Time to go

[BWFC_Insane]

BWFCi, I think you're right in that the team has been mismanaged and poorly set up. But I dont think the available players are good enough to improve the position significantly even if they were better organised.We have always conceded soft goals but previously offered more threat going forward.The only option with what is available is to try to set up as harder to beat but I dont think the players have the mental strength to make it work.The current squad is in the habit of losing and there is no leader pulling them together galvanising and organising.Dunne was mentioned as a possible signing and although he has faults he is exactly the kind of loud tough heart on sleave type we totally lack in the core of the team.A signing that makes players around them fight and focus would make a difference. We'd still struggle up front unless we get someone sharp enough to get across the face of a defender and attack a cross but at least we might start to see something that resembles a bit of bottle.
Coyle looks out of his depth and it sounds like the players have no faith in his decisions.I'm only trying to rationalise why this has happened and why he's still here.I think the bottom line is that there are no better alternatives and there is no real money.It's easy to forget how hard managing a club like Bolton must be.Great managers like fergie and Dalgleish can blow 35million/19million on players who dont make the grade. A Bolton manager tries to work miracles on frees and a max spend of 5million on a player. 9mil for Elmander was a drop i8n the ocean compared to the spending of others yet because its a lot for us it becomes a big deal and a focal point.
So who would come in to manage us and who from our current squad can improve us? I cant see any answers.

If you don't think we have a better eleven than Wolves, Swansea, Norwich, QPR, Wigan or Blackburn then that's fine.

But I think we do. By some way.

But we just have a manager who is poorer than the managers of all those teams.

[William the White]

BWFCi, I think you're right in that the team has been mismanaged and poorly set up. But I dont think the available players are good enough to improve the position significantly even if they were better organised.We have always conceded soft goals but previously offered more threat going forward.The only option with what is available is to try to set up as harder to beat but I dont think the players have the mental strength to make it work.The current squad is in the habit of losing and there is no leader pulling them together galvanising and organising.Dunne was mentioned as a possible signing and although he has faults he is exactly the kind of loud tough heart on sleave type we totally lack in the core of the team.A signing that makes players around them fight and focus would make a difference. We'd still struggle up front unless we get someone sharp enough to get across the face of a defender and attack a cross but at least we might start to see something that resembles a bit of bottle.
Coyle looks out of his depth and it sounds like the players have no faith in his decisions.I'm only trying to rationalise why this has happened and why he's still here.I think the bottom line is that there are no better alternatives and there is no real money.It's easy to forget how hard managing a club like Bolton must be.Great managers like fergie and Dalgleish can blow 35million/19million on players who dont make the grade. A Bolton manager tries to work miracles on frees and a max spend of 5million on a player. 9mil for Elmander was a drop i8n the ocean compared to the spending of others yet because its a lot for us it becomes a big deal and a focal point.
So who would come in to manage us and who from our current squad can improve us? I cant see any answers.

If you don't think we have a better eleven than Wolves, Swansea, Norwich, QPR, Wigan or Blackburn then that's fine.

But I think we do. By some way.

But we just have a manager who is poorer than the managers of all those teams.

Several of those have a genuine goal scorer... We don't... That's a good reason why all are more likely to stay up than us...

[Bruce Rioja]

BWFCi, I think you're right in that the team has been mismanaged and poorly set up. But I dont think the available players are good enough to improve the position significantly even if they were better organised.We have always conceded soft goals but previously offered more threat going forward.The only option with what is available is to try to set up as harder to beat but I dont think the players have the mental strength to make it work.The current squad is in the habit of losing and there is no leader pulling them together galvanising and organising.Dunne was mentioned as a possible signing and although he has faults he is exactly the kind of loud tough heart on sleave type we totally lack in the core of the team.A signing that makes players around them fight and focus would make a difference. We'd still struggle up front unless we get someone sharp enough to get across the face of a defender and attack a cross but at least we might start to see something that resembles a bit of bottle.
Coyle looks out of his depth and it sounds like the players have no faith in his decisions.I'm only trying to rationalise why this has happened and why he's still here.I think the bottom line is that there are no better alternatives and there is no real money.It's easy to forget how hard managing a club like Bolton must be.Great managers like fergie and Dalgleish can blow 35million/19million on players who dont make the grade. A Bolton manager tries to work miracles on frees and a max spend of 5million on a player. 9mil for Elmander was a drop i8n the ocean compared to the spending of others yet because its a lot for us it becomes a big deal and a focal point.
So who would come in to manage us and who from our current squad can improve us? I cant see any answers.

If you don't think we have a better eleven than Wolves, Swansea, Norwich, QPR, Wigan or Blackburn then that's fine.

But I think we do. By some way.

But we just have a manager who is poorer than the managers of all those teams.

