Time to go

[thebish]

As we went down last season, it would have been no gamble at all. Wouldn't have lost owt.

errr... that's some screwy thinking there!! at the time you are talking about - our relegation was not a certainty - so yes - it was a gamble.

it was a gamble either way - that's life...

[thebish]

You can't be 100% sure with any candidate. But you have to make the judgement. As it is the poor performances on the pitch, the infighting amongst fans and miserable feeling in general that seems to be around about the club, something needs to change.

If Coyle can do that, and as he said at the forum 'prove people wrong and change opinions' then great. But if not then a change can't make things much worse...

change can make things worse - or better - or stay the same...

[BWFC_Insane]

You can't be 100% sure with any candidate. But you have to make the judgement. As it is the poor performances on the pitch, the infighting amongst fans and miserable feeling in general that seems to be around about the club, something needs to change.

If Coyle can do that, and as he said at the forum 'prove people wrong and change opinions' then great. But if not then a change can't make things much worse...

change can make things worse - or better - or stay the same...

Yep, but there comes a point where you have to try something when everything else has been tried to rectify the situation. Otherwise you're going to lose people paying £30 a pop to watch what was turned out at Burnley......

[thebish]

You can't be 100% sure with any candidate. But you have to make the judgement. As it is the poor performances on the pitch, the infighting amongst fans and miserable feeling in general that seems to be around about the club, something needs to change.

If Coyle can do that, and as he said at the forum 'prove people wrong and change opinions' then great. But if not then a change can't make things much worse...

change can make things worse - or better - or stay the same...

Yep, but there comes a point where you have to try something when everything else has been tried to rectify the situation. Otherwise you're going to lose people paying £30 a pop to watch what was turned out at Burnley......

aye - but it's a gamble.. that's life.

[Worthy4England]

Great! The old candidates list.

I suspect many of those clubs would be offering a more attractive transfer pot than Coyle's successor would...

but - it's a fair point - there's always someone desperate enough for the work - we could roll the dice and pick another...

i doubt there'd be that many candidates about who we could be 100% certain they'd achieve promotion...

if it didn't cost us millions - i'd not lose sleep over losing coyle - but i am not so massively confident that a saviour is waiting behind the door to usher in a new era of success and prosperity...

but then if I was a perky confident little bunny - then i'd not be a bolton fan!

Why would you have to be desperate to come to Bolton as Manager? Historically we've been one of the better funded Clubs in the league (we've generally been about 14th on wages), and I'd be surprised if we weren't very near the top of the funding league in the Championship, even with the wage bill cut.

We do have saleable assets, if Coyle wants some budget, but he seems to think he has enough I guess...

But sure it'd have to be desperation stakes for someone to want to manage a team like us.

[BWFC_Insane]

You can't be 100% sure with any candidate. But you have to make the judgement. As it is the poor performances on the pitch, the infighting amongst fans and miserable feeling in general that seems to be around about the club, something needs to change.

If Coyle can do that, and as he said at the forum 'prove people wrong and change opinions' then great. But if not then a change can't make things much worse...

change can make things worse - or better - or stay the same...

Yep, but there comes a point where you have to try something when everything else has been tried to rectify the situation. Otherwise you're going to lose people paying £30 a pop to watch what was turned out at Burnley......

aye - but it's a gamble.. that's life.

Gamble means its random though, if Coyle doesn't look like taking us up, given he's already taken us down, it's not a blind random assumption to consider that someone might be able to do a better job. If you really want to use the gamble analogy it would a gamble where the odds would be in your favour.

[Worthy4England]

clearly they didn't fancy him long term - so they didn't really judge him to be "better"...

I assumed (obviously incorrectly) that you meant "more capable".

That doesn't hold true necessarily anyhow. They might have fancied him long term, but didn't want to take the gamble of giving him a long term Contract on the off-chance that he didn't keep them up.

Either way - in my opinion, there were better Managerial candidates than Terry Connor applied for the Wolves job (some of whom had actually been Managers). They chose for whatever reason not to employ them, that doesn't make them worse than Terry Connor...

[thebish]

Great! The old candidates list.

I suspect many of those clubs would be offering a more attractive transfer pot than Coyle's successor would...

but - it's a fair point - there's always someone desperate enough for the work - we could roll the dice and pick another...

i doubt there'd be that many candidates about who we could be 100% certain they'd achieve promotion...

if it didn't cost us millions - i'd not lose sleep over losing coyle - but i am not so massively confident that a saviour is waiting behind the door to usher in a new era of success and prosperity...

but then if I was a perky confident little bunny - then i'd not be a bolton fan!

Why would you have to be desperate to come to Bolton as Manager? Historically we've been one of the better funded Clubs in the league (we've generally been about 14th on wages), and I'd be surprised if we weren't very near the top of the funding league in the Championship, even with the wage bill cut.

We do have saleable assets, if Coyle wants some budget, but he seems to think he has enough I guess...

