The non-knee jerking "Where next" thread

[LiOC]

Unfortunately the one player we need in our team right now to give us passion and a fighting chance is Kevin Davies a few years ago.

I'd go with:
Jussi
Steinsson-Anyone but Knight-Cahill-Robinson
Muamba-Reo-coker
Eagles-Tuncay-Gardner
Ngog

Gardner in to protect Robinson as swapping him in at left back would give Gardner the same problems that Robbo has. Plus he's great at slotting himself into the defence when needed from midfield, and is still really quick. I've left Eagles in as I don't really think there is much choice, swapping Petrov would just leave Steinsson exposed and Tuncay was not good there last time. Need to stop shipping goals more than anything, because we need a point at Wigan and only a clean sheet can guarantee at least that.

[Il Pirate]

And i thought this was the 'non knee jerk thread'?............................

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Realistically we need to be using the mobility of our midfield more. Its a shocking blow that we've lost two players of the calibre of Lee and Holden. But that still leaves us Muamba, NRC and Pratley. I would play them centrally, primarily as a screen but with the understanding that one or more can use that pace to join the attack. The watchword here would be disclipline. I think playing those 3 could pacify Williams need for solidity, but still allow us to play 3 attacking options. My preference would be perming three from N'Gog, Petrov, Klasnic, Tuncay and Kakuta.Probably one in a "free" role. After all, we need some variety if we're to score.

In this system, I would reinstate Steinsson. I would then instruct him that he was our attacking fullback. This may be on a rotational basis, after all you must remain fresh, but I suggest that we try and ensure solidity by always having three dedicated backs. And it would protect his forays upfield having a more solid screen in front of them.

Having said all that, we are now entering a phase of matches where we will not be playing teams of the calibre of that we have just faced. It may seem bold, but actually tweaks rather than sweeping change may just be the watchword. Its difficult to rip it up and start again in 2 weeks. No matter how vehemently you want to argue it.

Having read this whole thread in one go, this is the post that comes closest to my thoughts. I don't think things were "papering over cracks" but I did say a few times last season that fine margins were working in our favour: most of all, the two highest-tackling midfielders making the flat 4-4-2 work. Once they'd succumbed to injury and fatigue, our season went south at pace.

Despite the reappearance of 4-4-2 in a second half that was damage limitation for us and a post-Europe wind-down for Chelsea, I still think we'd be utterly foolish to pin our hopes on such an open, inflexible formation. We have to be refining the system variously known as 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, however you see it. As Caps has noted, you can't try things for half an hour then bin them off forever. And it's no accident that just about all the top sides in Europe play that system or a close variant of it. Not many at all play a straight two-wingered 4-4-2, except on certain occasions where they're playing a team so massively inferior that they can boss midfield despite being outnumbered.

So who plays? Jussi in goal - now's not the time to pick a young keeper. Cahill picks himself, and despite Knight enjoying a more solid last appearance than did Wheater, I'd still be tempted to go for the ex-Boro man – although there's not miles in it and we do need leadership back there. Robinson's a leader but he's shot to sh*t and clearly targeted by every team we face; Gardner must play as much as his limbs can cope with. Boyata on the other side as he's neat and tidy, although I've not yet given up on Steinsson, who offers more forward penetration.

NRC has been, as I suspected, a very solid central midfielder capable of covering yards and recycling the ball. Sadly, he's been our best player, principally because we've been constantly under pressure and our other recruits further forward have failed to cover themselves in glory – in fact, they've barely a fig-leaf between the lot of 'em. Yes, this is at least partly (and probably mainly) because of the quality of opposition, but as has been noted, now's the time for team and trainers to step up. NRC should be joined by Muamba.

The four in front of that depend on the opposition. Playing 4-2-3-1 would offer more defensive cover to the full-backs and Petrov still offers penetration, although he's not such a shoo-in that he should have played every single league minute this season (and 78 against Macclesfield) - we have other options there, notably the pacy Kakuta. On the other side, I think Eagles gets a bad press considering his willingness to work and at least attempt to create; he'd start wide-right for me, although would probably be among the first substituted.