Aye - Mick McCarthy!

[wanderers_on_tour]

When NGog joined in the summer everyone was saying he was a class player and that all he needed was a arm round his shoulder, same with Tuncay and NRC to some extent. Pre-season you'd have thought this was Owen's biggest strength and despite any tactical naivity we would do alreet, now it just seems we have a team without the confidence in themselves, the manager or perhaps any of the coaching staff. Financially I only imagine we have the pennies to change one of the three but at this rate if any of the coaches we're to step down I imagine we'd just hire bloody Robbie Blake as a replacement.

[BWFC_Insane]

BWFCi, I think you're right in that the team has been mismanaged and poorly set up. But I dont think the available players are good enough to improve the position significantly even if they were better organised.We have always conceded soft goals but previously offered more threat going forward.The only option with what is available is to try to set up as harder to beat but I dont think the players have the mental strength to make it work.The current squad is in the habit of losing and there is no leader pulling them together galvanising and organising.Dunne was mentioned as a possible signing and although he has faults he is exactly the kind of loud tough heart on sleave type we totally lack in the core of the team.A signing that makes players around them fight and focus would make a difference. We'd still struggle up front unless we get someone sharp enough to get across the face of a defender and attack a cross but at least we might start to see something that resembles a bit of bottle.
Coyle looks out of his depth and it sounds like the players have no faith in his decisions.I'm only trying to rationalise why this has happened and why he's still here.I think the bottom line is that there are no better alternatives and there is no real money.It's easy to forget how hard managing a club like Bolton must be.Great managers like fergie and Dalgleish can blow 35million/19million on players who dont make the grade. A Bolton manager tries to work miracles on frees and a max spend of 5million on a player. 9mil for Elmander was a drop i8n the ocean compared to the spending of others yet because its a lot for us it becomes a big deal and a focal point.
So who would come in to manage us and who from our current squad can improve us? I cant see any answers.

If you don't think we have a better eleven than Wolves, Swansea, Norwich, QPR, Wigan or Blackburn then that's fine.

But I think we do. By some way.

But we just have a manager who is poorer than the managers of all those teams.

Several of those have a genuine goal scorer... We don't... That's a good reason why all are more likely to stay up than us...

Klasnic? QPR are playing Helguson for christs sake! How many before the start of the season would have swapped our strike force for Norwich's? Or swanseas for that matter?

We have players to comprise a team who are capable of finishing above those sides. No doubt in my mind.

And Bruce, you can laugh at Mick McCarthy but I'd pay for his taxi up here to swap him for Coyle, well I would have done two months ago but it's a bit late now! But McCarthy will at the very least give Wolves a decent stab at staying up.....

[Lord Kangana]

That'd be "dropping like a stone" QPR.

[BWFC_Insane]

That'd be "dropping like a stone" QPR.

Yeah and they'd be just one of a number of clubs we'd be above with any sort of a half decent manager!

[irie Cee Bee]

So players are unhappy with the managers tactics hence they have been putting out no fight on the pitch ? Is that why Klasnic has looked so disinterested in the last 2 games to the extent that he cant control a ball on his chest when sent free or stay on his feet to take a shot? Something he used to do with his eyes closed ??

And that's Coyles fault due to mis-management ? I thought players have a responsibility to at least put out an effort when they put on the shirt or should OC go out and play himself ? I just dont get it.

[ChrisC]

On the subject of are we better than the teams around us.. I would say the proof is in our results against them..

Beat Blackburn, Wigan, QPR and should of finished Wolves off first half.. We are playing shite and still not been beaten by the four above us and I personally believe we can get 17th with 3 of the other 4 dropping..

Not giving up yet although I am definitely in the Coyle out camp.

[thebish]

On the subject of are we better than the teams around us.. I would say the proof is in our results against them..

Beat Blackburn, Wigan, QPR and should of finished Wolves off first half.. We are playing shite and still not been beaten by the four above us and I personally believe we can get 17th with 3 of the other 4 dropping..

good man! it's FAR from over yet...

[Sponge]

On the subject of are we better than the teams around us.. I would say the proof is in our results against them..

Beat Blackburn, Wigan, QPR and should of finished Wolves off first half.. We are playing shite and still not been beaten by the four above us and I personally believe we can get 17th with 3 of the other 4 dropping..

Not giving up yet although I am definitely in the Coyle out camp.

Is that an inkling of hope you've just kindled inside me? I'll never forgive you for that!

[ChrisC]

On the subject of are we better than the teams around us.. I would say the proof is in our results against them..

Beat Blackburn, Wigan, QPR and should of finished Wolves off first half.. We are playing shite and still not been beaten by the four above us and I personally believe we can get 17th with 3 of the other 4 dropping..

Not giving up yet although I am definitely in the Coyle out camp.

