poll where are the people who think OC is any good

[BWFC_Insane]

In a league that was a damn sight less competitive under Megson (who also had a budget that quadruples Coyle's)

I'm sure people become blind to this fact when drawing comparisons. I think we'd've been long gone under Megson by now.

See now thats an opinion.

I disagree cos under Megson we'd have a much physically tougher side capable of grinding out the results, we've failed to do this season.

Thats exactly why we're in the mess. Because we've been obsessed with playing 2 wingers and 2 strikers for most of the season and haven't been good enough to carry that off.

Megson would have played a more physical game and we'd have ground out results.

[BWFC_Insane]

Both managers endured difficult circumstances of one kind or another. I don't think its fair to make excuses for one but not the other.

The bottom line being that taking the average over an extended period Coyle has not managed to improve the performances or results from those of his predecessor.

I think you've got to look at what circumstances were of their own creation. Coyle you could argue the tactics and persistence of injuries (not the initial injuries themselves) tactics, while Megson you could argue that he turned the fans and a section of the players against him.

Well being fair the fans were protesting before he'd even taken charge. So whilst he didn't help himself.....

I feel our plight this season is far far more self inflicted than owt that happened before, for the reasons outlined in my post above!

[Mar]

In a league that was a damn sight less competitive under Megson (who also had a budget that quadruples Coyle's)

I'm sure people become blind to this fact when drawing comparisons. I think we'd've been long gone under Megson by now.

See now thats an opinion.

I disagree cos under Megson we'd have a much physically tougher side capable of grinding out the results, we've failed to do this season.

Thats exactly why we're in the mess. Because we've been obsessed with playing 2 wingers and 2 strikers for most of the season and haven't been good enough to carry that off.

Megson would have played a more physical game and we'd have ground out results.

Agreed that we'd be playing a more physical side grinding out results but I also believe that we're not the best at holding onto results under Megson and as a result would've seen a lot of those games end in draws.

If Megson had the squad that OC does now we'd be gone. We don't have the players to play that overly physical game, maybe Pratley, Reo-Coker, Muamba, Kevin Davies and a few of the defenders but thats about it.

[boltonboris]

In a league that was a damn sight less competitive under Megson (who also had a budget that quadruples Coyle's)

I'm sure people become blind to this fact when drawing comparisons. I think we'd've been long gone under Megson by now.

See now thats an opinion.

I disagree cos under Megson we'd have a much physically tougher side capable of grinding out the results, we've failed to do this season.

Thats exactly why we're in the mess. Because we've been obsessed with playing 2 wingers and 2 strikers for most of the season and haven't been good enough to carry that off.

Megson would have played a more physical game and we'd have ground out results.

I don't think we'd be any better or worse off to be honest. We were heading for certain relegation when he was fired, that's seemingly the case now.

Only difference is the 'styles' in which it has been done. The players Megson signed on decent contracts have mostly moved on, but we've not really had the cash to replace them adequately.

The market has also changed. Under Megson, we could sign players who'd happily come to us. Now those players will go to the likes of Stoke, QPR, Villa, Fulham for a lot more money than we could offer.

[Whookam]

In answer to the question 'Do I think Coyle is any good?' I think the verdict is inconclusive with his time at Wanderers, He has a win percentage of 34% with a further 18% drawn. To put that into context Megson had 27% win, Allardyce 41%. So he is right in the middle of both of them and I think with a little more luck and patience next year he will be nearer Allardyce than Megson!

There's lies, damn lies...

Wikipedia win percentages include cup games. When you subtract the number of cup games and wins under Coyle (18 and 11 respectively) his win percentage drops to 28.5%. This has been decreasing for the last 14 months. Doing the same thing with Megson gives 83 league games played, 24 wins and a win percentage of 28.9%.

So allowing for half a team in A and E and spectacular ineptitude in every facet of his management Coyle comes out .4% worse after contextulising the stats against him ? I'm sold..

