How the mighty have fallen? Bolton v Wigan

[ratters]

Having watched BW huff and puff their way to a lucky draw v Nottm Forest, I watched Wigan destroy them 4-1 on their own patch last night whilst we were losing ignominiously at Crawley.

So what has gone wrong.We were better than Wigan for most of last year. We have a better ground, better fans (Wigan is still a rugby town!) and better attendances.

The difference is managers and players. We have signed Championship standard players for the past 2 years whilst Martinez has an overseas network to attract cheap players with premiership class (its that word again)

Laudrup has done the same at Swansea and, when asked why he went to Spain for players, he said the Euro is weak, Spanish football is in the doldrums so good players are keen to come to the UK cheaply as a means of furthering their careers. We did the same with Sam with inexpensive imports from Africa, America and Israel.

So what does Coyle do? Buys mediocre players surplus to requirements of decent clubs and doesn't know how to play them. He cannot be trusted to sign any other players and, if we are to be saved from ignominy, we need a manager with European credibility and experience and it must be done now.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Slow down it's only 2 league games into the prem and Wigan have won one and lost one.
Ok they won 4-1 at Forest in the COC , i dont see that merits an earth shattering philisophical footballing discussion about a shift in power. This time next year there's a solid chance they'll be in the Champinonship and we'll be in the prem.

[jaffka]

Having watched BW huff and puff their way to a lucky draw v Nottm Forest, I watched Wigan destroy them 4-1 on their own patch last night whilst we were losing ignominiously at Crawley.

So what has gone wrong.We were better than Wigan for most of last year. We have a better ground, better fans (Wigan is still a rugby town!) and better attendances.

The difference is managers and players. We have signed Championship standard players for the past 2 years whilst Martinez has an overseas network to attract cheap players with premiership class (its that word again)

Laudrup has done the same at Swansea and, when asked why he went to Spain for players, he said the Euro is weak, Spanish football is in the doldrums so good players are keen to come to the UK cheaply as a means of furthering their careers. We did the same with Sam with inexpensive imports from Africa, America and Israel.

So what does Coyle do? Buys mediocre players surplus to requirements of decent clubs and doesn't know how to play them. He cannot be trusted to sign any other players and, if we are to be saved from ignominy, we need a manager with European credibility and experience and it must be done now.

Feck me, are you a closet red?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

At one point last season Wigan lost nine on the bounce. At another they didn't win in 10. Let's not rush to suck Martinez's melons.

I don't believe the idea that they sign "premiership class" players and we sign cast-offs. I can only imagine the outcry had Coyle signed Jean Beausejour from Birmingham, David Jones from Wolves, Fraser Fyvie from Aberdeen, Connor Sammon from Kilmarnock, Shaun Maloney from Celtic, James McArthur from Hamilton, James McCarthy from Hamilton, Albert Crusat from Almeria, Gary Caldwell from Celtic etc.

But they do appear to have a plan, and one that changes. After that second disastrous run Martinez switched to three at the back, and although it will be found out eventually - such is the cyclical nature of the back three, it comes and goes in generations - it was enough to keep us up. Coyle also tried a different formation last spring, which got better results, then abandoned it and lost our Premiership place. Last night he abandoned a winning formula and lost us the game.

Martinez isn't a brilliant manager but he's better than Coyle. If they swapped jobs, Martinez's Bolton would easily beat Coyle's Wigan.

[boltonboris]

Having watched BW huff and puff their way to a lucky draw v Nottm Forest, I watched Wigan destroy them 4-1 on their own patch last night whilst we were losing ignominiously at Crawley.

So what has gone wrong.We were better than Wigan for most of last year. We have a better ground, better fans (Wigan is still a rugby town!) and better attendances.

The difference is managers and players. We have signed Championship standard players for the past 2 years whilst Martinez has an overseas network to attract cheap players with premiership class (its that word again)

Laudrup has done the same at Swansea and, when asked why he went to Spain for players, he said the Euro is weak, Spanish football is in the doldrums so good players are keen to come to the UK cheaply as a means of furthering their careers. We did the same with Sam with inexpensive imports from Africa, America and Israel.

So what does Coyle do? Buys mediocre players surplus to requirements of decent clubs and doesn't know how to play them. He cannot be trusted to sign any other players and, if we are to be saved from ignominy, we need a manager with European credibility and experience and it must be done now.

Better?? Bollocks...

More? Yes.

Wigan fans don't routinely boo their players when they're drawing. They also don't abuse their own players. The fans that they have actually get behind their team..

