Liverpool laughing stocks?

[bobo the clown]

They are still rapidly re-building the debt they had prior to when the rightful, if controversial, owners were robbed of the club. A little matter which had not gone away btw.

It has all the hallmarks of a massive version of debt consolidation. "Hey, our credit cards have been cleared, let's go on a spending binge".

I had, very sulkily, accepted that they were spending the money they had got from the Torres sale. Now, & thank you blurred, I understand that the £50m they were reported to have got from that sale would have been an inflated number anyway (unless in Liverpool-economics that's only a one-way arguement). So I'm back to scoffing at them.

They have built up a decent squad. However, they are, like Newcastle & Leeds before them, gambling money that relies of continued success (as defined by being in the Champions League spots). If they fail to get into the top 4 this coming season they really will be, truly, in deep, deep shite.

[blurred]

I had, very sulkily, accepted that they were spending the money they had got from the Torres sale. Now, & thank you blurred, I understand that the £50m they were reported to have got from that sale would have been an inflated number anyway (unless in Liverpool-economics that's only a one-way arguement). So I'm back to scoffing at them.

Nah, the Torres money (plus the Babel loose change) was spent on Carroll and Suarez in January. This is 'new' money, although where it's coming from is anyone's guess. But with the debt burden having been lifted from the club the smart money is on the fact that this is what we would have been paying in interest, and with a bit of restructuring of the wage bill and getting rid of a few players on decent money (Torres especially, but also the likes of Konchesky and Jovanovic who are stealing a living) we should be comfortably paying within our means. Now if only we can find someone stupid enough to take Joke Hole off our hands, we'll be laughing.

They have built up a decent squad. However, they are, like Newcastle & Leeds before them, gambling money that relies of continued success (as defined by being in the Champions League spots). If they fail to get into the top 4 this coming season they really will be, truly, in deep, deep shite.

Disagree. Had we still been under the old owners and spending this money then that would ring true, because we'd have £40m a year to pay in interest on top of the player acquisitions and wages that we've got, but that's not the case now. I'm cautious as to the amount that's being spent, but provided we don't go daft between now and deadline day, I'd say it's sustainable.

[Lofthouse Lower]

£120,000 per week in year one for Jovanovic - his agent is a hero

Not bad for three months' effort

[thebish]

Nah, the Torres money (plus the Babel loose change) was spent on Carroll and Suarez in January.

hmmm.... if - as you argue - fees are never properly disclosed - then how on earth do you know this?

[Lofthouse Lower]

ACCEPTED AS FACT

COMMON KNOWLEDGE

[blurred]

Nah, the Torres money (plus the Babel loose change) was spent on Carroll and Suarez in January.

hmmm.... if - as you argue - fees are never properly disclosed - then how on earth do you know this?

I didn't say they were never properly disclosed at all

I said that you couldn't take any one figure reported in the press as gospel (unless and until it appears in a club's accounts, or if they are a plc where it is declared to the Stock Exchange), so if one paper says £20m and another says £16m and another says £10m + loads of add-ons you'd be foolish to rely entirely on one or another.

In the case of Carroll and Suarez (and Babel and Torres) the fees broadly balance each other out, so in answer to the person who was thinking that we were spending Torres money in this window I merely pointed out that the ins and outs of January in respect of those four transfers were largely the same; for all anyone knows we might have a few million either side, depending on the make-up of the deals, but any money that's being spent now will not have been part of any 'war-chest' of Torres money, because we couldn't have afforded the "British record fee" for Carroll without receiving the Torres fee, as we didn't have a pot to piss in.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Bloody love a good warchest.

[blurred]

Bloody love a good warchest.

Ever listen to the Football Ramble podcast? I like their sliding scale when it comes to money to spend.

[thebish]

Nah, the Torres money (plus the Babel loose change) was spent on Carroll and Suarez in January.

hmmm.... if - as you argue - fees are never properly disclosed - then how on earth do you know this?

I didn't say they were never properly disclosed at all

I said that you couldn't take any one figure reported in the press as gospel (unless and until it appears in a club's accounts, or if they are a plc where it is declared to the Stock Exchange), so if one paper says £20m and another says £16m and another says £10m + loads of add-ons you'd be foolish to rely entirely on one or another.

In the case of Carroll and Suarez (and Babel and Torres) the fees broadly balance each other out, so in answer to the person who was thinking that we were spending Torres money in this window I merely pointed out that the ins and outs of January in respect of those four transfers were largely the same; for all anyone knows we might have a few million either side, depending on the make-up of the deals, but any money that's being spent now will not have been part of any 'war-chest' of Torres money, because we couldn't have afforded the "British record fee" for Carroll without receiving the Torres fee, as we didn't have a pot to piss in.

