The Politics Thread

[thebish]

£50 million???? to relocate Trident??

what planet are you on?? ahhhhh - planet Hoboh!

Why? how much will it take to sail a couple of subs to barrow or portsmouth were the inferstructure is in place already?
Just think of the jobs and boost to local econnomys bish
Just as an after thought we should target the scottish white elephant in Edinbrugh with cruise missiles right after independance because we could deem them historially a terrorist state

there is no room at barrow or portsmouth you numpty!!

and - the infrastructure is NOT in place!! It cost about £2billion to build HMNB Clyde - and that was decades ago!

you can't just park a nuclear sub in portsmouth marina!

[BWFC_Insane]

to sum up;

BWFCI wants an open purse sociaty

Most others want an affordable sociaty

Simples, get your free Meerkat here

No, I want a society where we look after each other. Where corporate and personal greed does not dominate. Tick

Where people are intelligent enough to look behind the inflammatory headlines and politicians lies. You cannot blame the press for everything unless you really think the Sun won it for the tory's

Where people with needs are helped and encouraged, and not disenfranchised.
Here here
Where people are given the opportunity and encouragement to work.
Tottally agree
Where all nationalities, races and religions are treated with respect and dignity.
Yep but any further influx is serverly curtailed and they have to play by our standerdsWhere criminals of all ages, races, are treated appropriately, and properly discouraged from re-offending.
Way to soft you don't treat you punish harshly this so called treatment like baning corprol punishment ain't worked for years so why not save the cash and whip the SOB's if they don't play ball?
Where teachers are given the respect they deserve from society, parents and their pupils.
Aye when they do their jobs and stop paying their politically intrusive unions

etc etc....

See give or take the odd nuke or two we ain't more than half a million years apart

Lots of people believe headlines in the press. Its dangerous. As a country we're not nearly cynical or investigative enough to actually look up the facts.

Think you miss the point on races, nationalities etc, I want to encourage diversity, open up our minds, not say that everyone has to "do what we say". Obviously within the bounds of our laws....

I didn't specify what deterrents to crime would be. I'd be happy with anything that is proven to work.

Teachers unions "overly intrusive"? Do me a favour....

They were responsable for the break down of discipline in schools and treat the kids future lightly with all the "action" they keep taking which effects adults trying to go to work by leaving them no option other than to take time off impacting on the ecconomy, so yes intrusive!

Teachers unions responsible for the breakdown of discipline in schools. You'll have to explain that one to me....

[Hoboh]

[quote="BWFC_Insane
No, I want a society where we look after each other. Where corporate and personal greed does not dominate. Tick

Where people are intelligent enough to look behind the inflammatory headlines and politicians lies. You cannot blame the press for everything unless you really think the Sun won it for the tory's

Where people with needs are helped and encouraged, and not disenfranchised.
Here here
Where people are given the opportunity and encouragement to work.
Tottally agree
Where all nationalities, races and religions are treated with respect and dignity.
Yep but any further influx is serverly curtailed and they have to play by our standerdsWhere criminals of all ages, races, are treated appropriately, and properly discouraged from re-offending.
Way to soft you don't treat you punish harshly this so called treatment like baning corprol punishment ain't worked for years so why not save the cash and whip the SOB's if they don't play ball?
Where teachers are given the respect they deserve from society, parents and their pupils.
Aye when they do their jobs and stop paying their politically intrusive unions

etc etc....

See give or take the odd nuke or two we ain't more than half a million years apart

Lots of people believe headlines in the press. Its dangerous. As a country we're not nearly cynical or investigative enough to actually look up the facts.

Think you miss the point on races, nationalities etc, I want to encourage diversity, open up our minds, not say that everyone has to "do what we say". Obviously within the bounds of our laws....

I didn't specify what deterrents to crime would be. I'd be happy with anything that is proven to work.

Teachers unions "overly intrusive"? Do me a favour....

They were responsable for the break down of discipline in schools and treat the kids future lightly with all the "action" they keep taking which effects adults trying to go to work by leaving them no option other than to take time off impacting on the ecconomy, so yes intrusive!

