Learning from Muamba

[Bruce Rioja]

he's not had a heart attack ^^

Can someone explain to me (as if you were explaining to a child) the difference between a cardiac arrest and a heart attack, please?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

he's not had a heart attack ^^

Can someone explain to me (as if you were explaining to a child) the difference between a cardiac arrest and a heart attack, please?

Not a1, I imagine.

(with love, a1)

[Verbal]

he's not had a heart attack ^^

Can someone explain to me (as if you were explaining to a child) the difference between a cardiac arrest and a heart attack, please?

(I think) a heart attack (or an myocardial infarction for the fancy pants name) is when the actual heart muscle gets damaged and the blood flow goes weird or something. When I worked in A+E people used to walk through the door with heart attacks, or walk in about 2 days after the event itself.

A cardiac arrest is when the muscle or electrics just stop, basically, I think. People don't walk in with those.

In sum, ask jimbo.

[The Axman]

Strangely enough, and just to add to the utter confusion that is reigning on the subject, I suffer from a chronic illness which has an utterly appalling name, and yet is not (in most cases) as horrific as the name suggests: heart failure.
A lot of people mistake cardiomyopathy (or heart failure to you and I) with myocardial infarction (or heart attack to you and I) and it's not comparable.

[Armchair Wanderer]

Strangely enough, and just to add to the utter confusion that is reigning on the subject, I suffer from a chronic illness which has an utterly appalling name, and yet is not (in most cases) as horrific as the name suggests: heart failure.
A lot of people mistake cardiomyopathy (or heart failure to you and I) with myocardial infarction (or heart attack to you and I) and it's not comparable.

Wow! From what you're saying it sounds like you've managed to deal with it. What happens? Do you have a pacemaker?

This thread NEEDS people like you with answers not just idiots like me with questions. I'm not sure where you'd go to do a course on this kind of thing. First aid, at the very least would be a useful skill to have.

[Prufrock]

As I understand it heart attack is a blockage in the arteries. Cardiac arrest is when the heart stops beating. Heart attack is one, but not the only, cause of cardiac arrest. What Moo had wasn't a blockage in the artery. Summat else.

I *think*.

[Bruce Rioja]

Do you have a pacemaker?

What, like, a little Somalian fella?

[Montreal Wanderer]

he's not had a heart attack ^^

Can someone explain to me (as if you were explaining to a child) the difference between a cardiac arrest and a heart attack, please?

Not a1, I imagine.

(with love, a1)

Oh, I'm certain he could explain it (though I'm not sure of the comprehension at the receiving end).

[Montreal Wanderer]

he's not had a heart attack ^^

Can someone explain to me (as if you were explaining to a child) the difference between a cardiac arrest and a heart attack, please?

See http://firstaid.about.com/od/cprbasics/ ... Arrest.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[The Axman]

Strangely enough, and just to add to the utter confusion that is reigning on the subject, I suffer from a chronic illness which has an utterly appalling name, and yet is not (in most cases) as horrific as the name suggests: heart failure.
A lot of people mistake cardiomyopathy (or heart failure to you and I) with myocardial infarction (or heart attack to you and I) and it's not comparable.

Wow! From what you're saying it sounds like you've managed to deal with it. What happens? Do you have a pacemaker?

This thread NEEDS people like you with answers not just idiots like me with questions. I'm not sure where you'd go to do a course on this kind of thing. First aid, at the very least would be a useful skill to have.

Cheers for your concern (I think) but there's no need. No I don't have a pacemaker, the condition is controlled by drugs [basically Furosemide as a diuretic, an ACE inhibitor, in my case Ramipril, a Beta Blocker, which in my case is Bisoprolol, and Digitalin to control heart pace].
But this is not necessarily what Moo suffered, although it is probably related. Most heart failure is amongst the very elderly, but some is inherited, and some, like mine, is unexplained. A lot (statistically speaking) of black athletes have cardiomyopathy where the heart is enlarged, this being an inherited condition. The enlarged heart does not pump blood as efficiently as normal cardiac tissue and this in conjunction with stressful activity can lead to a heart attack either because the heart is stressed and an arrythmia arises (irregular heartbeat) or because in its inefficiency it pumps faster to make up for the leakage from the valves - the heart becomes tachycardic and fails - which is the most likely scenario with Moo.
The treatment and prognosis all depend on which cardiomyopathy he is suffering from, if it was indeed cardiomyopathy.

[jimbo]

As I understand it heart attack is a blockage in the arteries. Cardiac arrest is when the heart stops beating. Heart attack is one, but not the only, cause of cardiac arrest. What Moo had wasn't a blockage in the artery. Summat else.

I *think*.

Yeah, basically this. As Verbal mentioned, 'heart attack' is the lay term for what we'd refer to as a myocardial infarction. Problem is that doesn't mean anything to the general public, so heart attack gets banded about.