[BWFC_Insane]

Having watched BW huff and puff their way to a lucky draw v Nottm Forest, I watched Wigan destroy them 4-1 on their own patch last night whilst we were losing ignominiously at Crawley.

So what has gone wrong.We were better than Wigan for most of last year. We have a better ground, better fans (Wigan is still a rugby town!) and better attendances.

The difference is managers and players. We have signed Championship standard players for the past 2 years whilst Martinez has an overseas network to attract cheap players with premiership class (its that word again)

Laudrup has done the same at Swansea and, when asked why he went to Spain for players, he said the Euro is weak, Spanish football is in the doldrums so good players are keen to come to the UK cheaply as a means of furthering their careers. We did the same with Sam with inexpensive imports from Africa, America and Israel.

So what does Coyle do? Buys mediocre players surplus to requirements of decent clubs and doesn't know how to play them. He cannot be trusted to sign any other players and, if we are to be saved from ignominy, we need a manager with European credibility and experience and it must be done now.

Better?? Bollocks...

More? Yes.

Wigan fans don't routinely boo their players when they're drawing. They also don't abuse their own players. The fans that they have actually get behind their team..

I think you'll find the booing and abuse is the same at all clubs in similar circumstances!

[boltonboris]

Never heard of any Wigan players becoming unhappy at the club they're at because of fans' abuse.

[wanderers_on_tour]

Just to add salt to the wounds Wigan are in talks with a honduran midfielder called Roger Espinoza . Now a couple of months ago the name would have mean't nowt to me but after getting tickets to see Honduras v Brazil in the olympics a few week back he was responsible for putting in possibly one of the best footballing performances i've ever seen live. To pick up man of the match in a losing feat against players such as neymar jr, leandro damaio, pato, ganso, oscar etc. is no mean feat, if they buy him it'll be an absolute coup.

[boltonboris]

Was he the defensive midfielder? The one who (unluckily) got sent off and still won man of the match?

[Gary the Enfield]

At one point last season Wigan lost nine on the bounce. At another they didn't win in 10. Let's not rush to suck Martinez's melons.

I don't believe the idea that they sign "premiership class" players and we sign cast-offs. I can only imagine the outcry had Coyle signed Jean Beausejour from Birmingham, David Jones from Wolves, Fraser Fyvie from Aberdeen, Connor Sammon from Kilmarnock, Shaun Maloney from Celtic, James McArthur from Hamilton, James McCarthy from Hamilton, Albert Crusat from Almeria, Gary Caldwell from Celtic etc.

But they do appear to have a plan, and one that changes. After that second disastrous run Martinez switched to three at the back, and although it will be found out eventually - such is the cyclical nature of the back three, it comes and goes in generations - it was enough to keep us up. Coyle also tried a different formation last spring, which got better results, then abandoned it and lost our Premiership place. Last night he abandoned a winning formula and lost us the game.

Martinez isn't a brilliant manager but he's better than Coyle. If they swapped jobs, Martinez's Bolton would easily beat Coyle's Wigan.

DSB's a pie-eater?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

At one point last season Wigan lost nine on the bounce. At another they didn't win in 10. Let's not rush to suck Martinez's melons.

I don't believe the idea that they sign "premiership class" players and we sign cast-offs. I can only imagine the outcry had Coyle signed Jean Beausejour from Birmingham, David Jones from Wolves, Fraser Fyvie from Aberdeen, Connor Sammon from Kilmarnock, Shaun Maloney from Celtic, James McArthur from Hamilton, James McCarthy from Hamilton, Albert Crusat from Almeria, Gary Caldwell from Celtic etc.

But they do appear to have a plan, and one that changes. After that second disastrous run Martinez switched to three at the back, and although it will be found out eventually - such is the cyclical nature of the back three, it comes and goes in generations - it was enough to keep us up. Coyle also tried a different formation last spring, which got better results, then abandoned it and lost our Premiership place. Last night he abandoned a winning formula and lost us the game.

Martinez isn't a brilliant manager but he's better than Coyle. If they swapped jobs, Martinez's Bolton would easily beat Coyle's Wigan.

DSB's a pie-eater?

Ha! Poor mid-sentence rewrite, honest injun. I do like pies though.

