed statements re Teachers striking. "What they complaining about they get loadsa holidays". FFS!

Look I'm not in favour of striking really, especially in this case. But its the above mentality that we really need to stamp out in this country!

Oh ..... do they NOT get loads of holidays then ?

My bad, coz I always thought they did.

Officially yes.

My wife is a teacher.

She leaves home at 07.40 and arrives at school at 08.00

She works from then until 17.15 when she leaves to pick up my daughter from school. 4 nights out of 5 she brings work home and again at weekends she will spend half a day working. She NEVER takes lunch breaks.

In the summer holidays she spends the first week in school finishing work for that academic year and the last week is spent there in preparation for the coming academic year.

She is directed to attend meetings in the evenings (twice this week she has returned home after 21.30) and receives no extra pay for any of it.

I like to tease my wife about her holiday entitlement but in reality she gets to spend very little of it 'relaxing'

Next year she will have chalked up her 25th year of working for the same education authority. In private industry she would be afforded a dinner dance in her honour and some sort of financial recognition for her effort.

Instead she, and her vocational peers will be villified by the press and government for 'holding the country to ransom'.

She isn't striking today. Her union isn't involved. She is keeping the school open for those kids who have teachers in.

But should she be required she would do. And I would applaud her decision to. Too many holidays? Pah!

Yup - and don't forget after the school clubs teachers are required to run, ENDLESS reports, not to mention stroppy, unreasonable parents and teaching complete brats who will do their upmost to push you to the limits and make you react. Oh, and the dreaded OFSTED...

My job isn't as intense as Mrs Enfields cos i teach a subject that doesn't require marking or as much detailed lesson prep plus i am part time, but for the many teachers i know what Gary describes is pretty standard.

This is said with respect to you both, honestly it is .... but haven't you just described "a job" ?

We get told by the teachers they want to be treated as professionals. What you've just described is what normal professionals do as a matter of course.

... and they DO get humungously long holidays.

Bobo the point your missing is that whilst its a "job" in this country a few years back we suffered from a massive shortage of teachers, because nobody wanted to do the "job". And who can blame them? I wouldn't fancy being sat in inner London somewhere teaching a class of 30 teenagers. Those that went into teaching went into it with the understanding of some of the "perks" and "benefits" that job offered. One of those was the pension scheme and terms.

Now that is being taken away.

What "irks" teachers and public sector workers in general is as Enfield points out there are no "perks" in the public sector like bonuses, backhanders, "gifts", paid for piss ups oops I mean networking opportunities, etc. A lot of these teachers who we desperately needed could easily have gone and worked elsewhere for more money. But they chose to teach for the reasons outlined etc.

[Gary the Enfield]

Folk on the radio making stupid ill informed statements re Teachers striking. "What they complaining about they get loadsa holidays". FFS!

Look I'm not in favour of striking really, especially in this case. But its the above mentality that we really need to stamp out in this country!

Oh ..... do they NOT get loads of holidays then ?

My bad, coz I always thought they did.

Officially yes.

My wife is a teacher.

She leaves home at 07.40 and arrives at school at 08.00

She works from then until 17.15 when she leaves to pick up my daughter from school. 4 nights out of 5 she brings work home and again at weekends she will spend half a day working. She NEVER takes lunch breaks.

In the summer holidays she spends the first week in school finishing work for that academic year and the last week is spent there in preparation for the coming academic year.

She is directed to attend meetings in the evenings (twice this week she has returned home after 21.30) and receives no extra pay for any of it.

I like to tease my wife about her holiday entitlement but in reality she gets to spend very little of it 'relaxing'

Next year she will have chalked up her 25th year of working for the same education authority. In private industry she would be afforded a dinner dance in her honour and some sort of financial recognition for her effort.

Instead she, and her vocational peers will be villified by the press and government for 'holding the country to ransom'.

She isn't striking today. Her union isn't involved. She is keeping the school open for those kids who have teachers in.

But should she be required she would do. And I would applaud her decision to. Too many holidays? Pah!

Yup - and don't forget after the school clubs teachers are required to run, ENDLESS reports, not to mention stroppy, unreasonable parents and teaching complete brats who will do their upmost to push you to the limits and make you react. Oh, and the dreaded OFSTED...