[jimbo]

Strangely enough, and just to add to the utter confusion that is reigning on the subject, I suffer from a chronic illness which has an utterly appalling name, and yet is not (in most cases) as horrific as the name suggests: heart failure.
A lot of people mistake cardiomyopathy (or heart failure to you and I) with myocardial infarction (or heart attack to you and I) and it's not comparable.

Wow! From what you're saying it sounds like you've managed to deal with it. What happens? Do you have a pacemaker?

This thread NEEDS people like you with answers not just idiots like me with questions. I'm not sure where you'd go to do a course on this kind of thing. First aid, at the very least would be a useful skill to have.

Cheers for your concern (I think) but there's no need. No I don't have a pacemaker, the condition is controlled by drugs [basically Furosemide as a diuretic, an ACE inhibitor, in my case Ramipril, a Beta Blocker, which in my case is Bisoprolol, and Digitalin to control heart pace].
But this is not necessarily what Moo suffered, although it is probably related. Most heart failure is amongst the very elderly, but some is inherited, and some, like mine, is unexplained. A lot (statistically speaking) of black athletes have cardiomyopathy where the heart is enlarged, this being an inherited condition. The enlarged heart does not pump blood as efficiently as normal cardiac tissue and this in conjunction with stressful activity can lead to a heart attack either because the heart is stressed and an arrythmia arises (irregular heartbeat) or because in its inefficiency it pumps faster to make up for the leakage from the valves - the heart becomes tachycardic and fails - which is the most likely scenario with Moo.
The treatment and prognosis all depend on which cardiomyopathy he is suffering from, if it was indeed cardiomyopathy.

Wish everyone was as clued up as you on such things! Basically the cause of most sudden deaths among fit young guys is HOCM (hypertrophic (meaning big) obstructive cardiomyopathy). It's inherited, gives you a big heart, which then manages to obstruct it's own output causing arrest, and subsequently death. The other leading cause is long QT syndrome, which is a conduction problem in the ventricles.

Heart failure is also a large heart, but due to chronic problems. Basically the heart is pushing against increased resistance for years, and gets bigger, eventually becoming a bit baggy and inefficient. Gives you problems like breathlessness and fat ankles due to fluid overload (hence the management with diuretics).

[Sponge]

Update from the doctor yesterday: a load of bollocks, it was. I got the trainee. He was nice person. He listened to nothing I told him and repeatedly tried to put words in my mouth ("And were you sweaty when these attacks occurred?"; "No"; "A little?"; "No, I don't think so"; "You don't think so?"; "I mean, it's possible but I don't think so, no"; "OK, so you were sweaty at the time".)

He checked out my vitals and told me everything looked fine. I told him about Muamba and my desire to be checked for an underlying condition. He laughed in my face. He tried to convince me that these "attacks" were due to not eating enough and that a Mars Bar would solve the issue. I told him that I don't think that's the case, that I know how it feels when one has a low blood sugar level – that this is something else. He ignored me.

I then suggested that they could be panic attacks (the symptoms fit and I suffer from anxiety). He then asked why I'm anxious. I said something along the the lines of "because being human is a lot to bear". He seemed to think I was insane. Him: "Ah, now I understand; you didn't come here because you're concerned about your heart, you came here to have someone to talk to. Am I right?" Me: "?!?" Him: "Do you have strange thoughts?" Me: "Strange thoughts?" Him: "You know, strange thoughts." Me: "You mean suicide?" Him: "Well, yes; is that why you came here, because you've been thinking of taking your own life?" Me: "?!?" Him: "It's OK, this is a private consultation, what you say here will stay in the room." This went on and got weirder (can't be arsed typing any longer) until I was so baffled and annoyed I just got up and left.

So yeah, still no idea if I'm about to have a heart attack. I will, however, de-list myself from that doctor and find another.

[thebish]

Update from the doctor yesterday: a load of bollocks, it was. I got the trainee. He was tw*t. He listened to nothing I told him and repeatedly tried to put words in my mouth ("And were you sweaty when these attacks occurred?"; "No"; "A little?"; "No, I don't think so"; "You don't think so?"; "I mean, it's possible but I don't think so, no"; "OK, so you were sweaty at the time".)

He checked out my vitals and told me everything looked fine. I told him about Muamba and my desire to be checked for an underlying condition. He laughed in my face. He tried to convince me that these "attacks" were due to not eating enough and that a Mars Bar would solve the issue. I told him that I don't think that's the case, that I know how it feels when one has a low blood sugar level – that this is something else. He ignored me.

