Time to go

[BL3]

I'm not sure taking the best young players from the top 4 clubs on loan is proof of any genius though.

Why did they come to us rather than any of the other Premier League clubs that wanted them?
Sturridge joined us because of the progress that Wilshere made under Coyle in the previous season.

And yes folk will talk about not much being spent, but hes spent more than Rodgers at Swansea or Lambert at Norwich, and no doubt our wage bill will be far bigger than both of theirs!

Both Norwich and Swansea have spent more than us this season.

[One Hump Or Two?]

But I fear that we could be playing Morecambe in about 5 seasons if we let it go.

Well, we've been in that position before too. This is all in my masterplan. Drop down the full set of divisions (warning: this part is going to hurt a bit, and may consume several agonising years), get a dead-cat bounce back to the third tier, appoint a promising young manager (preferably Scottish), get a couple of deadly strikers in (preferaby also Scottish) and then sit back and enjoy it.

I am not trying to turn this into a Megson thread, really, but I honestly had more fun and satisfaction supporting the Whites in the Bruce Rioch days than I did in our premiership spell under He Who Shall Not be Named.

[Prufrock]

I don't care if we stayed up the first year, he was never the right appointment. At any time.

If it was a choice between scraping to 17th in the PL every year watching Megson-type displays, or getting relegated, knocking around the championship for a few seasons and eventually rebuilding under a Big Sam or Paul Lambert type, I would honestly take the latter.

Most probably would. Trouble is it isn't that choice. Ask Middlesbrough, Coventry, Ipswich, or clubs bigger than us who fell even further in Leeds Forrest and Sheff Wed.

[Prufrock]

The elephant in the room still remains lack of funds. When facing this scenario 4 years ago, we shovelled JCB loads of cash at the problem, more than we've ever done before or since .We don't have that option open to us now.

So based on our current squad, and our current injury crisis, I'm not sure there is the requisite level of miracle worker curretly available on the open market. I'm pretty certain candidates like Hughes will not lower themselves if we haven't a pot to piss in.

The problems at the moment go beyond not having players of good enough quality. He may have had less funds than Megson, but there have been basic organisational, and selection mistakes that go beyond that. He seems to be cottoning onto that though, trying to make us more solid, and picking the right players.

There must be a fecking hex at the moment though. Drops Davo, N'Gog gets injured within half an hour, drops Robbo, Gardner gets sent off. Drops Steinsson and Boyata gets injured.

[Mixu Fattypieman]

The background to all of this is that ultimately, the current 'system' / 'business model' or whatever in the Premier League isn't set-up for clubs like us to succeed. With a club of our size our financial outgoings are more than our incomings. As someone has mentioned earlier, we lose money simply standing still (if not going backwards) in this league.

Over the long-term to keep us on the League we need a (or a series of) good / great manager(s), who can maximise the limited resources at their disposal to keep us ahead of teams with with greater resources than ours.. and lets remember that the vst majority of teams we compete against have greater resources than ours.

As we've found over the last 4-5 years, its difficult to consistently unearth good / great managers. Plus if we did find one he'd probably bugger off to a better team sooner or later anyway.

Sooner or later over a long term period its gonna be difficult to keep our heads above water every single season... and this season could be it. Terrible luck with injuries, terrible luck with fixtures and a manager who at times has been good, but in other aspects seems to struggle.

I'm not excusing how things are currently but this whole debate needs to be set into the context that every single season we are facing an uphill battle, with the odds stacked against us. Sooner or later the wheels were going to fall off.

[Lord Kangana]

The problems at the moment go beyond not having players of good enough quality. He may have had less funds than Megson, but there have been basic organisational, and selection mistakes that go beyond that. He seems to be cottoning onto that though, trying to make us more solid, and picking the right players.

Hang on a second though, Pru, in a League where the spending is seemingly increasing exponentially (certainly amongst a widening group at the top) to not just be maintaining your spending, but actively reducing it wouldn't just equate to "less funds". Its more than likely that, adjusted for inflation (so to speak) our present manager is about £30m worse off against his competiton than the previous incumbent. In a League where spending generally correlates approximately to position, it seems an incredibly important thing.

Theres plenty of managers who are tactically naive, but who by buying lots of good players with bucket loads of cash, have got away with it. Its been Ferguson 's MO for years, and Mancini's first forays in to Europe are suggesting exactly the same. Considering the one (supposed) saving grace of Megson was his transfer record, surely its a very f*cking big thing, in fact the singularly most important thing, to have been starved of transfer funds?