My job isn't as intense as Mrs Enfields cos i teach a subject that doesn't require marking or as much detailed lesson prep plus i am part time, but for the many teachers i know what Gary describes is pretty standard.

This is said with respect to you both, honestly it is .... but haven't you just described "a job" ?

We get told by the teachers they want to be treated as professionals. What you've just described is what normal professionals do as a matter of course.

... and they DO get humungously long holidays.

It is a job. But without getting too involved in the politics how would you feel if the objects of your attention, say a project you were working on, suddenly sh*t itself/ Made itself unavailable/ refused to be worked on/ made it impossible to change due to pages being missing. Or if the client's representative decided you were shit at your job purely because they didn't understand what you did and stood at the doors to your office telling all who walked past that ''they could do a better job than you'' and ''look at the massive holidays you get''

The problem with Teachers and Nurses etc. is there is no short term end product. People without children don't get to see their value. There are shit teachers, of course there are, but as an investment in the future, most of them are worth their weight in gold.

So it is a job. But it's a vocation too.

[CrazyHorse]

Bobo the point your missing is that whilst its a "job" in this country a few years back we suffered from a massive shortage of teachers, because nobody wanted to do the "job". And who can blame them? I wouldn't fancy being sat in inner London somewhere teaching a class of 30 teenagers. Those that went into teaching went into it with the understanding of some of the "perks" and "benefits" that job offered. One of those was the pension scheme and terms.

Now that is being taken away.

What "irks" teachers and public sector workers in general is as Enfield points out there are no "perks" in the public sector like bonuses, backhanders, "gifts", paid for piss ups oops I mean networking opportunities, etc. A lot of these teachers who we desperately needed could easily have gone and worked elsewhere for more money. But they chose to teach for the reasons outlined etc.

Congratulations, you're now the 1,000,000 person to use this bullshit argument in the last 7 days.
Frankly I think it's disgusting that the promised pension benefits are to be changed but let's stop pretending that the only reason teachers (and other civil servants) are in these jobs in the first place is because of the so called perks.

[BWFC_Insane]

Bobo the point your missing is that whilst its a "job" in this country a few years back we suffered from a massive shortage of teachers, because nobody wanted to do the "job". And who can blame them? I wouldn't fancy being sat in inner London somewhere teaching a class of 30 teenagers. Those that went into teaching went into it with the understanding of some of the "perks" and "benefits" that job offered. One of those was the pension scheme and terms.

Now that is being taken away.

What "irks" teachers and public sector workers in general is as Enfield points out there are no "perks" in the public sector like bonuses, backhanders, "gifts", paid for piss ups oops I mean networking opportunities, etc. A lot of these teachers who we desperately needed could easily have gone and worked elsewhere for more money. But they chose to teach for the reasons outlined etc.

Congratulations, you're now the 1,000,000 person to use this bullshit argument in the last 7 days.
Frankly I think it's disgusting that the promised pension benefits are to be changed but let's stop pretending that the only reason teachers (and other civil servants) are in these jobs in the first place is because of the so called perks.

Clearly not the only reason. But you can't dispute that we had a massive shortage of teachers and benefits like clearing student loans alongside the pension scheme etc were the only way that deficit started to be adressed.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 106304015/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CrazyHorse]

Bobo the point your missing is that whilst its a "job" in this country a few years back we suffered from a massive shortage of teachers, because nobody wanted to do the "job". And who can blame them? I wouldn't fancy being sat in inner London somewhere teaching a class of 30 teenagers. Those that went into teaching went into it with the understanding of some of the "perks" and "benefits" that job offered. One of those was the pension scheme and terms.

Now that is being taken away.

What "irks" teachers and public sector workers in general is as Enfield points out there are no "perks" in the public sector like bonuses, backhanders, "gifts", paid for piss ups oops I mean networking opportunities, etc. A lot of these teachers who we desperately needed could easily have gone and worked elsewhere for more money. But they chose to teach for the reasons outlined etc.

Congratulations, you're now the 1,000,000 person to use this bullshit argument in the last 7 days.
Frankly I think it's disgusting that the promised pension benefits are to be changed but let's stop pretending that the only reason teachers (and other civil servants) are in these jobs in the first place is because of the so called perks.