Which leaves us with two roles. Up top, Davies still has a role, but far from a nailed-on 90-minute one. I'd still start Ngog and have KD as a bruiser-sub option, although Klasnic can also offer the cold dead eyes of the goalie-killer (and has, as Dibs notes, worked hard to drop deep and link play). But the other player - the central link-man - is a key decision in this system. It's the ideal position for both Pratley and Mark Davies (with Eagles and Kakuta also happy to play there) but it's also the best place for Tuncay's industry and inventiveness, and at Wigan I'd start with him – and, crucially, give him more than 20 minutes to develop a partnership with Ngog.

..................Jussi
Boyata Cahill Wheater Gardner
...........NRC.....Muamba...........
Eagles........Tuncay........Petrov
...................Ngog...................

Subs: Bogdan, Steinsson (rather than Knight because Boyata could cover the middle), Pratley (who could, if need be, cover defensive midfield if told to be diligent), Mark Davies (possibly for Eagles), Kakuta (for Eagles or Petrov), Kevin Davies (if we need to defend from the front), Klasnic (if we need a goal).

[boltonboris]

I'd have NRC as the 'left' sided midfielder to help protect Gardner. Muamba is obviously athletic, but Reo Coker has a little more nouse to make up for Petrov's lack of defensive presence.

I'd go along with most of DSB's team, except I'd switch NRC and Muamba round (petty, but it matters) and It'd be the toss of a coin between Petrov/Kakuta and Tuncay/Kakuta

[William the White]

Robinson left back, Gardner for Petrov.

The rest of DSB's team looks not far off... I'm no fan of Eagles but we haven't got options there that convince...

[Worthy4England]

Think I'd be reasonably happy to give DSB's team a go. Wouldn't be too unhappy with Gardner instead of Petrov if either Boyata (if able) or someone other than Robinson played LB.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'd have NRC as the 'left' sided midfielder to help protect Gardner. Muamba is obviously athletic, but Reo Coker has a little more nouse to make up for Petrov's lack of defensive presence.

Fair enough.

I'm no fan of Eagles but we haven't got options there that convince...

He offers good balance, the intent to come inside and link up, and certainly industry. Run himself ragged for an hour then make way.

It'd be the toss of a coin between Petrov/Kakuta and Tuncay/Kakuta

Kakuta would probably come off the bench, probably for Eagles when he tires.

Robinson left back, Gardner for Petrov.

I'm no hater of Robbo, but he's had his confidence sapped and, more pertinently, he's being targeted. Or our left-side combo is, and frankly I think Petrov is more important (albeit not undroppable). Gardner should be more effective at left-back than left-wing; I want the side to be solid, but not stolid.

Think I'd be reasonably happy to give DSB's team a go. Wouldn't be too unhappy with Gardner instead of Petrov if either Boyata (if able) or someone other than Robinson played LB.

I'm hoping Ricketts, the silent absence, can come back as diligent, flexible and organised as he was pre-crock. Not to go all Andranik - we did, after all, enjoy a good long spell with him in the team – but he'd have a good shout at being first-choice full-back on either side, and possibly Cahill's best partner.

[William the White]

Robinson left back, Gardner for Petrov.

I'm no hater of Robbo, but he's had his confidence sapped and, more pertinently, he's being targeted. Or our left-side combo is, and frankly I think Petrov is more important (albeit not undroppable). Gardner should be more effective at left-back than left-wing; I want the side to be solid, but not stolid.

I think our immediate and enduring problem for the next few games is to stop the three goals a game leakage... I'm not saying forever, but I am for the next few games, and, possibly, to the window, that the targeting of our left is best resisted by two defensibly-capable players... Petrov is a defensive vacuum... a disaster... there's nothing solid rather than stolid about a left side that has Petrov in front of Gardner... unless Ricardo has turned into superman...

We have to stop shipping goals! Priority number 1. Priority number 99! If the opposition is, actually, targeting our left side, let's make that genuinely more difficult... Five games with 0 against, and I start to twinkle, once more, at the thought of Petrov...

