Corners
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- officer_dibble
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Corners
WTF is going on with corners? Two teams leaving 3 men up against our own, us still prehistorically dragging everyone back when defending them. This new tactic seems to have us flumoxed...flooding the box with men is how we get goals...almost seems like it would be a game of russian roulette - what if we gambled and threw a couple more men forward, would two or threee of the oppositions forward men come back? Problem with doing that is if its a shit corner and cleared quickly we are f*cked.
Still think its a shambles we pull 11 men back in the box though, think at 5-0 for the last corner n'gog stayed forward. It also makes me think we don't work on set pieces, cos it was a Megson (Big Sam even) tactic the only one we haven't changed on. It doesn't seem very Coyle.
Still think its a shambles we pull 11 men back in the box though, think at 5-0 for the last corner n'gog stayed forward. It also makes me think we don't work on set pieces, cos it was a Megson (Big Sam even) tactic the only one we haven't changed on. It doesn't seem very Coyle.
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Re: Corners
The tactic defending corners is backfiring big time.
All 11 men dragged in to within 8 yards of goal, so anything short, we're fecked defending. If we clear the ball, we're too slow to close down (see Barry's goal) and we have to defend another 2, 3 phases of play.
All 11 men dragged in to within 8 yards of goal, so anything short, we're fecked defending. If we clear the ball, we're too slow to close down (see Barry's goal) and we have to defend another 2, 3 phases of play.
- BWFC_Insane
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Re: Corners
Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.
I don't get why folks get their knickers in such a twist over this. If bringing 11 back means we are less likely to concede and that like it or not is a fact according to Allardyce and Coyle, then it might not be pretty but hey it's hardly end of the world stuff!
I don't get why folks get their knickers in such a twist over this. If bringing 11 back means we are less likely to concede and that like it or not is a fact according to Allardyce and Coyle, then it might not be pretty but hey it's hardly end of the world stuff!
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Re: Corners
Conceded at least twice from corners already this season
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Re: Corners
Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway?? Sometimes, it's just nice to relieve a bit of pressure. Whenever we concede a corner for the next few minutes we're under the kosh(cosh?) as we've no outlet. Oppo just keeps recycling whilst we keep trying to defend. This is when you start ball watching too...BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.
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Re: Corners
Did any of these 2 x 3 forwards score against us on the breakaway? Did we concede at either post from any corner against us in either game? I don't know, but I know why Coyle does it. I'm interested to know what the stats are.officer_dibble wrote:WTF is going on with corners? Two teams leaving 3 men up against our own,
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Re: Corners
Clearly it's to concede less rather than it is to score more.boltonboris wrote:Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway??BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.
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Re: Corners
I get that, but Coyle himself has said that we're unlikely to score on the counter so we may aswell get everybody back. My argument is though, that we're possibly more likely to concede, as there's no way of getting the ball clear. Everytime it comes back in, you lose that little bit of concentration and you think about clearing the ball yet again than actually picking up runsBruce Rioja wrote:Clearly it's to concede less rather than it is to score more.boltonboris wrote:Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway??BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.
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Re: Corners
I agree - and there are players that are absolutely no use defending around the box anyway - petrov, for one, so for corners why not leave him up for an out ball - he can at least run with it for 20yds while everyone else gets their breath back...boltonboris wrote:I get that, but Coyle himself has said that we're unlikely to score on the counter so we may aswell get everybody back. My argument is though, that we're possibly more likely to concede, as there's no way of getting the ball clear. Everytime it comes back in, you lose that little bit of concentration and you think about clearing the ball yet again than actually picking up runsBruce Rioja wrote:Clearly it's to concede less rather than it is to score more.boltonboris wrote:Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway??BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.
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Re: Corners
I'd leave Jussi up.