I then suggested that they could be panic attacks (the symptoms fit and I suffer from anxiety). He then asked why I'm anxious. I said something along the the lines of "because being human is a lot to bear". He seemed to think I was insane. Him: "Ah, now I understand; you didn't come here because you're concerned about your heart, you came here to have someone to talk to. Am I right?" Me: "?!?" Him: "Do you have strange thoughts?" Me: "Strange thoughts?" Him: "You know, strange thoughts." Me: "You mean suicide?" Him: "Well, yes; is that why you came here, because you've been thinking of taking your own life?" Me: "?!?" Him: "It's OK, this is a private consultation, what you say here will stay in the room." This went on and got weirder (can't be arsed typing any longer) until I was so baffled and annoyed I just got up and left.

So yeah, still no idea if I'm about to have a heart attack. I will, however, de-list myself from that doctor and find another.

WTF!!!!!!!

you have managed to see the singularly most tosser-GP in the whole of the UK!!! gobsmacked by his response!!

[Sponge]

Update from the doctor yesterday: a load of bollocks, it was. I got the trainee. He was tw*t. He listened to nothing I told him and repeatedly tried to put words in my mouth ("And were you sweaty when these attacks occurred?"; "No"; "A little?"; "No, I don't think so"; "You don't think so?"; "I mean, it's possible but I don't think so, no"; "OK, so you were sweaty at the time".)

He checked out my vitals and told me everything looked fine. I told him about Muamba and my desire to be checked for an underlying condition. He laughed in my face. He tried to convince me that these "attacks" were due to not eating enough and that a Mars Bar would solve the issue. I told him that I don't think that's the case, that I know how it feels when one has a low blood sugar level – that this is something else. He ignored me.

I then suggested that they could be panic attacks (the symptoms fit and I suffer from anxiety). He then asked why I'm anxious. I said something along the the lines of "because being human is a lot to bear". He seemed to think I was insane. Him: "Ah, now I understand; you didn't come here because you're concerned about your heart, you came here to have someone to talk to. Am I right?" Me: "?!?" Him: "Do you have strange thoughts?" Me: "Strange thoughts?" Him: "You know, strange thoughts." Me: "You mean suicide?" Him: "Well, yes; is that why you came here, because you've been thinking of taking your own life?" Me: "?!?" Him: "It's OK, this is a private consultation, what you say here will stay in the room." This went on and got weirder (can't be arsed typing any longer) until I was so baffled and annoyed I just got up and left.

So yeah, still no idea if I'm about to have a heart attack. I will, however, de-list myself from that doctor and find another.

WTF!!!!!!!

you have managed to see the singularly most tosser-GP in the whole of the UK!!! gobsmacked by his response!!

It was in the Netherlands. And a trainee doctor. Bizarre.

[Armchair Wanderer]

If it's any consolation they texted me to cancel the morning of my appointment because a nurse had called in sick.

[jonnybwfc]

Update from the doctor yesterday: a load of bollocks, it was. I got the trainee. He was tw*t. He listened to nothing I told him and repeatedly tried to put words in my mouth ("And were you sweaty when these attacks occurred?"; "No"; "A little?"; "No, I don't think so"; "You don't think so?"; "I mean, it's possible but I don't think so, no"; "OK, so you were sweaty at the time".)

He checked out my vitals and told me everything looked fine. I told him about Muamba and my desire to be checked for an underlying condition. He laughed in my face. He tried to convince me that these "attacks" were due to not eating enough and that a Mars Bar would solve the issue. I told him that I don't think that's the case, that I know how it feels when one has a low blood sugar level – that this is something else. He ignored me.

I then suggested that they could be panic attacks (the symptoms fit and I suffer from anxiety). He then asked why I'm anxious. I said something along the the lines of "because being human is a lot to bear". He seemed to think I was insane. Him: "Ah, now I understand; you didn't come here because you're concerned about your heart, you came here to have someone to talk to. Am I right?" Me: "?!?" Him: "Do you have strange thoughts?" Me: "Strange thoughts?" Him: "You know, strange thoughts." Me: "You mean suicide?" Him: "Well, yes; is that why you came here, because you've been thinking of taking your own life?" Me: "?!?" Him: "It's OK, this is a private consultation, what you say here will stay in the room." This went on and got weirder (can't be arsed typing any longer) until I was so baffled and annoyed I just got up and left.

So yeah, still no idea if I'm about to have a heart attack. I will, however, de-list myself from that doctor and find another.

WTF!!!!!!!

you have managed to see the singularly most tosser-GP in the whole of the UK!!! gobsmacked by his response!!

It was in the Netherlands. And a trainee doctor. Bizarre.

Doctors in NL seem bizarre full-stop. Went to one, and she asked if the trainee could sit in, to which I declined.

And from then on, had a similar "are you sure you're not fine ?" experience to Mr Sponge.