The fees reported in the press - or the fees that appear in the club's accounts?

[Lofthouse Lower]

Bloody love a good warchest.

Ever listen to the Football Ramble podcast? I like their sliding scale when it comes to money to spend.

I used to, until it became too irritating listening to that fat cretin Moore interrupt and overrule everyone with his plagiarised 'jokes' and opinions.

Though yes, I agree on the scale point

[blurred]

The fees reported in the press - or the fees that appear in the club's accounts?

The accounts haven't been released yet, obviously, but going on the announcements of the club(s) at the time (rather than Sky Sports believes...) the fees are broadly in line.

Off the top of my head, Suarez was "a fee upto €26.5m" I think according to our official site, which allows for some debate as to the up-front cash element but at least gives a total figure of around £23m as a top amount, while Carroll was officially announced as a "British record transfer fee" which means it was more than £32.5m (I believe, which was the previous record for Robinho).

Putting those two together gives you a little over £55m initial outlay, which when combined with the Torres and Babel fees brings the amounts out as broadly level.

[Lord Kangana]

Hang on a second, surely Torres is now the British record signing?

[Lofthouse Lower]

I took that to mean 'for a British player'

[blurred]

Hang on a second, surely Torres is now the British record signing?

Indeed. But we technically signed Carroll before they signed Torres - see the Beeb's "as it happened" bit of deadline day for when they were announced http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9380667.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I took that to mean 'for a British player'

The figures are largely similar anyway - I think Rio Ferdinand cost £29m-£30m or something like that? Either way, we paid more than £30m for him.

[thebish]

The fees reported in the press - or the fees that appear in the club's accounts?

The accounts haven't been released yet, obviously, but going on the announcements of the club(s) at the time (rather than Sky Sports believes...) the fees are broadly in line.

ahhh - and those can be trusted? you appeared to be saying earlier that they couldn't...

[blurred]

The fees reported in the press - or the fees that appear in the club's accounts?

The accounts haven't been released yet, obviously, but going on the announcements of the club(s) at the time (rather than Sky Sports believes...) the fees are broadly in line.

ahhh - and those can be trusted? you appeared to be saying earlier that they couldn't...

No, I just said that the devil's in the detail and can be subject to interpretation, and that in hypothetical situations the same deal could be reported in different ways. Liverpool's "upto €26.5m" or whatever it was gives the ultimate top-line figure, which is fine. I don't know how much we paid up-front, and what the contingencies/bonuses are, but that's how I'm happy enough to arrive at a total of £22m for Suarez (even if the amount we actually end up paying is likely to be a little less).

For NUFC to say that Carroll was sold for a British record, that'd have to mean that the up-front/non-bonus related cash would top the Ferdinand/Robinho bracket, because if it was £20m + loads of contingencies/bonuses their press office wouldn't be able to get away with it. The precise make-up of the deal, again, is secret, but it's clear that we're talking guaranteed transfer fee of in excess of £32m even if we were paying that in installments over 3 years.

[Lofthouse Lower]

You're arguing with an idiot there, blurred, be mindful.

[thebish]

The fees reported in the press - or the fees that appear in the club's accounts?

The accounts haven't been released yet, obviously, but going on the announcements of the club(s) at the time (rather than Sky Sports believes...) the fees are broadly in line.

ahhh - and those can be trusted? you appeared to be saying earlier that they couldn't...

No, I just said that the devil's in the detail and can be subject to interpretation, and that in hypothetical situations the same deal could be reported in different ways. Liverpool's "upto €26.5m" or whatever it was gives the ultimate top-line figure, which is fine. I don't know how much we paid up-front, and what the contingencies/bonuses are, but that's how I'm happy enough to arrive at a total of £22m for Suarez (even if the amount we actually end up paying is likely to be a little less).

For NUFC to say that Carroll was sold for a British record, that'd have to mean that the up-front/non-bonus related cash would top the Ferdinand/Robinho bracket, because if it was £20m + loads of contingencies/bonuses their press office wouldn't be able to get away with it. The precise make-up of the deal, again, is secret, but it's clear that we're talking guaranteed transfer fee of in excess of £32m even if we were paying that in installments over 3 years.

sounds pretty much like your original objection was gash then....

[CAPSLOCK]

Are you still humouring him

[Lofthouse Lower]

Have a read of Mark Lawrenson's unbiased and balanced view of that dirty rat Suarez

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14217232.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's the comparison to Cristiano Ronaldo that got me