Is anybody not convinced yet

[SmokinFrazier]

I always hope that a game like this is where it finally kicks in that certain things aren't working. I like Coyle and I want him to succeed with Bolton but it's getting to the point where he really needs to show managerial ability. I don't want to hear "the boys played well in parts but we can't give away soft goals" or whatever else, I want to hear him say "I was wrong to change". I've defended Coyle a lot and I still want him at the club but he really, really needs to prove he's capable. If we line up with 4-4-2 against Hull and we under perform yet again, I might then be a part of the 'Coyle Out' group.

I'll give you this, m'friend, you're not one to rush into a decision...

Patience is a virtue...


...I think.

[H. Pedersen]

I just think everything which happened last year could have happened to a good, Premier League level manager. I'm not saying that's what Coyle is but I don't think his failure was anywhere near as big as some people have made it out to be given the problems within the squad.

There's no doubt that Coyle suffered some severe setbacks with injuries to Holden and Lee, and then the whole dreadful Muamba business. If we had gone down with 15 points I'd have said fair enough, he didn't have the quality to work with. But the thing is, despite it all, we still ALMOST stayed up.

It wasn't the injuries that doomed us in the end, it was tactical idiocy from Coyle. We start to have some success with 4-5-1, then he switches back to 4-4-2 for the Wigan game and we lose. We're up 2-0 against West Brom, he can't lock it down. We absolutely, positively need a goal against Stoke, we get a corner, and he doesn't throw Bogdan up. It's like he hasn't even thought of this possibility. I don't know that Bogdan would have pulled a Jimmy Glass but come on, at least go for it!

He pulled another classic Coyle boner today, going 4-4-2 when WINNING. If he hasn't learned by now, it's not going to happen. Coyle out.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

did we have another midfielder to put on? was M. Davies visibly tiring?
Vela went off injured early doors, am i right?
Was the ball coming staright back at us and it looked like Sordell needed some help holding it up?
were we comfortable playing 4-5-1? how were individuals playing at the time of the substitution - well? poorly? was bringing on our most experienced player if we were under the cosh clearly such a massive blunder? is hindsight a wonderful thing?
questions, questions questions- to which i dont know the answer coz i wasn't feckin there.
unlike all of the previous two pages of posters obviously.
seems to me like quite a few on here are rubbing their hands in glee at us getting beat tonight.

[H. Pedersen]

seems to me like quite a few on here are rubbing their hands in glee at us getting beat tonight.

If I thought this was the nail in the coffin of Owen Coyle's Bolton management career, then I'd probably consider it worth the sacrifice of a League Cup run. I don't expect Gartside to actually do anything to earn his salary though so I'm not actually feeling any "glee."

[H. Pedersen]

did we have another midfielder to put on? was M. Davies visibly tiring?
Vela went off injured early doors, am i right?

If only there were some sort of "window" of opportunity in which Coyle could "transfer" players into the club.

Also Ricketts or Ream could play DM in a pinch.

[IggyTheDawgster]

Speechless. Apart from that. and that...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

did we have another midfielder to put on? was M. Davies visibly tiring?
Vela went off injured early doors, am i right?
Was the ball coming staright back at us and it looked like Sordell needed some help holding it up?
were we comfortable playing 4-5-1? how were individuals playing at the time of the substitution - well? poorly? was bringing on our most experienced player if we were under the cosh clearly such a massive blunder? is hindsight a wonderful thing?
questions, questions questions- to which i dont know the answer coz i wasn't feckin there.
unlike all of the previous two pages of posters obviously.
seems to me like quite a few on here are rubbing their hands in glee at us getting beat tonight.

I was there. I have, I think you'll agree, been very far from being a knee-jerker or a hand-rubber.

We didn't have another midfielder to put on. That's no reason to take one off for an attacker.

We were far more comfortable playing 4-5-1 than we have been this season playing 4-4-2. Including the last 25 minutes tonight.

MD wasn't visibly tiring, no. Vela had gone off, yes.

The ball wasn't always coming straight back at us - Petrov was creating chances almost at will. Eagles was coming in from his wing too often, but that's something his manager could have stopped. And again, that's no reason to take off a midfielder for an attacker.

At the time of the substitution, we weren't on top but we weren't desperate. Like you, I can see the benefit in bringing on KD as an out-ball, but not at the expense of reducing the numbers in midfield.

I've written and submitted a match report, which ends in my further thoughts on the matter.

