The Politics Thread

[thebish]

also...

has this coalition govt now run out of stuff to do (agree on?) in THIS parliament - the one they are in power for? If not - then why is Cameron bleating on about what he MIGHT do IF he happens to win the NEXT election outright?? And why is Gove doing the same - bleating on about scrapping GCSEs and bringing back (something like) O-levels and CSEs - but without ANY detail or (indeed) plan of any description?

[Harry Genshaw]

also...

has this coalition govt now run out of stuff to do (agree on?) in THIS parliament - the one they are in power for? If not - then why is Cameron bleating on about what he MIGHT do IF he happens to win the NEXT election outright?? And why is Gove doing the same - bleating on about scrapping GCSEs and bringing back (something like) O-levels and CSEs - but without ANY detail or (indeed) plan of any description?

Pure spin. It will resonate with the voters, please the right wing in the party and best of all - they get some of the kudos but dont have to do any of it. Brilliant!

In the interest of balance - the previous Govts obsession with PFI may be coming back to haunt them this week..

[William the White]

also...

has this coalition govt now run out of stuff to do (agree on?) in THIS parliament - the one they are in power for? If not - then why is Cameron bleating on about what he MIGHT do IF he happens to win the NEXT election outright?? And why is Gove doing the same - bleating on about scrapping GCSEs and bringing back (something like) O-levels and CSEs - but without ANY detail or (indeed) plan of any description?

Pure spin. It will resonate with the voters, please the right wing in the party and best of all - they get some of the kudos but dont have to do any of it. Brilliant!

In the interest of balance - the previous Govts obsession with PFI may be coming back to haunt them this week..

Yes - and it's not exactly that they weren't told... Blair a great politician, an absolutely lousy pm, and the man who destroyed the heart of the Labour Party...

[Hoboh]

Nat West? Just a little rehearsal for shutting down the banks when the Euro collapses. Keep cash by you and buy gold and silver if you have any spare. Some extra food in the house won't be a bad idea either. Canned goods will last a long time and you can rotate your supply to keep it fresh. Goods to barter could be very useful- shampoo, baby supplies, any essential items that don't have use by dates.

When the crisis hits it'll be hard and fast and most people won't see it coming. Be warned and be prepared.

[a1]

Nat West? Just a little rehearsal for shutting down the banks when the Euro collapses. Keep cash by you and buy gold and silver if you have any spare. Some extra food in the house won't be a bad idea either. Canned goods will last a long time and you can rotate your supply to keep it fresh. Goods to barter could be very useful- shampoo, baby supplies, any essential items that don't have use by dates.

you're crazy.

theres twilight zones/ray bradburys on these themes. heres one-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rip_Van_Winkle_Caper" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the aluminium was once worth the same as gold fact at the bottom made the 21st century me laugh.

:/

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Immigration is an economic, not a political, debate.

I'm not sure I understand the distinction and perhaps less the point of making it. Lots of political debates are mostly economic in substance and lots of economic debates have a significant 'political' element.

One point on immigrant workers that I think is under-discussed...

It's interesting to me how 'out of fashion' our own 'working class' has become. In London, every single Pret a Manger, Eat, or whatever is staffed entirely by foreigners. It's almost impossible to imagine these places being entirely staffed by British people with regional accents because it cuts across the 'cosmopolitan' branding we all now expect.

[thebish]

It's interesting to me how 'out of fashion' our own 'working class' has become. In London, every single Pret a Manger, Eat, or whatever is staffed entirely by foreigners. It's almost impossible to imagine these places being entirely staffed by British people with regional accents because it cuts across the 'cosmopolitan' branding we all now expect.

IO think that might be less the case outside of London... though - probably still a noticeable trend...

(not that I've ever been in a Pret-a-Manger - I'm more of a Greggs man!)

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

It's interesting to me how 'out of fashion' our own 'working class' has become. In London, every single Pret a Manger, Eat, or whatever is staffed entirely by foreigners. It's almost impossible to imagine these places being entirely staffed by British people with regional accents because it cuts across the 'cosmopolitan' branding we all now expect.