Personally I think win percentage means bugger all. However context is everything however and so cup games must be removed in order to give the fairest possible comparison.

[Mar]

Well being fair the fans were protesting before he'd even taken charge. So whilst he didn't help himself.....

True, but that was a challenge to be overcome that he never really tried to take on. He had plenty of time in charge to turn that around.

[Hoboh]

The bottom line is we are in the bottom three because the manager does not know his head from his bottom!
And sh*t comes from the bottom.

Only one fact counts here, one game for the clueless bastard to save our Prem status, then he should fook off!

[BWFC_Insane]

In a league that was a damn sight less competitive under Megson (who also had a budget that quadruples Coyle's)

I'm sure people become blind to this fact when drawing comparisons. I think we'd've been long gone under Megson by now.

See now thats an opinion.

I disagree cos under Megson we'd have a much physically tougher side capable of grinding out the results, we've failed to do this season.

Thats exactly why we're in the mess. Because we've been obsessed with playing 2 wingers and 2 strikers for most of the season and haven't been good enough to carry that off.

Megson would have played a more physical game and we'd have ground out results.

I don't think we'd be any better or worse off to be honest. We were heading for certain relegation when he was fired, that's seemingly the case now.

Only difference is the 'styles' in which it has been done. The players Megson signed on decent contracts have mostly moved on, but we've not really had the cash to replace them adequately.

The market has also changed. Under Megson, we could sign players who'd happily come to us. Now those players will go to the likes of Stoke, QPR, Villa, Fulham for a lot more money than we could offer.

Not having that, 18 points from 18 games and that ratio would have comfortably kept us up come season end.

[boltonboris]

Our form was dipping then, so there's no way you can assume he'd keep up his average ppg.

In fact, I'd argue at that time, it'd come well short of that.

[Mar]

Our form was dipping then, so there's no way you can assume he'd keep up his average ppg.

In fact, I'd argue at that time, it'd come well short of that.

There's no way you can assume he wouldn't have turned it around. I'd argue he would've come up short sooner or later so a change was needed. No point in deliberately hanging around the drop zone with the mentality of 'survival is the best we can ask for'.

[Hoboh]

Our form was dipping then, so there's no way you can assume he'd keep up his average ppg.

In fact, I'd argue at that time, it'd come well short of that.

There's no way you can assume he wouldn't have turned it around. I'd argue he would've come up short sooner or later so a change was needed. No point in deliberately hanging around the drop zone with the mentality of 'survival is the best we can ask for'.

So by that criteria what the hell is Coyle still doing here? and why do people still think he is a great manager putting out a side that produces 'great football'?

[Sponge]

Our form was dipping then, so there's no way you can assume he'd keep up his average ppg.

In fact, I'd argue at that time, it'd come well short of that.

There's no way you can assume he wouldn't have turned it around. I'd argue he would've come up short sooner or later so a change was needed. No point in deliberately hanging around the drop zone with the mentality of 'survival is the best we can ask for'.

So by that criteria what the hell is Coyle still doing here? and why do people still think he is a great manager putting out a side that produces 'great football'?

Who thinks that?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

under Megson we'd have a much physically tougher side capable of grinding out the results, we've failed to do this season.

Can't compare players, as Megson wouldn't have signed the same men.

What I would posit is that Megson would be more likely to "not lose" games than to try to win them. So we might not have idiotically thrown away two points at Norwich (or at least not by being overly attacking), but equally I doubt we'd have gone for the balls in games at Loftus, Ewood, etc.

Our record against the five lowest teams (who aren't us!) is W8 D1 L1. Include Stoke (sixth lowest bar us) and it's W9 D1 L1. If this weekend Coyle keeps that up, he keeps us up. It won't make him a genius, and he'll still have a lot to learn, but it'll do for now.

If we win, we get 38 points - 1ppg. If we don't win, we don't get 38pts. If we don't get 38pts, we don't deserve to stay up.