I mean, if the seemingly inevitable replacement arrives and is handed a blank cheque-book, then I'm going to end up with much egg on face. But as it stands, can anyone with any seriousness suggest that we're going to be spending big in any transfer window in the near future? And if we can't, and are still starved of the services of our two best midfielders, surely a new manager is not going to fix much?

[Prufrock]

The problems at the moment go beyond not having players of good enough quality. He may have had less funds than Megson, but there have been basic organisational, and selection mistakes that go beyond that. He seems to be cottoning onto that though, trying to make us more solid, and picking the right players.

Hang on a second though, Pru, in a League where the spending is seemingly increasing exponentially (certainly amongst a widening group at the top) to not just be maintaining your spending, but actively reducing it wouldn't just equate to "less funds". Its more than likely that, adjusted for inflation (so to speak) our present manager is about £30m worse off against his competiton than the previous incumbent. In a League where spending generally correlates approximately to position, it seems an incredibly important thing.

Theres plenty of managers who are tactically naive, but who by buying lots of good players with bucket loads of cash, have got away with it. Its been Ferguson 's MO for years, and Mancini's first forays in to Europe are suggesting exactly the same. Considering the one (supposed) saving grace of Megson was his transfer record, surely its a very f*cking big thing, in fact the singularly most important thing, to have been starved of transfer funds?

I mean, if the seemingly inevitable replacement arrives and is handed a blank cheque-book, then I'm going to end up with much egg on face. But as it stands, can anyone with any seriousness suggest that we're going to be spending big in any transfer window in the near future? And if we can't, and are still starved of the services of our two best midfielders, surely a new manager is not going to fix much?

There's very little I disagree with in there LK; however, whilst Coyle has had less resources than the majority, if not all, of the other managers out there, once the transfer window *slams* shut, you have to compare the players each team has. There are managers who may have thrown more money about, but with worse squads than we do, and at the moment Coyle isn't getting as much from our lot as others are. The financial side means his job is hard, certainly, compare Mr Potato head and the, frankly ludicrous, sums of money he has spent going nowhere, but at the moment those players should be doing better.

I actually think he did well in the transfer window, with very limited money, but the acquisition of players is only one part of the job, and he isn't doing well enough in the other part (difficult as it is due to lack of funding).

[Hoboh]

The problems at the moment go beyond not having players of good enough quality. He may have had less funds than Megson, but there have been basic organisational, and selection mistakes that go beyond that. He seems to be cottoning onto that though, trying to make us more solid, and picking the right players.

Hang on a second though, Pru, in a League where the spending is seemingly increasing exponentially (certainly amongst a widening group at the top) to not just be maintaining your spending, but actively reducing it wouldn't just equate to "less funds". Its more than likely that, adjusted for inflation (so to speak) our present manager is about £30m worse off against his competiton than the previous incumbent. In a League where spending generally correlates approximately to position, it seems an incredibly important thing.
Ageed
Theres plenty of managers who are tactically naive, but who by buying lots of good players with bucket loads of cash, have got away with it. Its been Ferguson 's MO for years, and Mancini's first forays in to Europe are suggesting exactly the same. Considering the one (supposed) saving grace of Megson was his transfer record, surely its a very f*cking big thing, in fact the singularly most important thing, to have been starved of transfer funds?
Ageed
I mean, if the seemingly inevitable replacement arrives and is handed a blank cheque-book, then I'm going to end up with much egg on face. But as it stands, can anyone with any seriousness suggest that we're going to be spending big in any transfer window in the near future? And if we can't, and are still starved of the services of our two best midfielders, surely a new manager is not going to fix much?

Attitude & a gameplan!

[CAPSLOCK]

Surely the discussion isn't 'is he better than Megson'

It has to be, 'can he do the job'

Seeing as we don't really know what the job is, I can't say with any certainty

What I do know is that I see a group of talented footballers looking a complete and utter shambles

Week in, week out

[Bruce Rioja]

See, a friend of mine that works for the club, when asked about Coyle, told me, and I quote "He's as stubborn as a mule and that'll be his undoing".
I think this is probably best displayed by his insistance on playing Pratley every week, as if to justify his decision to bring him in. If 20,000 of us can see that he's 'at best' a Championship player (read also; Eagles, Christopher) why can't / won't Coyle?