[General Mannerheim]

just baffling how there is support for the man. he is completely fecking inept.

i cant believe the ex player schtig either, Gary Cahill scored more goals for us than Coyle did! I wonder if, in 10/15 years, Klasnic or Elmander would be afforded so much time and patience if they became our manager and lost 85% of our games = because they both have better player stats with the club that St Owen!

[a1]

just baffling how there is support for the man. he is completely fecking inept.

i cant believe the ex player schtig either, Gary Cahill scored more goals for us than Coyle did! I wonder if, in 10/15 years, Klasnic or Elmander would be afforded so much time and patience if they became our manager and lost 85% of our games = because they both have better player stats with the club that St Owen!

i said that about elmander the other day.

and the cahill stat is almost unbelievable.

johan4manager

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Convinced Coyle is tactically inept....yes.
Convinced he wont succeed in taking us up....yes.
Convinced the chairman/owner have planned Coyle for a long term job here....yes.
Convinced there are are better alternatives out there....no.
Convinced he will be given more time....yes, given he has been a long term remit sacking him now would be rather silly.
Convinced our club is headed for a period in the wilderness....yes, sadly.

[bobo the clown]

.... Also Ricketts or Ream could play DM in a pinch.

exactly.

It's unlikely they would be World class, but they don't need to be. Playing in that position requires little more (assuming you are a professional footballer in the first place) than a cool head, an ability to read the game, a little speed & an ability to put your foot in or jockey a player when necessary.

Not everyone could do it, but most can, to a tolerable extent.

It does, however, require the manager to want that role fulfilled. He didn't last year when we had 2 highly capable options.

The man's an idiot.

[50sQuiff]

did we have another midfielder to put on? was M. Davies visibly tiring?
Vela went off injured early doors, am i right?
Was the ball coming staright back at us and it looked like Sordell needed some help holding it up?
were we comfortable playing 4-5-1? how were individuals playing at the time of the substitution - well? poorly? was bringing on our most experienced player if we were under the cosh clearly such a massive blunder? is hindsight a wonderful thing?
questions, questions questions- to which i dont know the answer coz i wasn't feckin there.
unlike all of the previous two pages of posters obviously.
seems to me like quite a few on here are rubbing their hands in glee at us getting beat tonight.

Very fair points, especially with only 300-odd fans there. But anyone making assumptions is doing so on the basis of 18 months of rock solid evidence. We know the story so well and it never ever seems to change. That's what makes it so excruciating, for me at least. Even with Cahill - Champions League winner and future England captain - we still shipped goals at an alarming rate. It's because it's open season on our centre backs for 90 minutes, amongst other things.

[thebish]

.... Also Ricketts or Ream could play DM in a pinch.

exactly.

it's kind of a tangential point - but IIRC, not that long ago, Ream was castigated as dogpoo in that position, wasn't he - or am I getting him mixed up with someone else??

[bobo the clown]

seems to me like quite a few on here are rubbing their hands in glee at us getting beat tonight.

If I thought this was the nail in the coffin of Owen Coyle's Bolton management career, then I'd probably consider it worth the sacrifice of a League Cup run. I don't expect Gartside to actually do anything to earn his salary though so I'm not actually feeling any "glee."

It's not a matter of glee ... this is awful.

But his rise ended at Wembley .... maybe aided by the awful injury to Holden a few weeks prior. After that we ended that season in a tailspin. That could be put down to end-of-season malaise .... but our slip by 6-8 league places cost us £millions.

The next season was a shake yourself down & start again. We had lost some players & then Lee & Holden injuries arose (re-arose) & that was difficult, but it is the disorganisation, the lack of knowing what is clear to all, not playing players in position, having an obsession with 4-4-2, sheer obstinance, players clearly not fit, no clear plan at set-pieces ... whetehr attacking or defending.

He could have been binned last Novemenber. I thought that would have been harsh, at the time. He had an accidental good run when 4-5-1 was forced upon him. That was reversed as quickly as he was able ... & the form duly went with it.

He could (should, in my view) have gone last February after the Wiggin at home debacle. The powers decided he deserved more time. We got relegated, but it was deemed fair that he was given the opportunity to complete his rebuilding (harumph).

This season has shown already that there will be no change. No acceptance that he's got it wrong.

This isn't a knee jerk, there's no glee, there's no wanting hisfailure. But it has to stop & it won't if he's kept on .... & no, we can't wait till November, or January. He'll have done too much damage by then.

This bad form has gone on for 18 months, it's lost us good players, stopped us persuading other good players joining us & has cost us a fortune in money.

He has to go.