Teachers unions responsible for the breakdown of discipline in schools. You'll have to explain that one to me....[/quote]

But meanwhile, all through the 1960s and 1970s there was determined campaigning by a small group of anti-CP activists within the teaching trade unions and the Labour party, which (for reasons to do with Britain's highly eccentric and undemocratic voting system) controlled most of the urban local education authorities (LEAs). For a long time this activism behind the scenes remained largely invisible to the outside world, but it all came to fruition, more rapidly than anyone expected, in the 1980s. A small number of the most radical Labour-controlled LEAs began to abolish the cane

Both your bitches at work on it BWFCI should do more revision

[Hoboh]

£50 million???? to relocate Trident??

what planet are you on?? ahhhhh - planet Hoboh!

Why? how much will it take to sail a couple of subs to barrow or portsmouth were the inferstructure is in place already?
Just think of the jobs and boost to local econnomys bish
Just as an after thought we should target the scottish white elephant in Edinbrugh with cruise missiles right after independance because we could deem them historially a terrorist state

there is no room at barrow or portsmouth you numpty!!

and - the infrastructure is NOT in place!! It cost about £2billion to build HMNB Clyde - and that was decades ago!

you can't just park a nuclear sub in portsmouth marina!

You ever been past Watford bish? there's loads of room at Barrow and have all the naval dock yards and ports closed down south? You could at a pinch stick them in Holyhead or fleetwood (I pass on liverpool the scousers would be nicking the reactors for their central heating hot water systems)

[BWFC_Insane]

[quote="BWFC_Insane
No, I want a society where we look after each other. Where corporate and personal greed does not dominate. Tick

Where people are intelligent enough to look behind the inflammatory headlines and politicians lies. You cannot blame the press for everything unless you really think the Sun won it for the tory's

Where people with needs are helped and encouraged, and not disenfranchised.
Here here
Where people are given the opportunity and encouragement to work.
Tottally agree
Where all nationalities, races and religions are treated with respect and dignity.
Yep but any further influx is serverly curtailed and they have to play by our standerdsWhere criminals of all ages, races, are treated appropriately, and properly discouraged from re-offending.
Way to soft you don't treat you punish harshly this so called treatment like baning corprol punishment ain't worked for years so why not save the cash and whip the SOB's if they don't play ball?
Where teachers are given the respect they deserve from society, parents and their pupils.
Aye when they do their jobs and stop paying their politically intrusive unions

etc etc....

See give or take the odd nuke or two we ain't more than half a million years apart

Lots of people believe headlines in the press. Its dangerous. As a country we're not nearly cynical or investigative enough to actually look up the facts.

Think you miss the point on races, nationalities etc, I want to encourage diversity, open up our minds, not say that everyone has to "do what we say". Obviously within the bounds of our laws....

I didn't specify what deterrents to crime would be. I'd be happy with anything that is proven to work.

Teachers unions "overly intrusive"? Do me a favour....

They were responsable for the break down of discipline in schools and treat the kids future lightly with all the "action" they keep taking which effects adults trying to go to work by leaving them no option other than to take time off impacting on the ecconomy, so yes intrusive!

Teachers unions responsible for the breakdown of discipline in schools. You'll have to explain that one to me....

But meanwhile, all through the 1960s and 1970s there was determined campaigning by a small group of anti-CP activists within the teaching trade unions and the Labour party, which (for reasons to do with Britain's highly eccentric and undemocratic voting system) controlled most of the urban local education authorities (LEAs). For a long time this activism behind the scenes remained largely invisible to the outside world, but it all came to fruition, more rapidly than anyone expected, in the 1980s. A small number of the most radical Labour-controlled LEAs began to abolish the cane

Both your bitches at work on it BWFCI should do more revision [/quote]

Right so 1) you are assuming that the breakdown of discipline in schools is down to the abolition of Corporal Punishment. There is a very vast amount of research to say that is simply not the case.