[Loyal White]

Surely the discussion isn't 'is he better than Megson'

It has to be, 'can he do the job'

Seeing as we don't really know what the job is, I can't say with any certainty

What I do know is that I see a group of talented footballers looking a complete and utter shambles

Week in, week out

How 'talented' are we though? Realistically how many of our players would get in competitors teams? Cahill? Reo-Coker? Wheater at a push?

I think our team is as weak as it has been for years.

[thebish]

it wasn't THAT long ago that some folk on here seemed worried that a "top club" would come knocking on the door for Coyle and tempt him away with a big bag of sweeties!

to be honest - can't see that happening any time soon! result!! errr...

[Hoboh]

Surely the discussion isn't 'is he better than Megson'

It has to be, 'can he do the job'

Seeing as we don't really know what the job is, I can't say with any certainty

What I do know is that I see a group of talented footballers looking a complete and utter shambles

Week in, week out

How 'talented' are we though? Realistically how many of our players would get in competitors teams? Cahill? Reo-Coker? Wheater at a push?

I think our team is as weak as it has been for years.

Totally disagree with that with the main players we have + a couple of decent fullbacks we should be quite comfortable mid table and able to sring one or two shocks. All teams below the top 6 or 7 have some weaker squad players and we are no exception to that.
The big worry is we seem not to either have faith in our youth or we are still 2-3 years off target for bringing them through. One thing I really fail to get is the Tuncany/Kakuta situation one has played at Prem level is skilfull and by other fans accounts a real grafter and the other must be a raw exceptional talent that Owen is supposed to be good at bringing through yet both are splinter pickers! don't make sense

[BWFC_Wyles]

Definitely time for Coyle to walk or be fired. The issue for me, and it shows how inept he is, is that the team changes every single week in the hope that he will get it right one week. Darren Pratley is by far and away one of the worst players I've ever seen in a Bolton shirt, and that includes Gerald Cid and John O'Kane, yet he still plays him and tells us he's been brilliant!! INSANE.

[RusholmeRuffian]

People forget that when I came into the job we were second from bottom

Oh dear.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... on-swansea

[BWFC_Insane]

People forget that when I came into the job we were second from bottom

Oh dear.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... on-swansea

Hmmmm. I wonder if there will be a serious case of double standards here?

[Hoboh]

I see we still employ Megsons PR advisor! Two words Owen, just don't

[BL3]

See, a friend of mine that works for the club, when asked about Coyle, told me, and I quote "He's as stubborn as a mule and that'll be his undoing".
I think this is probably best displayed by his insistance on playing Pratley every week, as if to justify his decision to bring him in. If 20,000 of us can see that he's 'at best' a Championship player (read also; Eagles, Christopher) why can't / won't Coyle?

He's changed the formation. He's dropped Kevin Davies. He's recalled Wheater. How does that make him 'stubborn'? He's done pretty much everything he can do with the players at his disposal. It's time some of those players started performing.

[Hoboh]

See, a friend of mine that works for the club, when asked about Coyle, told me, and I quote "He's as stubborn as a mule and that'll be his undoing".
I think this is probably best displayed by his insistance on playing Pratley every week, as if to justify his decision to bring him in. If 20,000 of us can see that he's 'at best' a Championship player (read also; Eagles, Christopher) why can't / won't Coyle?

He's changed the formation. He's dropped Kevin Davies. He's recalled Wheater. How does that make him 'stubborn'? He's done pretty much everything he can do with the players at his disposal. It's time some of those players started performing.

So we are now at the Clint Eastwood point of fireing pistols at their feet to make them move are we?
It's the managers job to make them play, there are the odd exception with players turning in a poor display beyond the managers control but hey this as been going on since March! Its down to Owen no one else any players with bad attitude should be shown the door in January unfortunatly we seem to have a breed who will be happy to sit out contracts these days and these are scum!

[Bruce Rioja]

See, a friend of mine that works for the club, when asked about Coyle, told me, and I quote "He's as stubborn as a mule and that'll be his undoing".
I think this is probably best displayed by his insistance on playing Pratley every week, as if to justify his decision to bring him in. If 20,000 of us can see that he's 'at best' a Championship player (read also; Eagles, Christopher) why can't / won't Coyle?

He's changed the formation. He's dropped Kevin Davies. He's recalled Wheater. How does that make him 'stubborn'? He's done pretty much everything he can do with the players at his disposal. It's time some of those players started performing.

Yes, and still stubbornly accomodates shite players like Pratley and Eagles who he won't admit simply aren't up to it.