[martin1877coywm]

We can play three players on the left then nobody will get through

[William the White]

We can play three players on the left then nobody will get through

Two will be enough against three quarters of the opposition... If they don't include Petrov...

[martin1877coywm]

We can play three players on the left then nobody will get through

Two will be enough against three quarters of the opposition... If they don't include Petrov...

Areed, Petrov is bad at defending but who would we put there that is any good going forward? Gardner is to be fair much better at defending than Petrov but lacks the pace and creativity for me. Plus I doubt Kakuta is any better at defending.

I don't think Coyle thought it through much because he's so focused on changing our playing style that he forgot that we need to defend as well as attack.

[Worthy4England]

We can play three players on the left then nobody will get through

Two will be enough against three quarters of the opposition... If they don't include Petrov...

...And Robinson...

[Lord Kangana]

Aye, we hear all the time about Petrov never tracking back, no-one points out that Petrov has to do his own job solo up front because Robinson is such a slow f*cker. It cuts both ways.

[Gary the Enfield]

If we play the way we did against City we'll smash 'em.

But I think scoring the first goal will be key. If we go behind the jitters will set in.

But personally I think we'll win.
COYWM!!!!!

[a1]

Aye, we hear all the time about Petrov never tracking back, no-one points out that Petrov has to do his own job solo up front because Robinson is such a slow f*cker. It cuts both ways.

no, it doesnt. not really.

martin has scored about 2 goals, you could drop him from an attacking point of view , also.

he's coyle's elmander

but lazier

[William the White]

We can play three players on the left then nobody will get through

Two will be enough against three quarters of the opposition... If they don't include Petrov...

...And Robinson...

i wish there was a better defensive choice than Robbo with Gardner in front. There isn't.

[Worthy4England]

We can play three players on the left then nobody will get through

Two will be enough against three quarters of the opposition... If they don't include Petrov...

...And Robinson...

i wish there was a better defensive choice than Robbo with Gardner in front. There isn't.

I know, but there might be a better defensive choice with Ricky @ LB and anyone in front (apart from probably Robbo)

[William the White]

We can play three players on the left then nobody will get through

Two will be enough against three quarters of the opposition... If they don't include Petrov...

...And Robinson...

i wish there was a better defensive choice than Robbo with Gardner in front. There isn't.

I know, but there might be a better defensive choice with Ricky @ LB and anyone in front (apart from probably Robbo)

I've pondered that one - can't think of who...

When we've been shipping goals, and the world (or this forum) is talking about our left being targeted, i think we need more defensive strength there... And we have the players to do it... so, play them...

[Worthy4England]

pondered that one - can't think of who...

When we've been shipping goals, and the world (or this forum) is talking about our left being targeted, i think we need more defensive strength there... And we have the players to do it... so, play them...

Well, we shipped none at Villa, which I think was rather more impressive than none at QPR, where we looked fairly crap 1st half (although that was down to more than Robbo). I agree we need more defensive strength on our left, and am no huge fan of Petrov, but I think the bigger problem is Robbo, so if fit, I'd put Ricky at LB, which should stop or CD's getting dragged out left every attack. He needs much less support than Robbo, so we might find it's less of a problem having Petrov on the park.

[thebish]

pondered that one - can't think of who...

When we've been shipping goals, and the world (or this forum) is talking about our left being targeted, i think we need more defensive strength there... And we have the players to do it... so, play them...

Well, we shipped none at Villa, which I think was rather more impressive than none at QPR, where we looked fairly crap 1st half (although that was down to more than Robbo). I agree we need more defensive strength on our left, and am no huge fan of Petrov, but I think the bigger problem is Robbo, so if fit, I'd put Ricky at LB, which should stop or CD's getting dragged out left every attack. He needs much less support than Robbo, so we might find it's less of a problem having Petrov on the park.

Indeed. Ricky at left back is just OBVIOUS!!! making him play on the left of midfield/wing just exposes his poor final ball!! Ricky at left back is more than capable of handling wiggin.