[midlands exile]

seems to me like quite a few on here are rubbing their hands in glee at us getting beat tonight.

If I thought this was the nail in the coffin of Owen Coyle's Bolton management career, then I'd probably consider it worth the sacrifice of a League Cup run. I don't expect Gartside to actually do anything to earn his salary though so I'm not actually feeling any "glee."

It's not a matter of glee ... this is awful.

But his rise ended at Wembley .... maybe aided by the awful injury to Holden a few weeks prior. After that we ended that season in a tailspin. That could be put down to end-of-season malaise .... but our slip by 6-8 league places cost us £millions.

The next season was a shake yourself down & start again. We had lost some players & then Lee & Holden injuries arose (re-arose) & that was difficult, but it is the disorganisation, the lack of knowing what is clear to all, not playing players in position, having an obsession with 4-4-2, sheer obstinance, players clearly not fit, no clear plan at set-pieces ... whetehr attacking or defending.

He could have been binned last Novemenber. I thought that would have been harsh, at the time. He had an accidental good run when 4-5-1 was forced upon him. That was reversed as quickly as he was able ... & the form duly went with it.

He could (should, in my view) have gone last February after the Wiggin at home debacle. The powers decided he deserved more time. We got relegated, but it was deemed fair that he was given the opportunity to complete his rebuilding (harumph).

This season has shown already that there will be no change. No acceptance that he's got it wrong.

This isn't a knee jerk, there's no glee, there's no wanting hisfailure. But it has to stop & it won't if he's kept on .... & no, we can't wait till November, or January. He'll have done too much damage by then.

This bad form has gone on for 18 months, it's lost us good players, stopped us persuading other good players joining us & has cost us a fortune in money.

He has to go.

That should be the editorial in today's Bolton news...

[CrazyHorse]

It's not a matter of glee ... this is awful.

But his rise ended at Wembley .... maybe aided by the awful injury to Holden a few weeks prior. After that we ended that season in a tailspin. That could be put down to end-of-season malaise .... but our slip by 6-8 league places cost us £millions.

The next season was a shake yourself down & start again. We had lost some players & then Lee & Holden injuries arose (re-arose) & that was difficult, but it is the disorganisation, the lack of knowing what is clear to all, not playing players in position, having an obsession with 4-4-2, sheer obstinance, players clearly not fit, no clear plan at set-pieces ... whetehr attacking or defending.

He could have been binned last Novemenber. I thought that would have been harsh, at the time. He had an accidental good run when 4-5-1 was forced upon him. That was reversed as quickly as he was able ... & the form duly went with it.

He could (should, in my view) have gone last February after the Wiggin at home debacle. The powers decided he deserved more time. We got relegated, but it was deemed fair that he was given the opportunity to complete his rebuilding (harumph).

This season has shown already that there will be no change. No acceptance that he's got it wrong.

This isn't a knee jerk, there's no glee, there's no wanting hisfailure. But it has to stop & it won't if he's kept on .... & no, we can't wait till November, or January. He'll have done too much damage by then.

This bad form has gone on for 18 months, it's lost us good players, stopped us persuading other good players joining us & has cost us a fortune in money.

He has to go.

[Ianmooreslovechild]

Didnt the board say we couldnt afford to sack him after the wigan game.In terms of cost/benefit analysis that's not looking too astute at present.

I've had enough though.It's not the bad results or the relegation or the seal antics or the apparent loss of belief from the players or the deluded press conferences or the failure to sign players capable of playing his preferred formation or the zany substitutions or the perceived favouritism for certain players and dislike of others or the carping about how crap individuals are after his tactics go wrong or the slow left back or the tiny centre half or the 25 wingers or the no signings that can tackle policy or the no strikers that can score policy or the no practing set pieces policy.Nor is it the refusal to give youngsters a chance or accept that anything is his fault.

I can live with all that. It's just his shorts. I dont like them and for that he must die.

[HM Murdock]

Well said Bobo - nail hit perfectly on the head there!

[Mar]

I'd also be one to note that we've really fked up our scouting network. We were poaching decent talent from the likes of Tunisia, Senegal, Israel, etc. and getting decent service out of those player types on really cheap wages (arguably the reason Tal Ben Haim and Abdoulaye Faye left us). Now we're getting piss poor performances from players we're having to spend money on.

Yes, we've turned our academy into a promising on but don't do it to the detriment of players coming in from overseas.

[Bruce Rioja]

Who wrote that for you, Bobo?

Absolutely smack knacker on the money, Sir.