[benn]

Slow down it's only 2 league games into the prem and Wigan have won one and lost one.
Ok they won 4-1 at Forest in the COC , i dont see that merits an earth shattering philisophical footballing discussion about a shift in power. This time next year there's a solid chance they'll be in the Champinonship and we'll be in the prem.

to be fair to Ratters I watched this game too with the sound off whilst keeping up to date with our game. Wigan were very very impressive. They have now played 3 games and from the reports I have seen have carried on where they left off last season with a couple of good quality foreign additions. They played some good stuff against a very strong Chelsea side when they lost.

in my view they will be mid table at worse.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

They haven't got north of 45 points in six seasons. It's worked for 'em - if somewhat fortuitously when they stayed up by one goal on 38 points - but let's not get carried away. If they joined that midtable morass - Stoke, Sunderland, Fulham, West Brom, that lot - they'd be delighted; if they topped them, I'd be astonished.

[Dr.Karl]

Having watched BW huff and puff their way to a lucky draw v Nottm Forest, I watched Wigan destroy them 4-1 on their own patch last night whilst we were losing ignominiously at Crawley.

So what has gone wrong.We were better than Wigan for most of last year. We have a better ground, better fans (Wigan is still a rugby town!) and better attendances.

The difference is managers and players. We have signed Championship standard players for the past 2 years whilst Martinez has an overseas network to attract cheap players with premiership class (its that word again)

Laudrup has done the same at Swansea and, when asked why he went to Spain for players, he said the Euro is weak, Spanish football is in the doldrums so good players are keen to come to the UK cheaply as a means of furthering their careers. We did the same with Sam with inexpensive imports from Africa, America and Israel.

So what does Coyle do? Buys mediocre players surplus to requirements of decent clubs and doesn't know how to play them. He cannot be trusted to sign any other players and, if we are to be saved from ignominy, we need a manager with European credibility and experience and it must be done now.

You'd have to explain that to me. In what sense exactly?

I actually think we had the players to stay up last year. I've never understood certain managers transfer policies. Its always been the case that foreign players are going to be better value for money(even before the homegrown rule). It's just scouting/finding them. Maybe that is too much work for some managers? I think Cazorla went for £12m and Fletcher for £14m this Summer. Seems nuts.

It's hard to disagree with your assessment overall though. It's just bad management from top to bottom.

[wanderers_on_tour]

Was he the defensive midfielder? The one who (unluckily) got sent off and still won man of the match?

Yep, that's the guy. Defensive midfielder but scored a belter from outside then penalty area.


Jealous!

[boltonboris]

He was impressive.. Plays in the States too.. So he WAS in our "scouting network"..

I had to try and say that without laughing.. I struggled..

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Laudrup has done the same at Swansea and, when asked why he went to Spain for players, he said the Euro is weak, Spanish football is in the doldrums so good players are keen to come to the UK cheaply as a means of furthering their careers.

You'd have to explain that to me. In what sense exactly?

In the sense that it's such a laughable duopoly, it makes Scotland (pre-Rangers' demotion) look like a wide-open competition and the Premier League look like a model of effective wealth redistribution. Because Real Madrid and Barcelona demand the right to separate TV negotiations from the rest of the league, they've got all the power and all the money. That's why they finished so far clear of the rest last season: third-placed Valencia finished 30 points behind Barça and only 20 points clear of relegation. It's a farce of a "league", with two kings and the rest serfs. That's why all the best players from the other teams – if they can't wangle a move to the big two - are fleeing; why Arouna Kone left Europa-qualified Levante for Wigan f*cking Athletic.

[scotty]

Is it correct that this is the first season ever that Wigan have been in a higher division than Bolton?

[Athers]

Laudrup has done the same at Swansea and, when asked why he went to Spain for players, he said the Euro is weak, Spanish football is in the doldrums so good players are keen to come to the UK cheaply as a means of furthering their careers.

You'd have to explain that to me. In what sense exactly?

In the sense that it's such a laughable duopoly, it makes Scotland (pre-Rangers' demotion) look like a wide-open competition and the Premier League look like a model of effective wealth redistribution. Because Real Madrid and Barcelona demand the right to separate TV negotiations from the rest of the league, they've got all the power and all the money. That's why they finished so far clear of the rest last season: third-placed Valencia finished 30 points behind Barça and only 20 points clear of relegation. It's a farce of a "league", with two kings and the rest serfs. That's why all the best players from the other teams – if they can't wangle a move to the big two - are fleeing; why Arouna Kone left Europa-qualified Levante for Wigan f*cking Athletic.

Got so used to it, it almost does not compute to think Valencia, Depor and even Sociedad finished above one of the giants less than 10 years ago!

(Surely Kone was pushed out for Levante to turn a quick profit on him after exercising their option on him)

[irie Cee Bee]

Martinez isn't a brilliant manager but he's better than Coyle. If they swapped jobs, Martinez's Bolton would easily beat Coyle's Wigan.

DSB's a pie-eater?

Excellent point this.