JUST FCUK OFF

[jimbo]

I'll bite.........

It isn't one formation change that has backfired though is it? How many points dio we have from the last 38 games? I'd be amazed if it was over 30. Saturday was the turning point, the trigger cause that got everyone mad. It's been building up for ages, and that was the final straw for many.

As for Petrov being 'just grand' in a 4-5-1, he's a damn site better there than in a 4-4-2. He has less to worry about what's going on behind him, and more license to attack. Same with Eagles. The times they both look lost and ineffective are when they have to try and defend, which neither can do well.

Wheater? Well, you obviously can't put his lead boots down to formation, but at the moment there's no one else to put there. We've been terrible dealing with set pieces all season. Not a formation issue, but an organisational one, which again comes down to the gaffer.

How many goals has N'Gog scored in a 4-5-1? 1 I think. But he's played pretty well, worked hard, and others have come into their own in that system like Reo Coker and Mark Davies. As long as the team is scoring and the team is winning, I don't give a flying feck how many goals our lone striker is getting and whether he needs help.

And also, what was Coyle's personel mistake then? I'm intrigued.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

to get a must win at Stoke - i'd play 4-4-2 yes.
not with Klasnic and Davies mind- we can do better than that now
and not with Petrov

most of the rest of your post i agree with - although i'm not as negative regarding the team Coyle might build in the Summer or the consensus you seem to think exists about our best personnel

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

in the match thread i wanted Tuncay to be given a start up front or at least with a free role.
Muamba would have been in the team - but we dont know what went on. In Moo'sabsence i'd have played Pratley who can actually run about a bit - but of course everyone knows he's a useless cnut- and possibly Miyachi for Petrov (although that last one is probably in retrospect)
if the forum darling Davies M had to play i'd have put him on the right for Eagles making a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3- with Miyachi pushing on.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

oh and how is being outjumped an "organisational" issue?

[jimbo]

oh and how is being outjumped an "organisational" issue?

It isn't.

What I said was that you can't legislate for someone not jumping. I also said we have been shit all season at defending set pieces (stats not to hand, pleased to be proven wrong if I am) which IS an organisational issue. That comes down to coaching.

[Tombwfc]

I'd suggest that we've seen we can do better than the team and system that was playing in the first Wigan game, given the good results against Everton, Arsenal and Liverpool, and the utterly shit results against Norwich, Wolves, Newcastle, Villa, Sunderland, Fulham, Swansea, West Brom and Everton at home.

Also, it's not like our strikers score loads more when paired with someone else up front. By my count, we've played 4-4-2 on 9 occaisons since the Stoke game. N'Gog and Davies have scored none, Klasnic has a tap-in against Villa and a penalty against West Brom.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

all fair comment i suppose
there's plenty of games when i reckon its entirely appropriate to play 4-5-1
and there are games when OC has done- it's not like there's been a game this season where he's had to play 4-5-1 and just thereby "stumbled" on to it. we have always had at least two strikers available iirc.
but i don't think losing against Wigan was all to do with 4-5-1 any more than i think beating them was all down to 4-4-2.

and i think there ARE plenty on here who think we would be shooting up the league if we played 4-5-1
the same lot who ridiculed Muamba a season or so back for his lack of passing/shooting/general ability and who have Pratley as the worst player to play in the Premier League.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

I think it's more that people thought we 'would have' shot up the league had we started with & persisted with 4-5-1 a couple of months ago when it was obvious 4-4-2 wasnt working (Wigan away game aside). Draw here, draw there, win, lose, draw, draw, win etc. As it is now, we will have to chase games to win points which will mean OC probably sticking with his 'attacking' formation and us getting dicked again each week....the longer it goes on and the more we lose, the more he'll think we have to adopt it to go for games, which is just great, lots to look forward to...!

[Lord Kangana]

Hughes will soon be out of a job, so I say we wait for him.

That or Warnock. Or McCarthy.

[Ianmooreslovechild]

I think more people who thought we 'would have' shot up the league had we started with & persisted with 4-5-1 a couple of months ago when it was obvious 4-4-2 wasnt working (Wigan away game aside). As it is now, we will have to chase games to win points which will mean OC probably sticking with his 'attacking' formation and us getting dicked again each week....the longer it goes on and the more we lose, the more he'll think we have to adopt it to go for games, which is just great, lots to look forward to...1

Pretty much the way I see it. Of course the formation makes a huge difference especially when you have to take into account the numerous limitations of what we have.I cant be arsed arguing any more about it.If there are people who believe 442 works for us and will get us out of trouble then great I hope you're right.
As an aside I suspect Warnock will be off to wolves and I'm not in the least bit worried about them improving now because everyone knows how shit that cnut warnock is so wolves will be doomed wont they.
That leaves curbishley(who is always mentioned and never appointed) and Bruce(who is pants) so even more a case of stick with coyle regardless now I guess.