But sure it'd have to be desperation stakes for someone to want to manage a team like us.

badly phrased, I'll grant... I meant "desperate enough" to not hold out for a club with a better transfer pot on offer - and/or some semblance of premiership stability.

like i said - i wouldn't lose any sleep over coyle getting pushed out - I'm just not totally convinced by what seems to be a prevailing assumption that another manager would necessarily be better (the club hasn't got an ace track record recently of picking new managers who lead us to glory and fame) - and that it couldn't possibly be any worse...

[thebish]

Gamble means its random though, if Coyle doesn't look like taking us up, given he's already taken us down, it's not a blind random assumption to consider that someone might be able to do a better job. If you really want to use the gamble analogy it would a gamble where the odds would be in your favour.

I think it's too early to assume Coyle won't take us up - and I'm not sure what the "given he's already taken us down" adds...

it is a gamble (maybe one worth taking - but a gamble nontheless) to assume that new=better

i don't know how you'd even begin to calculate the "odds" that you propose...

[Worthy4England]

Great! The old candidates list.

I suspect many of those clubs would be offering a more attractive transfer pot than Coyle's successor would...

but - it's a fair point - there's always someone desperate enough for the work - we could roll the dice and pick another...

i doubt there'd be that many candidates about who we could be 100% certain they'd achieve promotion...

if it didn't cost us millions - i'd not lose sleep over losing coyle - but i am not so massively confident that a saviour is waiting behind the door to usher in a new era of success and prosperity...

but then if I was a perky confident little bunny - then i'd not be a bolton fan!

Why would you have to be desperate to come to Bolton as Manager? Historically we've been one of the better funded Clubs in the league (we've generally been about 14th on wages), and I'd be surprised if we weren't very near the top of the funding league in the Championship, even with the wage bill cut.

We do have saleable assets, if Coyle wants some budget, but he seems to think he has enough I guess...

But sure it'd have to be desperation stakes for someone to want to manage a team like us.

badly phrased, I'll grant... I meant "desperate enough" to not hold out for a club with a better transfer pot on offer - and/or some semblance of premiership stability.

like i said - i wouldn't lose any sleep over coyle getting pushed out - I'm just not totally convinced by what seems to be a prevailing assumption that another manager would necessarily be better (the club hasn't got an ace track record recently of picking new managers who lead us to glory and fame) - and that it couldn't possibly be any worse...

I'm not totally convinced either - but I'll give it a try.

I'm not convinced by the argument that "long term stability" is any more of a panacea either. I think there's a lot of luck in getting the right person in at the right time.

[thebish]

I'm not totally convinced either - but I'll give it a try.

I'm not convinced by the argument that "long term stability" is any more of a panacea either. I think there's a lot of luck in getting the right person in at the right time.

indeed - luck - gamble - chance... that's life!

[BWFC_Insane]

Great! The old candidates list.

I suspect many of those clubs would be offering a more attractive transfer pot than Coyle's successor would...

but - it's a fair point - there's always someone desperate enough for the work - we could roll the dice and pick another...

i doubt there'd be that many candidates about who we could be 100% certain they'd achieve promotion...

if it didn't cost us millions - i'd not lose sleep over losing coyle - but i am not so massively confident that a saviour is waiting behind the door to usher in a new era of success and prosperity...

but then if I was a perky confident little bunny - then i'd not be a bolton fan!

Why would you have to be desperate to come to Bolton as Manager? Historically we've been one of the better funded Clubs in the league (we've generally been about 14th on wages), and I'd be surprised if we weren't very near the top of the funding league in the Championship, even with the wage bill cut.

We do have saleable assets, if Coyle wants some budget, but he seems to think he has enough I guess...

But sure it'd have to be desperation stakes for someone to want to manage a team like us.

badly phrased, I'll grant... I meant "desperate enough" to not hold out for a club with a better transfer pot on offer - and/or some semblance of premiership stability.

like i said - i wouldn't lose any sleep over coyle getting pushed out - I'm just not totally convinced by what seems to be a prevailing assumption that another manager would necessarily be better (the club hasn't got an ace track record recently of picking new managers who lead us to glory and fame) - and that it couldn't possibly be any worse...

So what youre saying is, we'd have been better placed, when we were a premiership club, of 11 years and still in it to attract a better manager? Say last November....

[Lord Kangana]

Great! The old candidates list.

Swansea - Laudrup
Norwich - Hughton
West Brom - changed a couple of times recently - Hodgson, Clarke
Fulham - Jol
West Ham - Allardyce
Birmingham City - Lee Clark
Reading - McDermott
Southampton - Adkins

All Clubs you could argue about the same clout as us.

No Dowie, No Souness, No Hoddle, No Megson, yadda yadda yadda.

Yet every time we suggest a change, the same old bogey men are rolled out.

Why are none of them at the other Clubs mentioned?

Well, I certainly don't consider Chris Hughton to have achieved anything more than Coyle. Ditto Lee Clarke, who was sacked for not performing up to the task at a heavily spending Huddersfield. McDermott was allowed a couple of goes at getting Reading up. Jol is out of league financially. If you want change simply for change sake then so be it. Its not the picnic you present it as.