Clearly not the only reason. But you can't dispute that we had a massive shortage of teachers and benefits like clearing student loans alongside the pension scheme etc were the only way that deficit started to be adressed.

I can't dispute it, no. But like I said, IMO it's disgusting to change a person's agreed T&Cs but there you go. Shit happens.

[Bruce Rioja]

Folk on the radio making stupid ill informed statements re Teachers striking. "What they complaining about they get loadsa holidays". FFS!

Look I'm not in favour of striking really, especially in this case. But its the above mentality that we really need to stamp out in this country!

And BWFC-I demonstrates perfectly just how out of touch teachers are with the world for which they're supposed to be preparing their pupils/students.

Hey I'm not a teacher.

Point being that whatever holidays they get has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation. You keep bashing the public sector/teachers/nurses whoever you like and saying they've got an easy ride etc. My question is if that is the case why aren't you a teacher or a nurse, I'm sure you'd look fetching in the uniform!

I worked in the public sector until the age of 19, and after continually being told to slow down my workrate, and that I was putting people's noses out of joint by my application, this coming from those in supervisory positions, I realised that I couldn't take any further part in the absolute charade that puts itself forward as being local governance and 'authority'. So, when did I "bash" nurses?

Right. Ok. I've worked across both sectors and my experience is that on both sides there are completely lazy feckless muppets. I would also say that in my experience and again you can only go off your own experiences more is demanded from folk in the public sector than the private but that obviously very much depends on where you work. What I would say is that its harder to get rid of the useless lazy muppets in the public sector, however that has somewhat improved. There is a cultural difference though and I'd say that revolves more around the hierachy. For example decision making is much much much harder in the NHS and rightly requires a lot more input from a lot more sources than say it is for Tesco's. Thats just the nature of the beast, and a result of what is at stake!

NHS - Tesco. Don't use opposites to prove your point, will you? I agree, there are lazy wasters in both sectors, however, what I've found personally, and what I mentioned before, is that I found my desire to crack on stifled in the public sector and encouraged in the private. Of course, not everyone's the same nor is each facet of either sector, but one tends to go with what one's experienced.

[bobo the clown]

It is a job. But without getting too involved in the politics how would you feel if the objects of your attention, say a project you were working on, suddenly sh*t itself/ Made itself unavailable/ refused to be worked on/ made it impossible to change due to pages being missing. Or if the client's representative decided you were shit at your job purely because they didn't understand what you did and stood at the doors to your office telling all who walked past that ''they could do a better job than you'' and ''look at the massive holidays you get''

The problem with Teachers and Nurses etc. is there is no short term end product. People without children don't get to see their value. There are shit teachers, of course there are, but as an investment in the future, most of them are worth their weight in gold.

So it is a job. But it's a vocation too.

No-one says it's easy and many of society's shifts in the past 30 years have made it more challenging but if you feel managing these little darlings is hard you may want to try managing their parents !!

Management in any area is tough. I do get cheesed off constantly hearing teachers whinge. That's the career they chose, it has its ups & its downs, it can be difficult, it is not a piece of piss. But I fail to see why they should get earlier retirement, better pensions and better terms than the bulk of us.

.... & they DO get massive holidays.

[thebish]

Folk on the radio making stupid ill informed statements re Teachers striking. "What they complaining about they get loadsa holidays". FFS!

Look I'm not in favour of striking really, especially in this case. But its the above mentality that we really need to stamp out in this country!

to be fair... they DO get loads of holidays! it's no good denying it!

Coming from Mr. '1 day a week man' that's a bit rich.

you cheeky scamp!

[thebish]

did a funeral today for a woman who used to be very involved in the church, but hasn't been around in the congregation during my tenure because of increasingly serious ill-health. she ended her days in a nursing home literally bent double in a chair because of spinal crumbling combined with parkinsons and a neck-problem...

she has four sons, three daughters-in-law and 10 adult grandchildren.

only ONE member of the family has been seen in the nursing home over the last 4 years - her only visitors - and her only contact with the outside world (except for this one family member) have been church folk who have been every week.

after all that - the absent sons throw a lavish funeral today - no expense spared - looooong weepy eulogy from the most absent of the sons, big lavishly-catered wake afterwards...

contempt....

