Here we go (aka UK riots thread)

[Hoboh]

Who's the victim in my scenario?

Probs the odd pigon or so?

[Worthy4England]

Who's the victim in my scenario?

I didn't say their was one? What's your point?

[Lord Kangana]

I'm trying to establish if you're making a hierarchy of crime.

[Lord Kangana]

Who's the victim in my scenario?

Probs the odd pigon or so?

No animals were harmed in this story.

[Hoboh]

I'm trying to establish if you're making a hierarchy of crime.

Play yer cards right I'll mek thee a Duke

[Lord Kangana]

I've always fancied Count to be honest.

Any chance?

[Worthy4England]

I'm trying to establish if you're making a hierarchy of crime.

Must try harder.

There is already one in the sense that some crimes attract higher sentences than others.

I was just pointing out, that as crimes go, speeding seems to me to be victimless. Given that no one has yet given any credible victims of speeding, I'll stick with that notion thanks.

[Lord Kangana]

When you say credible victims, are you saying just from our small select group, or from the wider world?

After all, I've been the victim of a a motoring offence that wrote off the car I was in.

Again, people tend to rate crime based on what they themselves value within their lives. So for example, in your experience, as man with a family (as I recall), probably a mortgage, you consider breaking and entering to be a gretaer offence than a motoring one.

This isn't intended as an inflaming question, but would that change if a member of your family was injured because of a speeding drivers actions?

[Worthy4England]

When you say credible victims, are you saying just from our small select group, or from the wider world?

After all, I've been the victim of a a motoring offence that wrote off the car I was in.

Again, people tend to rate crime based on what they themselves value within their lives. So for example, in your experience, as man with a family (as I recall), probably a mortgage, you consider breaking and entering to be a gretaer offence than a motoring one.

This isn't intended as an inflaming question, but would that change if a member of your family was injured because of a speeding drivers actions?

You're missing the point.

I'm not advocating speeding.

I have also been in a couple of write-offs, including one that rolled over a couple of times that I got cut out of (not me driving). I've also lost relatives in motoring accidents and saw my best mate killed when I was 11.

If a speeding driver injured a member of my family or worse, they would be charged with reckless driving, death by dangerous driving or suchlike, so not speeding...

[Hoboh]

When you say credible victims, are you saying just from our small select group, or from the wider world?

After all, I've been the victim of a a motoring offence that wrote off the car I was in.

Again, people tend to rate crime based on what they themselves value within their lives. So for example, in your experience, as man with a family (as I recall), probably a mortgage, you consider breaking and entering to be a gretaer offence than a motoring one.

This isn't intended as an inflaming question, but would that change if a member of your family was injured because of a speeding drivers actions?

You're missing the point.

I'm not advocating speeding.

I have also been in a couple of write-offs, including one that rolled over a couple of times that I got cut out of (not me driving). I've also lost relatives in motoring accidents and saw my best mate killed when I was 11.

If a speeding driver injured a member of my family or worse, they would be charged with reckless driving, death by dangerous driving or suchlike, so not speeding...

They'd be lynched mate!

[Lord Kangana]

When you say credible victims, are you saying just from our small select group, or from the wider world?

After all, I've been the victim of a a motoring offence that wrote off the car I was in.

Again, people tend to rate crime based on what they themselves value within their lives. So for example, in your experience, as man with a family (as I recall), probably a mortgage, you consider breaking and entering to be a gretaer offence than a motoring one.

This isn't intended as an inflaming question, but would that change if a member of your family was injured because of a speeding drivers actions?

You're missing the point.

I'm not advocating speeding.

I have also been in a couple of write-offs, including one that rolled over a couple of times that I got cut out of (not me driving). I've also lost relatives in motoring accidents and saw my best mate killed when I was 11.

If a speeding driver injured a member of my family or worse, they would be charged with reckless driving, death by dangerous driving or suchlike, so not speeding...

So surely prevention being far better than scraping people up off the road and investigating the crime, a prudent society would try to reduce the potential for road deaths by introducing laws that made an offence of one of the ingredients, and therefore root causes, of road accidents?

[Worthy4England]

When you say credible victims, are you saying just from our small select group, or from the wider world?

After all, I've been the victim of a a motoring offence that wrote off the car I was in.

Again, people tend to rate crime based on what they themselves value within their lives. So for example, in your experience, as man with a family (as I recall), probably a mortgage, you consider breaking and entering to be a gretaer offence than a motoring one.

This isn't intended as an inflaming question, but would that change if a member of your family was injured because of a speeding drivers actions?

You're missing the point.

I'm not advocating speeding.

I have also been in a couple of write-offs, including one that rolled over a couple of times that I got cut out of (not me driving). I've also lost relatives in motoring accidents and saw my best mate killed when I was 11.

If a speeding driver injured a member of my family or worse, they would be charged with reckless driving, death by dangerous driving or suchlike, so not speeding...

So surely prevention being far better than scraping people up off the road and investigating the crime, a prudent society would try to reduce the potential for road deaths by introducing laws that made an offence of one of the ingredients, and therefore root causes, of road accidents?

I don't recall suggesting society shouldn't...

I still haven't identified any victims of speeding...

[Lord Kangana]

But if you break any crime down into its component parts, there will be important actions that helped facilitate the crime but didn't necessarily have a direct impact upon the victim.

I mean, I doubt you'd be an advocate of something such as twocking, but your argument seems to sail perilously close to that avenue of thought.

[Hoboh]

When you say credible victims, are you saying just from our small select group, or from the wider world?

After all, I've been the victim of a a motoring offence that wrote off the car I was in.

Again, people tend to rate crime based on what they themselves value within their lives. So for example, in your experience, as man with a family (as I recall), probably a mortgage, you consider breaking and entering to be a gretaer offence than a motoring one.

This isn't intended as an inflaming question, but would that change if a member of your family was injured because of a speeding drivers actions?

You're missing the point.

I'm not advocating speeding.

I have also been in a couple of write-offs, including one that rolled over a couple of times that I got cut out of (not me driving). I've also lost relatives in motoring accidents and saw my best mate killed when I was 11.

If a speeding driver injured a member of my family or worse, they would be charged with reckless driving, death by dangerous driving or suchlike, so not speeding...

So surely prevention being far better than scraping people up off the road and investigating the crime, a prudent society would try to reduce the potential for road deaths by introducing laws that made an offence of one of the ingredients, and therefore root causes, of road accidents?

Your being very clever tonight, intentional?

[Worthy4England]

But if you break any crime down into its component parts, there will be important actions that helped facilitate the crime but didn't necessarily have a direct impact upon the victim.

I mean, I doubt you'd be an advocate of something such as twocking, but your argument seems to sail perilously close to that avenue of thought.

My argument sails in a completely different hemisphere.

TWOC has a victim. The car owner.

[Lord Kangana]

But it remains a lesser offence because it is easier to argue that there wasn't an intention to permanently deprive the owner of the vehicule.

Which brings us neatly back to the original argument, as twocking created a merry-go-round of short sentences and a revolving door of perpetrators.

[Worthy4England]

Well yes, we could argue lots of possibilities, other than that we can fairly easily find the victim of it.

[Lord Kangana]

If you're on holiday and someone twocks your car, is there a victim if you don't know about it?

[Worthy4England]

If you're on holiday and someone twocks your car, is there a victim if you don't know about it?

How'd they get into it? They going to pay for the wear and tear on the tyres? What about the reduction in value for the additional mileage they've put on it?

You found any victims of speeding yet?

[Lord Kangana]

You left it unlocked. They put it on a flat bed.