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Re: Corners
Presuming that the clearance gets to him, and he can hold it up to any great effect. Otherwise it's just coming back anyway, and we've less people in the box.thebish wrote:I agree - and there are players that are absolutely no use defending around the box anyway - petrov, for one, so for corners why not leave him up for an out ball - he can at least run with it for 20yds while everyone else gets their breath back...boltonboris wrote:I get that, but Coyle himself has said that we're unlikely to score on the counter so we may aswell get everybody back. My argument is though, that we're possibly more likely to concede, as there's no way of getting the ball clear. Everytime it comes back in, you lose that little bit of concentration and you think about clearing the ball yet again than actually picking up runsBruce Rioja wrote:Clearly it's to concede less rather than it is to score more.boltonboris wrote:Who says you always have to score to make it a successful breakaway??BWFC_Insane wrote:Cos statistically speaking you are far better pulling all your players back, you concede less. You hardly ever score on a break from a corner.
I think since we've started doing it, we've conceded very few goals from corners, and fewer from cleared corners coming back into the box. I don't think Petrov being stood on the half-way line would've stopped Barry's goal, for example.
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Re: Corners
I'm not convinced that he has to get the ball to be of value. He might rush the defenders punt back into the box, might force them to leave more men back.
As above, whilst I'm not for leaving 3 up, I don't see what use Petrov is at corners for us. Might aswell keep him out of harms way on the halfway line.
As above, whilst I'm not for leaving 3 up, I don't see what use Petrov is at corners for us. Might aswell keep him out of harms way on the halfway line.
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Re: Corners
It's all well and good saying Coyle and Allardyce used to bring everyone back, but the bloke who introduce leaving three up when defending corners was one Mr Mourinho. Yesterday old red nose left three up. If you have players who aren't going to win headers, but are quick, you might as well. They might not score but they give us an outlet, stop the ball coming back, and that may well lead to goals. You don;t have to score goals directly from it for it to make a difference. It depends on the players. For me, as others have said, there is no point having Petrov defending them, so why not leave him up, that means they have to leave two back. Even if he doesn't score, he might relieve pressure. He definitely isn't going to have any effect in and around our box.
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Re: Corners
It's fuc king bollocks and I don't like it.
Re: Corners
Wandering Willy wrote:I'd leave Jussi up.
Re: Corners
May as well take my bit from the match thread on this
Not normally one to moan about having everyone back for a corner, but at 3-0 up United still had 3 men on half way - De Gea gets it, one punt up the pitch and United nearly score from the Keystone Cops stuff. From the resulting corner we're 3-0 down but still have everyone back... Even given that mass of defenders, Nani is still allowed to saunter into the middle of the box, they have another unmarked on the edge and yet another unmarked far post who scores easily. Come on guys!
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Re: Corners
Been away on a stag weekend so missed the game but I see Norwich's first goal had a man stood unmarked where Hernandez scored against us the week before.
Is that now 4 corners and 1 wide free kick we've conceded from in last 4 games, everyone back or not something's not right.
Is that now 4 corners and 1 wide free kick we've conceded from in last 4 games, everyone back or not something's not right.
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Re: Corners
ditto. Brilliant. Wish it wasn't so true.Bruno3 wrote:Wandering Willy wrote:I'd leave Jussi up.
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Re: Corners
The all 11 back tactic was discussed ata fans forum. Coyle defended it vigouously on the statistical basis ... " we statistically let in very few " sort of thing. He didn't respond to the "what about the 2nd & 3rd phase". Clearly, even if it's only one left up, it allows 2 less attackers at you & can avoid the opponents gaining any clearance being quite so inevitable.
Plenty do it .... many who have a clue .... but I just don't understand why it is seen so one dimensionally. It's good to see some teams refusing to.
Plenty do it .... many who have a clue .... but I just don't understand why it is seen so one dimensionally. It's good to see some teams refusing to.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
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Re: Corners
I just find it odd that we're the home team and we have 11 men in the box, and the last two games we've had away teams have 2 or 3 left up
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