IO think that might be less the case outside of London... though - probably still a noticeable trend...

(not that I've ever been in a Pret-a-Manger - I'm more of a Greggs man!)

Yes, I suspect this is more pronounced in London. At least down here, it does seem that a little bit of exoticism is fetishised, at least in certain service industries, to the almost total exclusion of native speakers of English.

[Hoboh]

It's interesting to me how 'out of fashion' our own 'working class' has become. In London, every single Pret a Manger, Eat, or whatever is staffed entirely by foreigners. It's almost impossible to imagine these places being entirely staffed by British people with regional accents because it cuts across the 'cosmopolitan' branding we all now expect.

IO think that might be less the case outside of London... though - probably still a noticeable trend...

(not that I've ever been in a Pret-a-Manger - I'm more of a Greggs man!)

Yes, I suspect this is more pronounced in London. At least down here, it does seem that a little bit of exoticism is fetishised, at least in certain service industries, to the almost total exclusion of native speakers of English.

Does not explain the reason for immigrant forklift truck drivers, pickers, machine operators, plumbers, builders etc though does it? Pret a glorified overpriced sarnie shop is hardly a good example

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

It's interesting to me how 'out of fashion' our own 'working class' has become. In London, every single Pret a Manger, Eat, or whatever is staffed entirely by foreigners. It's almost impossible to imagine these places being entirely staffed by British people with regional accents because it cuts across the 'cosmopolitan' branding we all now expect.

IO think that might be less the case outside of London... though - probably still a noticeable trend...

(not that I've ever been in a Pret-a-Manger - I'm more of a Greggs man!)

Yes, I suspect this is more pronounced in London. At least down here, it does seem that a little bit of exoticism is fetishised, at least in certain service industries, to the almost total exclusion of native speakers of English.

Does not explain the reason for immigrant forklift truck drivers, pickers, machine operators, plumbers, builders etc though does it? Pret a glorified overpriced sarnie shop is hardly a good example

It's a good example of the trend I wanted to raise in relation to certain service industries, as I specified quite clearly.

Although, there is of course a wider point about the current image problem of the British working class... the stereotype firmly entrenched now is that any foreigner = better work ethic & better general attitude.

[Harry Genshaw]

Although, there is of course a wider point about the current image problem of the British working class... the stereotype firmly entrenched now is that any foreigner = better work ethic & better general attitude.

Sad but true. On the flip side I've seen folk try to level that accusation on a building site. Comparing the work ethic of 6 Lithuanians who were all dossing in a 2 bed flat and sending their money home, to an English guy with a young family. The site foreman was having a pop at him because he wouldn't work all weekend like his Eastern European counterparts. Hardly comparing like with like there.

[Lord Kangana]

In my experience, many businesses don't give a shit about a work ethic. Its pure economics. They see foreign workers as being cheaper for the same job, not better for the same money.... which is why I was painting it as an economic, not the "its all the fault of the Tofu-knitting-Guardianistas that we're in this mess" political approach. My entire industry is now largely underpinned by 10-to-a-room Indian/Bangladeshi etc workers working through incredibly nefarious employment agencies and/or "schools". I note that the present government has taken steps to tackle the latter problem, so kudos for having a finger on the pulse, but I do get the impression that most people (and by extension most politicians) haven't the faintest idea how deep and entrenched the problem goes.

However, I both take on board, and (pass the laudanum dear, I feel faint) wholeheartedly agree with last comment about the working class. I've been asked more than once by business owners to dispense with the services of young scallies I have in my employ from the local environs, because of the image they present, not for the quality of their work.

[a1]

In my experience, many businesses don't give a shit about a work ethic. Its pure economics. They see foreign workers as being cheaper for the same job, not better for the same money.... which is why I was painting it as an economic, not the "its all the fault of the Tofu-knitting-Guardianistas that we're in this mess" political approach. My entire industry is now largely underpinned by 10-to-a-room Indian/Bangladeshi etc workers working through incredibly nefarious employment agencies and/or "schools". I note that the present government has taken steps to tackle the latter problem, so kudos for having a finger on the pulse, but I do get the impression that most people (and by extension most politicians) haven't the faintest idea how deep and entrenched the problem goes.