Hadn't been to a doctor 10 years before then, and haven't been to once since. That was 5 years ago.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Update from the doctor yesterday: a load of bollocks, it was. I got the trainee. He was tw*t. He listened to nothing I told him and repeatedly tried to put words in my mouth ("And were you sweaty when these attacks occurred?"; "No"; "A little?"; "No, I don't think so"; "You don't think so?"; "I mean, it's possible but I don't think so, no"; "OK, so you were sweaty at the time".)

He checked out my vitals and told me everything looked fine. I told him about Muamba and my desire to be checked for an underlying condition. He laughed in my face. He tried to convince me that these "attacks" were due to not eating enough and that a Mars Bar would solve the issue. I told him that I don't think that's the case, that I know how it feels when one has a low blood sugar level – that this is something else. He ignored me.

I then suggested that they could be panic attacks (the symptoms fit and I suffer from anxiety). He then asked why I'm anxious. I said something along the the lines of "because being human is a lot to bear". He seemed to think I was insane. Him: "Ah, now I understand; you didn't come here because you're concerned about your heart, you came here to have someone to talk to. Am I right?" Me: "?!?" Him: "Do you have strange thoughts?" Me: "Strange thoughts?" Him: "You know, strange thoughts." Me: "You mean suicide?" Him: "Well, yes; is that why you came here, because you've been thinking of taking your own life?" Me: "?!?" Him: "It's OK, this is a private consultation, what you say here will stay in the room." This went on and got weirder (can't be arsed typing any longer) until I was so baffled and annoyed I just got up and left.

So yeah, still no idea if I'm about to have a heart attack. I will, however, de-list myself from that doctor and find another.

WTF!!!!!!!

you have managed to see the singularly most tosser-GP in the whole of the UK!!! gobsmacked by his response!!

It was in the Netherlands. And a trainee doctor. Bizarre.

If this wasn't serious, it would make a great comedy sketch. 'Do you have strange thoughts' had me chuckling - and I wouldn't have guessed suicide as the answer. Indeed, get another doctor quick.

[Sponge]

Doctors in NL seem bizarre full-stop. Went to one, and she asked if the trainee could sit in, to which I declined.

And from then on, had a similar "are you sure you're not fine ?" experience to Mr Sponge.

Hadn't been to a doctor 10 years before then, and haven't been to once since. That was 5 years ago.

They're really weird. GPs are called "house doctors" – which often means their practice is literally in their house (in this case with a dog sleeping in the corner of the "waiting room"?!). And when I call I don't reach a receptionist or secretary but the doctor himself, who answers with a why-the-feck-are-you-phoning-me "hello?". Feels proper shady, but apparently none of this is particularly uncommon here.

If this wasn't serious, it would make a great comedy sketch. 'Do you have strange thoughts' had me chuckling - and I wouldn't have guessed suicide as the answer. Indeed, get another doctor quick.

Yeah, there was some more back and forth before I understood what he was getting at.

[Worthy4England]

Update from the doctor yesterday: a load of bollocks, it was. I got the trainee. He was tw*t. He listened to nothing I told him and repeatedly tried to put words in my mouth ("And were you sweaty when these attacks occurred?"; "No"; "A little?"; "No, I don't think so"; "You don't think so?"; "I mean, it's possible but I don't think so, no"; "OK, so you were sweaty at the time".)

He checked out my vitals and told me everything looked fine. I told him about Muamba and my desire to be checked for an underlying condition. He laughed in my face. He tried to convince me that these "attacks" were due to not eating enough and that a Mars Bar would solve the issue. I told him that I don't think that's the case, that I know how it feels when one has a low blood sugar level – that this is something else. He ignored me.

I then suggested that they could be panic attacks (the symptoms fit and I suffer from anxiety). He then asked why I'm anxious. I said something along the the lines of "because being human is a lot to bear". He seemed to think I was insane. Him: "Ah, now I understand; you didn't come here because you're concerned about your heart, you came here to have someone to talk to. Am I right?" Me: "?!?" Him: "Do you have strange thoughts?" Me: "Strange thoughts?" Him: "You know, strange thoughts." Me: "You mean suicide?" Him: "Well, yes; is that why you came here, because you've been thinking of taking your own life?" Me: "?!?" Him: "It's OK, this is a private consultation, what you say here will stay in the room." This went on and got weirder (can't be arsed typing any longer) until I was so baffled and annoyed I just got up and left.

So yeah, still no idea if I'm about to have a heart attack. I will, however, de-list myself from that doctor and find another.

WTF!!!!!!!

you have managed to see the singularly most tosser-GP in the whole of the UK!!! gobsmacked by his response!!

It was in the Netherlands. And a trainee doctor. Bizarre.

Ahhh - that should be easy to sort out then. I was in Netherlands once (about a lifetime ago though) and went into a pharmacy to try and get some tablets for heartburn...

About 5 mins later an ambulance turned up.

So just tell 'em you have heartburn, and they'll soon have you thoroughly checked over.