But even if I go with that one, in your own quote you say "a minority within"....thats hardly down to the teaching trade union, anymore than you can say the vote they had a year ago where 20% of NUT teachers wanted the cane returned to schools means that the union is now "activist" in campaigning for the restoration of corporal punishment.

You might want to ask which PM pushed through the law banning physical punishment in schools. And why they even missed the house of commons vote in order to ensure it got through parliament without them having to openly upset the backbenchers on their party...

If you really wanna blame someone.......

[thebish]

£50 million???? to relocate Trident??

what planet are you on?? ahhhhh - planet Hoboh!

Why? how much will it take to sail a couple of subs to barrow or portsmouth were the inferstructure is in place already?
Just think of the jobs and boost to local econnomys bish
Just as an after thought we should target the scottish white elephant in Edinbrugh with cruise missiles right after independance because we could deem them historially a terrorist state

there is no room at barrow or portsmouth you numpty!!

and - the infrastructure is NOT in place!! It cost about £2billion to build HMNB Clyde - and that was decades ago!

you can't just park a nuclear sub in portsmouth marina!

You ever been past Watford bish? there's loads of room at Barrow and have all the naval dock yards and ports closed down south? You could at a pinch stick them in Holyhead or fleetwood (I pass on liverpool the scousers would be nicking the reactors for their central heating hot water systems)

most experts agree that just about the only reasonably feasible places to relocate would be Devonport... but that would cost billions - not millions... or Milford Haven - but that's in Wales - and why risk the same possibility of THEM wanting independence one day!!

devonport is a whole lot closer to significant centres of population than the Clyde base - and i suspect that planning laws and the general regulatory environment would be a whole lot tougher than it was 40 years ago - look at the fuss over high speed rail f'rinstance... (plus - devonport is already very busy)

[Hoboh]

Right so 1) you are assuming that the breakdown of discipline in schools is down to the abolition of Corporal Punishment. There is a very vast amount of research to say that is simply not the case.

But even if I go with that one, in your own quote you say "a minority within"....thats hardly down to the teaching trade union, anymore than you can say the vote they had a year ago where 20% of NUT teachers wanted the cane returned to schools means that the union is now "activist" in campaigning for the restoration of corporal punishment.

You might want to ask which PM pushed through the law banning physical punishment in schools. And why they even missed the vote in order to ensure it got through parliament without them having to openly upset the backbenchers on their party...

If you really wanna blame someone.......

It was the Harriet types who were elected to positions of power by the union members say with the Labour party!! Why is it always some one elses fault except teachers or Labour?
Maybe a suprise to you but I ain't no Tory (The current lot are far too soft and Maggie cocked up with the poll tax and sold off a few companies too far IMHO) and I will be more than happy to lambast those as well as Labour

[Hoboh]

most experts agree that just about the only reasonably feasible places to relocate would be Devonport... but that would cost billions - not millions... or Milford Haven - but that's in Wales - and why risk the same possibility of THEM wanting independence one day!!

devonport is a whole lot closer to significant centres of population than the Clyde base - and i suspect that planning laws and the general regulatory environment would be a whole lot tougher than it was 40 years ago - look at the fuss over high speed rail f'rinstance... (plus - devonport is already very busy)

Actually I'd scrap Trident and stick more warheads on cruise missiles on planes and surface ships along with stuffing some ICBM's in bunkers out on the moors if thats any help but I was thinking of the skilled ship workers jobs thats all

[thebish]

most experts agree that just about the only reasonably feasible places to relocate would be Devonport... but that would cost billions - not millions... or Milford Haven - but that's in Wales - and why risk the same possibility of THEM wanting independence one day!!

devonport is a whole lot closer to significant centres of population than the Clyde base - and i suspect that planning laws and the general regulatory environment would be a whole lot tougher than it was 40 years ago - look at the fuss over high speed rail f'rinstance... (plus - devonport is already very busy)

Actually I'd scrap Trident and stick more warheads on cruise missiles on planes and surface ships along with stuffing some ICBM's in bunkers out on the moors if thats any help but I was thinking of the skilled ship workers jobs thats all

are you still telling me that it is feasible to relocate Trident to Barrow for £50million?

