wba at home

[norm the jedi]

Agreed, and if they're not good enough, we'll go down. But it doesnt take a bucketload of talent to follow orders and keep discipline, unless the orders themselves are not good enough to start with.

So were the orders good enough when we went 2 - 0 up... ?

[ohjimmyjimmy]

What, like, Martin you cross that ball in behind Kevin Davies and onto the defender's foot, for him to ricochet it off his team mates chest? We can coach that but not how to defend the far post?

A game lasts 90 minutes, surprisingly the opposition wont always throw the towel in when they're losing, and may even try to score themselves.

[BWFC_Insane]

Agreed, and if they're not good enough, we'll go down. But it doesnt take a bucketload of talent to follow orders and keep discipline, unless the orders themselves are not good enough to start with.

So were the orders good enough when we went 2 - 0 up... ?

They'd been going through our midfield all game....

It only worsened when Kevin Davies was moved from up front to be a secondary left back and we decided to surrender the whole pitch to them.

People went on at Megson for "giving Hull too much room" to play in and sitting back too far.

Can you imagine what they'd have done if Davies became our 6th defender along with LCY for the last 15 minutes? I can't remember the last time we were a) as negative as we were in the last 15 minutes on Sunday and b) as cluelessly shambolic as we were allied to that negativity......

[norm the jedi]

Agreed, and if they're not good enough, we'll go down. But it doesnt take a bucketload of talent to follow orders and keep discipline, unless the orders themselves are not good enough to start with.

So were the orders good enough when we went 2 - 0 up... ?

They'd been going through our midfield all game....

It only worsened when Kevin Davies was moved from up front to be a secondary left back and we decided to surrender the whole pitch to them.

People went on at Megson for "giving Hull too much room" to play in and sitting back too far.

Can you imagine what they'd have done if Davies became our 6th defender along with LCY for the last 15 minutes? I can't remember the last time we were a) as negative as we were in the last 15 minutes on Sunday and b) as cluelessly shambolic as we were allied to that negativity......

Everyone has gone through our midfield since Muamba went down, too be fair they weren't exactly unfettered when he was fit.. He introduced Vela against Spurs and he bombed about got booked looked to have potential and we conceded again with him on..
As it happens our record on protecting a winning position compares well with the rest of the league
[lies damn lies etc] Tired players, under pressure, panic and make individual errors.. if three of them chose the same moment ? Sunday comes down to a lack of leadership on the field not in the dug out..[imv]

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Agreed, and if they're not good enough, we'll go down. But it doesnt take a bucketload of talent to follow orders and keep discipline, unless the orders themselves are not good enough to start with.

So were the orders good enough when we went 2 - 0 up... ?

They'd been going through our midfield all game....

It only worsened when Kevin Davies was moved from up front to be a secondary left back and we decided to surrender the whole pitch to them.

People went on at Megson for "giving Hull too much room" to play in and sitting back too far.

Can you imagine what they'd have done if Davies became our 6th defender along with LCY for the last 15 minutes? I can't remember the last time we were a) as negative as we were in the last 15 minutes on Sunday and b) as cluelessly shambolic as we were allied to that negativity......

Everyone has gone through our midfield since Muamba went down, too be fair they weren't exactly unfettered when he was fit.. He introduced Vela against Spurs and he bombed about got booked looked to have potential and we conceded again with him on..
As it happens our record on protecting a winning position compares well with the rest of the league
[lies damn lies etc] Tired players, under pressure, panic and make individual errors.. if three of them chose the same moment ? Sunday comes down to a lack of leadership on the field not in the dug out..[imv]

If THREE of them choose the same moment, then suddenly you're not talking about individual errors and more of collective ones by the defensive unit, no?

[BWFC_Insane]

Agreed, and if they're not good enough, we'll go down. But it doesnt take a bucketload of talent to follow orders and keep discipline, unless the orders themselves are not good enough to start with.

So were the orders good enough when we went 2 - 0 up... ?

They'd been going through our midfield all game....

It only worsened when Kevin Davies was moved from up front to be a secondary left back and we decided to surrender the whole pitch to them.

People went on at Megson for "giving Hull too much room" to play in and sitting back too far.

Can you imagine what they'd have done if Davies became our 6th defender along with LCY for the last 15 minutes? I can't remember the last time we were a) as negative as we were in the last 15 minutes on Sunday and b) as cluelessly shambolic as we were allied to that negativity......

Everyone has gone through our midfield since Muamba went down, too be fair they weren't exactly unfettered when he was fit.. He introduced Vela against Spurs and he bombed about got booked looked to have potential and we conceded again with him on..
As it happens our record on protecting a winning position compares well with the rest of the league
[lies damn lies etc] Tired players, under pressure, panic and make individual errors.. if three of them chose the same moment ? Sunday comes down to a lack of leadership on the field not in the dug out..[imv]

Aye look he had limited options. Even if he'd shoved Alonso on to hold the left flank, at least it would have acknowledged we were going to have to dig in and scrap.