And despite his first game thumping win, Laudrup's track record is nothing to shout about in the last few years (I believe that somebody somewhere mentioned that he has left his last couple of jobs after an average of 9 months) so I'm sorry, I'm yet to be convinced that a manager exists out there who you could nail your knackers to the mast, on our budget, and say "yes, promotion guaranteed". Because, and lets be absolutely clear on this, that is the strict criteria we are holding Coyle to. So that must be the minimumm requirement for a new man.

[Worthy4England]

Great! The old candidates list.

Swansea - Laudrup
Norwich - Hughton
West Brom - changed a couple of times recently - Hodgson, Clarke
Fulham - Jol
West Ham - Allardyce
Birmingham City - Lee Clark
Reading - McDermott
Southampton - Adkins

All Clubs you could argue about the same clout as us.

No Dowie, No Souness, No Hoddle, No Megson, yadda yadda yadda.

Yet every time we suggest a change, the same old bogey men are rolled out.

Why are none of them at the other Clubs mentioned?

Well, I certainly don't consider Chris Hughton to have achieved anything more than Coyle. Ditto Lee Clarke, who was sacked for not performing up to the task at a heavily spending Huddersfield. McDermott was allowed a couple of goes at getting Reading up. Jol is out of league financially. If you want change simply for change sake then so be it. Its not the picnic you present it as.

And despite his first game thumping win, Laudrup's track record is nothing to shout about in the last few years (I believe that somebody somewhere mentioned that he has left his last couple of jobs after an average of 9 months) so I'm sorry, I'm yet to be convinced that a manager exists out there who you could nail your knackers to the mast, on our budget, and say "yes, promotion guaranteed". Because, and lets be absolutely clear on this, that is the strict criteria we are holding Coyle to. So that must be the minimumm requirement for a new man.

I was just pointing out that none of them are Souness, Dowie or the usual bogeymen we're threatened with.

What league is Jol in financially out of interest?

The strict criteria we're holding Coyle to, is the one he's said he's beholden to - that promotion is his minimum requirement.

Where do you think our budget is in Championship terms?

[Lord Kangana]

Indeed. And his successor must live up to it.

So I'll answer you question with a question, which manager are you confident will arrive and immediately deliver on our current (and much more importantly) future budgets? Even if we sack Coyle now, who is the realistic candidate who will immediately step in and get us up, this season? Because if they don't this season, they'll have even less money next. And so the spiral will go on.

[BWFC_Insane]

Indeed. And his successor must live up to it.

So I'll answer you question with a question, which manager are you confident will arrive and immediately deliver on our current (and much more importantly) future budgets? Even if we sack Coyle now, who is the realistic candidate who will immediately step in and get us up, this season? Because if they don't this season, they'll have even less money next. And so the spiral will go on.

Same argument always exists. Did when Megson was here. And as it turns out his successor has done no better statistically. And worse in actuality. And before you go on about the money argument, let's remember the only chance Coyle has of making a profit on players currently is down to the last blokes signings.

Megson went because it was hoped we could do better. Sadly it hasn't worked out.

But you don't keep a manager if he looks like failing against his own set performance level, with what is one of the biggest budgets in the division, because you aren't 100% sure if someone else can achieve it.

[norm the jedi]

I'm beginning to think 'not being Owen Coyle' would be good enough reasons to hire almost anyone.
I think the managers influence is somewhat over rated but the O C just looks doomed...

[Lord Kangana]

And before you go on about the money argument, let's remember the only chance Coyle has of making a profit on players currently is down to the last blokes signings.

.

Really? You actually believe that? Theres not much point in arguing a nonsensical argument, but which of these profits are we refering to? Al Habsi? Elmander? Shittu? Robinson?

Who is this big player we've made a profit on? I know, Cahill. £2m. I'm stumbling after that. Genuinely, help me out. Because I call bullshit.

[BWFC_Insane]

And before you go on about the money argument, let's remember the only chance Coyle has of making a profit on players currently is down to the last blokes signings.

.

Really? You actually believe that? Theres not much point in arguing a nonsensical argument, but which of these profits are we refering to? Al Habsi? Elmander? Shittu? Robinson?

Who is this big player we've made a profit on? I know, Cahill. £2m. I'm stumbling after that. Genuinely, help me out. Because I call bullshit.

Well we could have made a 4-5M on Mark Davies had we accepted the Swansea bid. As it is Coyle values him at 10M which would be a 9M profit if anyone matched the asking price.

Cahill has already gone for a profit.

As would LCY.

Probably our only two sellable assets as it stands are Mark Davies and LCY, both Megson signings.

Fulham bid for Ngog but offered less than we paid for him.

[Worthy4England]

Indeed. And his successor must live up to it.

So I'll answer you question with a question, which manager are you confident will arrive and immediately deliver on our current (and much more importantly) future budgets? Even if we sack Coyle now, who is the realistic candidate who will immediately step in and get us up, this season? Because if they don't this season, they'll have even less money next. And so the spiral will go on.

In the spirit of answering a question with a question.

After making every excuse for Coyle in the book last season, we'd have to ensure that any new Manager would guaranteed, get us up first go, using people like Marcos Alonso, Darren Pratley and Tyrone Mears?