[Worthy4England]

but as opposed to Megson's time we are only one or two decent results away from most being back on side again
even you were a bit more chipper after the Arsenal and Lpool games

rightly or wrongly we cant say that about Megson's time

But Saturday was the moment it changed for everyone. He had seemingly learned, we'd changed to 4-5-1, things were picking up and things were working. Then, in some absolute brain fart of a moment he's forgotten all of that to switch to the system that has picked up about 5 points all season. And it failed, miserably. He hasn't learned, he's still tactically naive, and he still seemingly hasn't got a clue.

really? everyone?
one formation change that backfired and we should get rid?
4-5-1 is the panacea- right i've got it now. nothing to do with Petrov being the laziest fcker on the planet- put him in a
4-5-1 he'll be just grand. nowt to do with the fact Wheater could have got a Yellow Pages under his feet on that cross- in a
4-5-1 he'd have leapt like a stag.

how many goals has our lone striker in a
4-5-1 scored? yet everyone can see he didn't need another body up there to help against the bottom of the table side- at home.

personnel not formation was Coyle's "mistake" - i reckon he won't make it again

No, not one formation change that backfired so we get rid. Accumlation of points over the season that leaves us in 19th so we get rid.

Petrov and Wheater were Coyle signings, as was our lone striker.

One thing I'd say about Petrov at weekend (as Coyle got a lot of stick for subbing him) was that actually, he didn't manage to get a cross in above 2 feet off the ground, even from a corner, for most of the first half.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

well at least your consistent
you voiced your misgivings even after Livepool etc.
but if we'd beat Wigan as, i'm convinced we would have if the eleven on the pitch had shown even a semblance of the effort and commitment they had in the game s mentioned then we wouldn't be 19th would we?
therefore it does come down to "one formation change that backfired"- if you are right and it was Coyle's stubborness in picking that formation that cost us the Wigan game not the players attitude.

[officer_dibble]

i wouldnt of minded 442 so much if hed of lined up:
Bogdan
Steinson
Ricketts
Wheater
Knightmare
Muamba
NRC
Petrov
Eagles
Klasnic
Ngog

[Lord Kangana]

Aye, its the Muamba issue.

Is SKD exerting too much influence perchance?

I mean, apart from bollox-analysis, we haven't heard what this reason is that The Moo was hinting at. What is it? Beyong the screaming hysterics.

[Peter Thompson]

Dear me - no wonder we're in so much shit with a knob like Coyle at the helm...apparently tactics don't matter, he needs to go back a few decades and manage in the 70's because he's fecking clueless in the modern era

Even calamity Knight eludes to the confusion "It would be easy to pick on little things like the formations and how it is changing from week to week"

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... t_tactical_/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Gary the Enfield]

i wouldnt of minded 442 so much if hed of lined up:
Bogdan
Steinson
Ricketts
Wheater
Knightmare
Muamba
NRC
Petrov
Eagles
Klasnic
Ngog

Isn't that 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1?

We'd be ripped apart on the wings!

[BWFC_Insane]

Coyle thinks its got nothing to do with tactics and it's all about players.

Perhaps he should go and give Mourinho some of that wisdom, tell him 'looks Jose youre all wrong, all your hundred page dossiers about the other teams tactics, the meticulous preparation work you do into nullifying the other team, working on your own team shape when attacking and defending, it all counts for shit. All you do is send out 11 players and hope for the best. That's real management Jose'

[Peter Thompson]

With a managerial / thought process like that he shouldn't be allowed near a professional club.

If tactics don't matter to Coyle, its no wonder all they do is play fecking ping pong all day - it gets worse by the day, he's so far out of his depth its laughable. His style is to send any 11 players out onto the pitch and if they play well we'll win, regardless of who we're playing or the shape and formation the opposition use - its unbelievable it really is....what exactly is he being paid millions to do ?

[Sponge]

Dear me - no wonder we're in so much shit with a knob like Coyle at the helm...apparently tactics don't matter, he needs to go back a few decades and manage in the 70's because he's fecking clueless in the modern era

Even calamity Knight eludes to the confusion "It would be easy to pick on little things like the formations and how it is changing from week to week"

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... t_tactical_/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ha—I'm certain that's sly dig from ZK, otherwise why add "...and how it is changing from week to week"?

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Coyle thinks its got nothing to do with tactics and it's all about players.

Perhaps he should go and give Mourinho some of that wisdom, tell him 'looks Jose youre all wrong, all your hundred page dossiers about the other teams tactics, the meticulous preparation work you do into nullifying the other team, working on your own team shape when attacking and defending, it all counts for shit. All you do is send out 11 players and hope for the best. That's real management Jose'

You missed out 'being totally convinced that we can get out of it'