Putting LCY on in that situation was a bit ludicrous though, UNLESS we were going to use him as an outlet. Putting him on to sit on Boyata's shoulder was always a recipe for disaster.

Of course the players on the field should have done better but the change was ill judged, at best.

And I didn't see much leadership from the sides when we desperately needed it. Especially when our best leader on the field (NRC) was treading water for the majority of the second half. Harsh to ask him to think logically at that point.....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'm honestly interested to know, iif the players had stopped listening to Coyle at this point, what was going on? Blind panic?

Yes. That's what happens in lieu of leadership and organisation.

Surely a responsibility of the senior pros on the pitch at the time?
Or is Coyle to be held responsible for every mental error the well paid professionals make under pressure.
Ultimate responsibility at the end of the day but if the plan is succeeding [you're ahead as time ebbs away]
and then bizarre behaviour costs a goal surely that's the players?

Coyle said, on telly, that he was urging them to get forward rather than sit deep.

That may or may not be the right idea, but regardless, they were ignoring him.

And that doesn't reflect well on anyone – manager, coaches, senior players, junior players.

[boltonboris]

Davo said the players were tired and nervous. They "naturally" sat back and tried to soak it up, despite being told to do otherwise.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Couple of stats from the day job.

West Brom got 10 shots on target, more than they've managed in any league game apart from the 14 against Wolves in February. Look what happened to their manager... and season.

Martin Petrov made five successful crosses; the only player to manage more in the league this season is Matt Jarvis, who has twice completed six. Petrov might have managed that if he hadn't been hoiked off.

[BWFC_Insane]

Couple of stats from the day job.

West Brom got 10 shots on target, more than they've managed in any league game apart from the 14 against Wolves in February. Look what happened to their manager... and season.

Martin Petrov made five successful crosses; the only player to manage more in the league this season is Matt Jarvis, who has twice completed six. Petrov might have managed that if he hadn't been hoiked off.

For balance he was injured......

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

So was Reo-Coker

[norm the jedi]

Aye look he had limited options. Even if he'd shoved Alonso on to hold the left flank, at least it would have acknowledged we were going to have to dig in and scrap.

Putting LCY on in that situation was a bit ludicrous though, UNLESS we were going to use him as an outlet. Putting him on to sit on Boyata's shoulder was always a recipe for disaster.

Of course the players on the field should have done better but the change was ill judged, at best.

And I didn't see much leadership from the sides when we desperately needed it. Especially when our best leader on the field (NRC) was treading water for the majority of the second half. Harsh to ask him to think logically at that point.....

TBH - deck chairs titanic..
put Alonso on ? from the little of seen on here re the relative merits of Mr Alonso vis a vis a set of garden furniture introducing him would likely have prompted a lynching!
if he was wanting us forward and put CYL on to enforce that plan and none of the 11 fancied it ?
I just think we've reached the point where he can't do right for doing wrong whatever he does he shpuld have done summat else in a lot of folks hindsight powered eyes.. at which point all he can do is get on with it and take the flack he'll get whatever happens..

jumping up and down on the sidelines is about the least effective management strategy available especially if there's plainly nobody taking any notice..

[Prufrock]

Seriously? Sticking on a bloke who hasn't played for nine months to hold onto a lead and he'd have been crticised 'no matter what'?!

This idea that if he had brought on Vela to sure it up in the middle a)we would still have conceeded, and b)he'd have got stick for it is bollocks. Right decision. Doesn't mean we defo would have held on, but doesn't make it not right!

[boltonboris]

Exactly. Just some foresight and actually making the right decision, regardless of the outcome, would be a start.

[norm the jedi]

Seriously? Sticking on a bloke who hasn't played for nine months to hold onto a lead and he'd have been crticised 'no matter what'?!

This idea that if he had brought on Vela to sure it up in the middle a)we would still have conceeded, and b)he'd have got stick for it is bollocks. Right decision. Doesn't mean we defo would have held on, but doesn't make it not right!

If we'd stuck Vela or Alonso on and conceded? Despite the fact that two days and the benefit of hindsight later received wisdom states that would have worked?
He'd have been slaughtered as well. Or would everyone have gone "aye well it was the right move?"

[Bruce Rioja]

Hang on - the purpose of having a guy on the bench is so that he can be brought on at any point! If a guy isn't up to partaking in a game, why's he there?

[boltonboris]

Sentiment....

Provide a lift...

I'm not saying either of these are right. I'm just trying to reason.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

All adds to the impression really that Coyle might just be a lil bit too soft for this game at times.

[BWFC_Insane]

Hang on - the purpose of having a guy on the bench is so that he can be brought on at any point! If a guy isn't up to partaking in a game, why's he there?

I suspected he was there for the "its 0-0 or 1-1 with 15 minutes left and we need a winner and look flat" scenario.

Not the "we're 2-1 up and need to cling on" one.....

[ohjimmyjimmy]

To provide chances for the too-knackered-to-even-move from-their-own-box strikers...?