Here we go (aka UK riots thread)

[William the White]

Maybe. I'm just saying we're too nicey nicey towards nasty people in this country.

I think that's an argument that is more sustainable...

I think we are also too nasty nasty towards nice people... And it's becoming more so...

Just provisional evidence - in the government's investigation into the accuracy of claims for disability support allowance (I don't object to this, it should only be claimable by those entitled), 39%, on appeal, are found to be incorrectly assessed as capable for work when they aren't, because of their disability...

Which government agency that gets things wrong two out of five times is doing its job well? And why does it find itself making this mistake so often?

I reckon it's government pressure to prove fraud that leads it to put some of the most vulnerable people in our society through the mill like this...

We are being governed by the nasty, nasty party...

IMHO...

[Armchair Wanderer]

Maybe. I'm just saying we're too nicey nicey towards nasty people in this country.

I think that's an argument that is more sustainable...

I think we are also too nasty nasty towards nice people... And it's becoming more so...

Just provisional evidence - in the government's investigation into the accuracy of claims for disability support allowance (I don't object to this, it should only be claimable by those entitled), 39%, on appeal, are found to be incorrectly assessed as capable for work when they aren't, because of their disability...

Which government agency that gets things wrong two out of five times is doing its job well? And why does it find itself making this mistake so often?

I reckon it's government pressure to prove fraud that leads it to put some of the most vulnerable people in our society through the mill like this...

We are being governed by the nasty, nasty party...

IMHO...

100% agree. I'm basically a lefty for most issues.

[William the White]

The problem is Tango, as unpalatable as this is, if you criminalise hundreds, if not thousands, of these people/morons (and therefore the added consequences on your employment prospects etc) this will just happen again.

I don't have the answer by the way. But someones going to have to come with some very clever way of dealing with this. Cleverer than just "we'll arrest them and it'll all go away" anyway.

If we start with the thought that there's no simple answer to a complex question we have the chance of providing some provisional, hopeful, tangible response... And that's the best we should hope for, because it's the best attainable...

If we think water cannon/rubber bullets/heavy machine guns is the answer we only prove ourselves terminally stupid...

It won't treat the symptoms, it won't effect the cure...

There is a balance to be found between the idea of finding answers to complex questions and the concept of the authorities using sufficient deterents when lawlessness abounds.

An impotent law enforcement organisation does nobody any favours.

I think I'm anxious to seek that balance myself... I like the idea of keeping 'policing by consent' very much - so do the police and a Tory Home Sec, it seems... (Feck me, I'm growing old!)

I also like the idea of seeking social solutions to social problems... Here I may not be on the side of the rubber bulleteers having a fiesta here... but perhaps on yours, WW?

[Wandering Willy]

I think we're on the same wavelength with the exception that I lean towards a firmer response to widespread lawlessness.

In extreme circumstances I am probably a rubber bulleteer though I am not too happy to admit it.

[William the White]

I think we're on the same wavelength with the exception that I lean towards a firmer response to widespread lawlessness.

In extreme circumstances I am probably a rubber bulleteer though I am not too happy to admit it.

I understand...

The important thing now is to stop the violence... I would like the approach to be about the community and the 'authority' [in the broadest sense - community leaders, local business, mothers especially, church and mosque leaders - the total failure to bring these people into the debate seems stupid... and the state - and here, the immediate most useful piece of legislation that could be usefully passed, imho, would be to rob them of anonymity - make it a crime to wear a hoodie, a mask etc, and if they can be arrested for that you have an effective power]...

Just my alternative to the rubber bullets...

But, through whatever means, when the emergency has passed, address the underlying problems or prepare for the re-enactment...

[jmjhb]

Watching Sangat TV, they're talking a lot of sense.

[Lofthouse Lower]

As I left work they were booting in the windows of the Ugg Shop - which this morning lay completely empty of all stock. Some dobbers getting fancy shoes for their 13yr old pregnant wives no doubt.

Miss Selfridge looks pretty much destroyed too. Loads of cops about this morning.

If they've destroyed Home Bargains I'm going to go f'kin spare

[keveh]

I heard that Ugg had actually moved all of their stock and left empty boxes.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Good on them then.

Some horrific photos http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lence.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bruce Rioja]

I dislike the Tories as much as the next man but this is just lazy kids doing something because no-one's going to stop them. If they are caught are they going to be charged with anything? Any prison time? Anything?

you can be absolutely sure they will face the full weight of the law - Dave has spoken - "if you're old enough to do the crime you are old enough for the punishment" - I have no doubt that every one of them will receieve a very lengthy prison sentence - Dave has spoken....

Ed's been on with his problem solver - impose curfews.

4uck me!

"Right you lot, stop being naughty and get to bed!".

[Lofthouse Lower]

and http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk ... der-Threat" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[seanworth]

My sympathies. Had to live with it in Thailand just over a year ago.

[boltonboris]

Was stranded between Salford and Town last night until gone 8 as they stopped all buses coming and going. Met was stopped.

Police informed everybody to go to Chapel Street where they promised us Buses would be running. They knew full well they weren't, they just didn;t want people milling around. So what do they do? Redirect us to a place half a mile between both riots where innocent people could get their heads cracked in by scallies with bottles, whilst the 3 or 4 policemen watched on.

I managed to get away unscathed in the end.

Worst thing was that I couldn't even ring my wife to let her know I was okay, as they'd cut off mobile phone signals.

I'm sure it was policed to the best of their abilities, but they were woefully short on numbers in the surrounding areas

[2399]

Scary stuff Boris.



Both the Premier League and Football League are to meet on Thursday to decide whether games in London this weekend will go ahead.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Get em cancelled

[David Lee's Hair]

I dislike the Tories as much as the next man but this is just lazy kids doing something because no-one's going to stop them. If they are caught are they going to be charged with anything? Any prison time? Anything?

you can be absolutely sure they will face the full weight of the law - Dave has spoken - "if you're old enough to do the crime you are old enough for the punishment" - I have no doubt that every one of them will receieve a very lengthy prison sentence - Dave has spoken....

Ed's been on with his problem solver - impose curfews.

4uck me!

"Right you lot, stop being naughty and get to bed!".

#

Anyone caught for any of this should have there benefits stopped permenantly and put in stir....

[Bijou Bob]

Anyone caught for any of this should have there benefits stopped permenantly and put in stir....[/quote]

You'd think it would be a matter of course that everyone arrested and charged with an offence in the past few days would have their benefits checked. They don't. I raised the issue in a meeting a long while ago and as a result started a pilot scheme that checked the benefit status of everyone who was arrested within a local borough area. Surprise, surprise, over half of those bailed were bailed to an address from which a woman was claiming she lived alone. A substantial proportion were claiming incapacity benefit, including one guy who had been chased for over a mile at 3am from a burglary. He was on incapacity for a 'nervous problem'.

Publicise the fact that everyone arrested or identified as being involved will be the subject of a full benefits investigation and trust me, half of any crowd would disappear like magic, particularly in Salford.

[Lofthouse Lower]

great post.

[hisroyalgingerness]

Agree. And as for benefit stopping etc, we'd lose a pretty important pillar of our society if we changed laws in hindsight of events, and subsequently applied the new ones.

Moving forward it seems greater deterrents are necessary, but let's not make up a load of new punishments now the horse has bolted on this particular round of events

[2399]

Saw on the news

A 140 year old Family run Furniture Place in Croydon. Gone

Someones Childhood Home. Gone

Police in Manchester Shooed people away, but one person went unnoticed (TV Cameras saw him); He was leaning against a window and soon after the display behind the window was ablaze