[BWFC_Insane]

Right so 1) you are assuming that the breakdown of discipline in schools is down to the abolition of Corporal Punishment. There is a very vast amount of research to say that is simply not the case.

But even if I go with that one, in your own quote you say "a minority within"....thats hardly down to the teaching trade union, anymore than you can say the vote they had a year ago where 20% of NUT teachers wanted the cane returned to schools means that the union is now "activist" in campaigning for the restoration of corporal punishment.

You might want to ask which PM pushed through the law banning physical punishment in schools. And why they even missed the vote in order to ensure it got through parliament without them having to openly upset the backbenchers on their party...

If you really wanna blame someone.......

It was the Harriet types who were elected to positions of power by the union members say with the Labour party!! Why is it always some one elses fault except teachers or Labour?
Maybe a suprise to you but I ain't no Tory (The current lot are far too soft and Maggie cocked up with the poll tax and sold off a few companies too far IMHO) and I will be more than happy to lambast those as well as Labour

Nonsense. There will be plenty of teachers in unions at the time, fully supportive of giving kids a good beating...

You still havent told me who pushed the bill through parliament to get it banned. Thats the only party you should be "blaming" if blame does indeed need aportioning....

[Hoboh]

most experts agree that just about the only reasonably feasible places to relocate would be Devonport... but that would cost billions - not millions... or Milford Haven - but that's in Wales - and why risk the same possibility of THEM wanting independence one day!!

devonport is a whole lot closer to significant centres of population than the Clyde base - and i suspect that planning laws and the general regulatory environment would be a whole lot tougher than it was 40 years ago - look at the fuss over high speed rail f'rinstance... (plus - devonport is already very busy)

Actually I'd scrap Trident and stick more warheads on cruise missiles on planes and surface ships along with stuffing some ICBM's in bunkers out on the moors if thats any help but I was thinking of the skilled ship workers jobs thats all

are you still telling me that it is feasible to relocate Trident to Barrow for £50million?

Aye they build the buggers there so it would be fair to say they know how to handle them anyway whats a couple of buttie vans and a few landmines cost these days? thought the landmines would be picked up cheap as surplus stock couple of hungry big dogs bit of barbeb wire and a licence to kill should do the trick

[thebish]

are you still telling me that it is feasible to relocate Trident to Barrow for £50million?

Aye they build the buggers there so it would be fair to say they know how to handle them anyway whats a couple of buttie vans and a few landmines cost these days? thought the landmines would be picked up cheap as surplus stock couple of hungry big dogs bit of barbeb wire and a licence to kill should do the trick

phew!! in that case - I can file this conversation under the heading "ramblings of a deluded lunatic!"

[Hoboh]

are you still telling me that it is feasible to relocate Trident to Barrow for £50million?

Aye they build the buggers there so it would be fair to say they know how to handle them anyway whats a couple of buttie vans and a few landmines cost these days? thought the landmines would be picked up cheap as surplus stock couple of hungry big dogs bit of barbeb wire and a licence to kill should do the trick

phew!! in that case - I can file this conversation under the heading "ramblings of a deluded lunatic!"

I must make it quite plain I object to sharing a shelf or file with "brother or Comrade" BWFCI I thank you!

BTW for 50 mill they can dig up my lawn and park the buggers here if they want!

[thebish]

Hobes...

one of the little tiny requirements of submarines is that they go best in the water...

[Hoboh]

Hobes...

one of the little tiny requirements of submarines is that they go best in the water...

There is a pond and stream round the back fella so one part of the criteria is met

[Prufrock]

I think BWFCi and Bobo have just summed up everything I dislike about politics. Partisanship .....................

Bravo.

Correct & very much the reason I rarely intervene on here.

I honestly believe that people's political views are rarely changed and generally become more entrenched by debate and so see it as pretty futile.