However, I both take on board, and (pass the laudanum dear, I feel faint) wholeheartedly agree with last comment about the working class. I've been asked more than once by business owners to dispense with the services of young scallies I have in my employ from the local environs, because of the image they present, not for the quality of their work.

do "dodgy foreigners" not create the same uncanny valley 'revulsion' ?

seems like it should do.

[Hoboh]

In my experience, many businesses don't give a shit about a work ethic. Its pure economics. They see foreign workers as being cheaper for the same job, not better for the same money.... which is why I was painting it as an economic, not the "its all the fault of the Tofu-knitting-Guardianistas that we're in this mess" political approach. My entire industry is now largely underpinned by 10-to-a-room Indian/Bangladeshi etc workers working through incredibly nefarious employment agencies and/or "schools". I note that the present government has taken steps to tackle the latter problem, so kudos for having a finger on the pulse, but I do get the impression that most people (and by extension most politicians) haven't the faintest idea how deep and entrenched the problem goes.

However, I both take on board, and (pass the laudanum dear, I feel faint) wholeheartedly agree with last comment about the working class. I've been asked more than once by business owners to dispense with the services of young scallies I have in my employ from the local environs, because of the image they present, not for the quality of their work.

do "dodgy foreigners" not create the same uncanny valley 'revulsion' ?

seems like it should do.

Oh it will do except if you don't like dealing with 'dodgy foreigners' you are automatically the R word, the image our lords and masters promote to keep the cheap and suspectly qualified labour

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

As I say, it seems to me that the 'revulsion' is the other way round.

[Hoboh]

As I say, it seems to me that the 'revulsion' is the other way round.

I'd roll around laughing too if I earning 3 times what I could expect to in my own country

[Prufrock]

I watched last week's 8 out of 10 Cats earlier. I'm not sure whether I felt let down. Parts of it were brilliant, but the whole thing felt a little contrived. Jimmy Carr earnestly apologising. Now, clearly, his PR people have told him he has to come out and seem humble, but it just seemed a little too cringe-worthy to me. There was the odd flash where the panellists had a go, but political tirades from Louis Spence don't really hit the mark. They seem to actually get on with Carr, which meant we didn't quite get the fireworks seen in the Angus Deayton HIGNFY.

It felt like at the same time the other panellists let him off a bit, but at the same time he was overly sober. It all felt a little bit too 'serious' for what was essentially the tax affairs of a comedian. On a comedy show. Perhaps I'm a little harsh, it was still funny, just not as funny as I'd have hoped.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I thought it was terrific TV.

His PR team have played a blinder as, for me, he has struck exactly the right tone.

The latest thing to do the rounds is a comparison of Cameron's comments when asked about Philp Green - "I'm not going to comment on individual's tax affairs" - to his comments on Carr. I'm afraid he was right first time and commenting on Carr makes him look inconsistent and ridiculous.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

By the way Pru - having time to watch 4oD repeats on a weekday morning makes you a bastard...

[Prufrock]

I thought it was terrific TV.

His PR team have played a blinder as, for me, he has struck exactly the right tone.

The latest thing to do the rounds is a comparison of Cameron's comments when asked about Philip Green - "I'm not going to comment on individual's tax affairs" - to his comments on Carr. I'm afraid he was right first time and commenting on Carr makes him look inconsistent and ridiculous.

It was still good, I was just hoping for more fireworks! You are right, he has played it correctly, but it would have been much better television if he had got it wrong .

As for Cameron, his PR team have played the opposite of a blinder. Why on earth anyone thought it was a good idea for him to get involved is beyond me. From the obvious Philip Green/ Lord Ashcroft angle it opened up, through to the idea which also seems to have resonated with a lot of people of why on earth the Prime Minister is commenting on the tax affairs of a comedian. I don't see a political upside beyond a very weak attempt to appeal to the backbenchers by attacking a 'lefty comedian'. Madness.