[Gary the Enfield]

It is a job. But without getting too involved in the politics how would you feel if the objects of your attention, say a project you were working on, suddenly sh*t itself/ Made itself unavailable/ refused to be worked on/ made it impossible to change due to pages being missing. Or if the client's representative decided you were shit at your job purely because they didn't understand what you did and stood at the doors to your office telling all who walked past that ''they could do a better job than you'' and ''look at the massive holidays you get''

The problem with Teachers and Nurses etc. is there is no short term end product. People without children don't get to see their value. There are shit teachers, of course there are, but as an investment in the future, most of them are worth their weight in gold.

So it is a job. But it's a vocation too.

No-one says it's easy and many of society's shifts in the past 30 years have made it more challenging but if you feel managing these little darlings is hard you may want to try managing their parents !!

Management in any area is tough. I do get cheesed off constantly hearing teachers whinge. That's the career they chose, it has its ups & its downs, it can be difficult, it is not a piece of piss. But I fail to see why they should get earlier retirement, better pensions and better terms than the bulk of us.

.... & they DO get massive holidays.

Bobo you're a HR man. In your experience would someone who has had their contract T's & C's changed without consultation be able to walk away from their job and cite constructive dismissal?

This shot across the bows is what's needed to make the Government see they have an obligation, as employers, to do right by their employees isn't it?

[bobo the clown]

Bobo you're a HR man. In your experience would someone who has had their contract T's & C's changed without consultation be able to walk away from their job and cite constructive dismissal?

This shot across the bows is what's needed to make the Government see they have an obligation, as employers, to do right by their employees isn't it?

In short, no.

There HAS been ... is currently ... consultation. There is no obligation to agree on the terms under discussion just that there were meaningful consultations. Whatever position you take on the subject this is the case.

After those conclude, with or without agreement, due notice may be served and the new terms can be implemented thereon.

The employee may take it upon themselves to resign, but a claim of constructive dismissal on these grounds would not successfully follow.

Do you prefer my hourly rate, or daily rate with free follow-up offer.(discounted if you have a season ticket ) ?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Bobo you're a HR man. In your experience would someone who has had their contract T's & C's changed without consultation be able to walk away from their job and cite constructive dismissal?

This shot across the bows is what's needed to make the Government see they have an obligation, as employers, to do right by their employees isn't it?

In short, no.

There HAS been ... is currently ... consultation. There is no obligation to agree on the terms under discussion just that there were meaningful consultations. Whatever position you take on the subject this is the case.

After those conclude, with or without agreement, due notice may be served and the new terms can be implemented thereon.

The employee may take it upon themselves to resign, but a claim of constructive dismissal on these grounds would not successfully follow.

Do you prefer my hourly rate, or daily rate with free follow-up offer.(discounted if you have a season ticket ) ?

Right - nobody's offered T&Cs for life, are they?!

[thebish]

There HAS been ... is currently ... consultation. There is no obligation to agree on the terms under discussion just that there were meaningful consultations. Whatever position you take on the subject this is the case.

were there? or was the decision made (and announced by Danny Alexander) - and then an exercise in "consultation" about "implementation" begun?

[Lord Kangana]

I don't know the exact answer. But I do know that certain public sector workers are being offered their pensions earlier, or lucrative short-term contracts in different departments (amongst other initiatives), whilst having an offer of a return to work in their old posts, in a bid to get them off their old contract terms. They may not be for life, but because they have to be written to the letter of the law, and there is a far more robust appeals procedure, they are much harder to break than their private sector equivalents.

[bobo the clown]

There HAS been ... is currently ... consultation. There is no obligation to agree on the terms under discussion just that there were meaningful consultations. Whatever position you take on the subject this is the case.

were there? or was the decision made (and announced by Danny Alexander) - and then an exercise in "consultation" about "implementation" begun?

Yes.

Even Brendan Barber has conceded this.

[thebish]

There HAS been ... is currently ... consultation. There is no obligation to agree on the terms under discussion just that there were meaningful consultations. Whatever position you take on the subject this is the case.

were there? or was the decision made (and announced by Danny Alexander) - and then an exercise in "consultation" about "implementation" begun?

Yes.

Even Brendan Barber has conceded this.

ok - i didn't know that - this is your field of expertise - not mine!