I'll, again, withdraw. But only after agreeing with Bish (rare, I know) that Alex Salmond really does need a good slap.

You're always bloody on here! You need one of those iPhone messages at the end of your posts "posted in a thread a, honestly, don't usually frequent"

[Prufrock]

I think BWFCi and Bobo have just summed up everything I dislike about politics. Partisanship. Get. Rid.

BWFCi has just suggested the Tory government only care about the rich. First of all there is no Tory government, but of those who are, I think most, argue you what you will with their methods, want good for the British people. Sure, it's arguable the ideas of many probably favour the rich, if that's your political persuasion (it's mine), but it isn't (immorally) conscious. Of the Tory party, you're talking a small minority of backbenchers and I don't know how many (I suspect a very small number of) peers who would be against the general ideas of the idea of state intervention in health, education and the like. They want the same outcomes, so question them on policy, not on them being evil (that is a fair topic for the irreverent angry thread, but surely not this), you give up the battleground far too cheaply. To suggest the Tory party would rather disabled people didn't exist is a magnificent display of I don't-know-what.

I, as a 'lefty liberal', am willing to go on record that I actually quite like Cameron. I think he means well. I thought he was piss poor in the EU veto, but otherwise I think he has been a good leader, his intention is good and he tries to get his government to work towards those intentions. I think a lot of government policy is wrong but I don't see how that means its leader is a bad person.

Equally, I don't know how Blair was a con-trick. He did very well to con the British public (individually often idiotic, collectively often right) three times. Domestically a fantastic politician. Foreign policy wise almost almost right. Except for one major exception. Possibly. Iraq is a matter for a different debate, but to call Blair a 'con-trick' is revisionism and one-issueism, or if neither, blind partisanship, of the top, top (Jamie) order.

I'm unsure how Brown being indigestible, or peevish, makes him more, or less, disgusting than Thatcher.

Please, it seems there is a very serious issue of disabled people feeling very unfairly treated. Can we discuss it in terms of facts, not calling the other lot's leader 'evil' or conniving?!

Thats incredibly naive IMHO. I don't think many politicians "mean well" beyond self preservation and not just in political terms.

Cameron, Blair would sell their own grandmothers for another 5 years and some juicy "consultancy" roles afterwards, probably with companies they have indirectly "awarded" some sort of contract to during their time in power, all very above board *cough cough*....

Best intentions? My arse.

Just so happened that Blair wanted to try and improve society through improving the NHS and Education system, something I agree with. He didn't do it out of the kindness of his own heart or any great principle, but to win votes, and set himself up for life, which he did very well.

Same with Cameron, except he wants to do it the opposite way by ripping the social infrastructure from the country, painting all our problems as being scrounging public sector workers, dividing society, punishing those least able to take the punishment and generally protecting his mates in the city, save for some token gestures. Your disabled example is one of many where this government have "lied" about consulting and listening. If they at least were lieing to do vaguely positive things I could get by. But they're not...

They have brainwashed the populous into thinking that whatever they do is ok, cos we have some national debt. As though it were a ticking timebomb, which it isn't. Having brainwashed the sheep into believing that they can pretty much do what they like, in the name of "deficit reduction". If there was even a carefully thought out strategy I'd give them some credit. But its just willy nilly ideological decisions.

As for evil, thats a very subjective word...

Personally and this is a personal opinion, I don't think there is much good about the bloke, but there is plenty of nastiness and conniving....

He has a first in PPE from Oxford, if he was in life for the money, he wouldn't have gone into politics!

[Lord Kangana]

I've just seen Red Ed's successor on QT tonight I reckon. Quietly impressed by the boy Alexander.

[Hoboh]

I've just seen Red Ed's successor on QT tonight I reckon. Quietly impressed by the boy Alexander.

Suppose with an aproval like that he's another designated sh*t head

[Salford Trotter]

As pointed out previously David M will be the next leader he's just waiting in the wings for little bro Ed to fail..the end is nigh