[Lord Kangana]

In a league that was a damn sight less competitive under Megson (who also had a budget that quadruples Coyle's)

I'm sure people become blind to this fact when drawing comparisons. I think we'd've been long gone under Megson by now.

See now thats an opinion.

I disagree cos under Megson we'd have a much physically tougher side capable of grinding out the results, we've failed to do this season.

Thats exactly why we're in the mess. Because we've been obsessed with playing 2 wingers and 2 strikers for most of the season and haven't been good enough to carry that off.

Megson would have played a more physical game and we'd have ground out results.

We're in this mess for many reasons, but one of them being that Megson's last year in charge saw a £16.4m deficit spend, whilst Coyle's first saw that reduced to just £3.9m.

The goalposts have been shifted.

His tactics are no shitter than "4 fullbacks and 6 defensive midfielders" of the the previous regime. Considering it cost so much more to put that shite together.

That and our team bus seems to have run over the local gypsey's black cat, who was carrying 13 mirrors at the time.

[thebish]

In a league that was a damn sight less competitive under Megson (who also had a budget that quadruples Coyle's)

I'm sure people become blind to this fact when drawing comparisons. I think we'd've been long gone under Megson by now.

See now thats an opinion.

I disagree cos under Megson we'd have a much physically tougher side capable of grinding out the results, we've failed to do this season.

whereas the italics is FACT?

[BWFC_Insane]

In a league that was a damn sight less competitive under Megson (who also had a budget that quadruples Coyle's)

I'm sure people become blind to this fact when drawing comparisons. I think we'd've been long gone under Megson by now.

See now thats an opinion.

I disagree cos under Megson we'd have a much physically tougher side capable of grinding out the results, we've failed to do this season.

Thats exactly why we're in the mess. Because we've been obsessed with playing 2 wingers and 2 strikers for most of the season and haven't been good enough to carry that off.

Megson would have played a more physical game and we'd have ground out results.

We're in this mess for many reasons, but one of them being that Megson's last year in charge saw a £16.4m deficit spend, whilst Coyle's first saw that reduced to just £3.9m.

The goalposts have been shifted.

His tactics are no shitter than "4 fullbacks and 6 defensive midfielders" of the the previous regime. Considering it cost so much more to put that shite together.

That and our team bus seems to have run over the local gypsey's black cat, who was carrying 13 mirrors at the time.

Come on, mostly he just played 2 defensive midfield players. And to be frank, I think we'd have had more joy this season playing that way....but we're always going to disagree on that....so....

One thing that both Megson and Coyle have failed to do is adequately replace either directly or through a changing emphasis Kevin Davies. I think Megson in his time was able to rely on Davies to pull us out, when it really mattered, we played off him and he responded.

Coyle did the same when he first came in.

But he's been in decline. And we've not found a way of being effective really without him. I was very hopeful that Coyle would be the man to do that with his footballing style, but it seems not.....

[boltonboris]

Maybe Davies is better and more effective than people (we) give him credit for?

[BWFC_Insane]

Maybe Davies is better and more effective than people (we) give him credit for?

I think thats my point. He was absolutely critical to us.

But you can't doubt he's been in decline.

Last season as much as Holden's injury was crucial......look at Davies, fantastic till the Brum cup tie, then seems to have run out of puff.....I suspect that was as critical.

As a club we've known he was getting older, and not managed to find anyway to really cope without him!

[boltonboris]

He has.. But my point is that he is/was obviously better than people gave him ctredit for. Not only could we not do without him in a direct game, but we seemingly can't do without him in a shorter passing game.

I've probably digressed from your original comment, but I know what I'm getting at, if nobody else does.

[Sponge]

In a league that was a damn sight less competitive under Megson (who also had a budget that quadruples Coyle's)

I'm sure people become blind to this fact when drawing comparisons. I think we'd've been long gone under Megson by now.

See now thats an opinion.

I disagree cos under Megson we'd have a much physically tougher side capable of grinding out the results, we've failed to do this season.

whereas the italics is FACT?