Is that an inkling of hope you've just kindled inside me? I'll never forgive you for that!

That's the spirit!

[Ianmooreslovechild]

It's the hope that kills you.By Chris' reckoning Blackburn must be better than Man U and Villa better than Chelsea.Er as regards who has the best players QPR Blackburn and Wigan have spent more than us over the last few years havent they? Norwich and Swansea clearly are well managed but better players,hard to say,just cos you havent heard of them or theyve been playing in the championship doesnt mean they arent better than what we have.But I take the point these teams are being better managed. My question is still who in their right mind would want to manage bolton now?

[bwfc]

The problem after todays results is that there is a definite gap that has been created.

Luckily QPR & Wolves didn't get results but every other team above them did and there is now a bottom five.

Norwich are now on 25 points and Swansea 23 points, they are well on their way to safety and they are supposedly the weaker of the promoted sides. QPR and Wolves to an extent will throw money at staying up and they have the 4 point buffer zone at the moment.

I would have more confidence if it wasn't for our upcoming fixtures.

[thebish]

I would have more confidence if it wasn't for our upcoming fixtures.

we've left ourselves a mountain to climb....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The problem after todays results is that there is a definite gap that has been created.

Luckily QPR & Wolves didn't get results but every other team above them did and there is now a bottom five.

Norwich are now on 25 points and Swansea 23 points, they are well on their way to safety and they are supposedly the weaker of the promoted sides. QPR and Wolves to an extent will throw money at staying up and they have the 4 point buffer zone at the moment.

I would have more confidence if it wasn't for our upcoming fixtures.

Wolves won't throw money at it but QPR definitely will and as you say the division has shaken out a little over the last four rounds.

In those rounds, we played Fulham, Blackburn, Newcastle and Wolves, a run of winnable games pinpointed as crucial by the club captain ("massive") and leading goalscorer (“If we win four games, it will be different. I want four wins because after that, everything would change. No one would moan about what has happened up to now. It's something we have to do.”)

From those four games we wanted 12 points, arguably needed 9 or 10, but only got four, which would be just about acceptable if extended over the full season, but there's the rub. Before those four games there were seven teams averaging 1ppg or less. Now there's only five, because other teams have kicked on and we haven't, except to the meagre 1ppg level which won't save us.

Yes, we beat Blackburn, but they then won at Old Trafford in the type of fixture everyone at BWFC appears to have written off, focusing instead on the "winnable" games against the bottom teams. But in those four rounds Wigan have held Chelsea and Liverpool, Blackburn have won at Old Trafford and drawn at Anfield, Wolves got a point at Arsenal (and were a minute off one against Chelsea), and Fulham have drawn at Chelsea and beaten Arsenal to now go 10 points clear of us, a gap that looks insurmountable unless something changes massively. Yes, QPR are dropping, but they'll make three or four big signings this month.

I'm glad we managed to finally hold out for a draw rather than collapsing (although the corollary of that is that we lost our habit of always winning after scoring first, the last team in the division to lose that 100% record). Perhaps we might even be seeing the stirrings of tactical nous, and might have a chance if we can hire some better game-changing options this month. But I'd much rather the draw hadn't come against one of the key teams we need to catch up.

[Worthy4England]

All most eloquent and well reasoned as ever DSB.

To summarise. We're fecked.

[thebish]

All most eloquent and well reasoned as ever DSB.

To summarise. We're fecked.

nahhh - it'll be reet!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'm somewhere in the middle. We're not out of sight yet: we're still only four points off 17th, which is actually one fewer than we were before the Fulham game. And we're showing some positive signs: twice this month we've been denied by sterling performances from visiting goalkeepers.

But this run of games – including, before Fulham, the visit of a very poor Villa side – was our best chance to haul ourselves out of trouble. Other sides have upped their game over the Christmas fortnight. So have we, but still only to a point per game. Looking at this month's fixtures I'd be happy to keep that average going in January, but you fear that it might not be enough and we may be further adrift by the time the window closes. Then we have two huge games, at Norwich and home to Wigan, before trips to Chelsea and Man City. The future's so shite I gotta wear blades.

[Armchair Wanderer]

I'm somewhere in the middle. We're not out of sight yet: we're still only four points off 17th, which is actually one fewer than we were before the Fulham game. And we're showing some positive signs: twice this month we've been denied by sterling performances from visiting goalkeepers.

You mean last month I think

The Wolves game looked one of the better performances this year by us, maybe the goalkeeper had a blinder, can't remember. The game before (I think I'm talking about Newcastle) most of our shots on target I could have saved without my specs on. Maybe we have probs with our strikers or maybe it's the midfield that isn't getting the right balls through?

Nothing to be optimistic about for me, especially if it's true that Klasnic is having a strop.