Is it time yet?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Remember that team that got promoted without ever picking up a point away?

yeah me neither

That's the problem. Even a 100% home record (which we can't get due to letting Forest run straight through our central midfield) yields 69pts, not enough for the play-offs. And Coyle has long been susceptible to away defeats.

Even in the season he took Burnley up (2008/09), they only won 7 away games: by comparison, the side Allardyce took up through the play-offs won 14 road trips. In fact, from Christmas 2008 Burnley only won 2 of their last 11 away league games before promotion.

Once in the Premier League (2009/10), Burnley were notably hopeless on the road, losing 9 of their 10 away games. The exception was a 3-3 draw at Mark Hughes' Man City, which made it a round 20 conceded in their first six trips: they then conceded another 5 at West Ham, before losing 2-0 at Portsmouth, Wolves and Everton.

Then Coyle switched to Bolton, taking with him his assistant manager, first-team coach, goalkeeper coach, chief scout and awful away record. Again Coyle's team lost 9 and drew 1, although adding 2 wins: Coyle's seventh trip, at West Ham thanks to early goals from KD and Wilsh, before immediately reverting to a 4-0 fisting at Sunderland. (The other away win was a quick turnaround at Stoke, who would loom large in his legend later on.)

In 2010/11 we won our first trip, again at charity-case West Ham. We also won memorably at Wolves in November, but that was it: we'd have to wait nine months for the next three-point raid.

Again it came in the first trip of the season, to Loftus Road, and in this instance it actually was a harbinger of improved away form: it was our home form that got us relegated, our 16-point home 'haul' (W4 D4 L11) being the Premier League's poorest in the last nine years bar laughing-stocks Wolves (2013), Derby (2008) and Sunderland (2006).

For once, Coyle's team fared better away than at home: we won at QPR, Wigan, Blackburn, Everton, Wolves and Villa. But they were all struggling, either in form or the table, when we played them. This season, we even seem to have lost the ability to triumph at poor teams, reverting to even worse than the Coyle norm by losing at Burnley, Hull and Birmingham, none of whom are setting the second tier aflame.

That's qualitative; let's get back to numbers. Coyle's record in away league games since Christmas 2008 is played 74, W12 D14 L48. That's a 16.2% chance of winning, a 64.8% chance of defeat. Almost exactly two in three trips will bring defeat, and this season he's doing even worse than that. True, this season is a small survey sample, perhaps even statistically inadmissable. Will four years' evidence do instead? Put it this way: if, as some like to hope (although I still doubt), his job depends on winning this weekend, it's something he keeps proving himself incapable of doing.

2008/09 - from Christmas 2008 W2 D5 L4
2009/10 - W0 D1 L9 (Burnley)
2009/10 - W2 D1 L9 (Bolton)
2010/11 - W2 D5 L12
2011/12 - W6 D2 L11
2012/13 - W0 D0 L3

[Athers]

The away form makes you a success, a lot of teams have a similar home record

For example 10th place Brighton last year and 3rd place West Ham had the same record 11-8-4 (41pts)

http://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistic ... 12Full.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically if you want to do well you have to win half your away games.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Other things you need to do to win away from home:

- Stop the opposition scoring
- Score from open play occasionally

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The away form makes you a success, a lot of teams have a similar home record

For example 10th place Brighton last year and 3rd place West Ham had the same record 11-8-4 (41pts)

http://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistic ... 12Full.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically if you want to do well you have to win half your away games.

Sounds about right. For a bit of historical context (expanded from the above), Sam's Bolton went up in 2001 with an away record of W14 D5 L4 (F36 A17) and a home return of W10 D10 L3 (F40 A28). Eleven (11!) teams in that division that year won more home games, including Barnsley, who were 16th.

We didn't get beat often at home but we were notably defensively tighter away, with the division's lowest total of goals conceded on the road. It's almost like we had a Plan Two, or whatever they're called.

[malcd1]

So at the moment 57 people have voted in the poll asking is it time Coyle should be sacked now.

53 want him sacked, 3 want him to stay and 1 is taking the piss. That is pretty overwhelming.

[thebish]

So at the moment 57 people have voted in the poll asking is it time Coyle should be sacked now.

53 want him sacked, 3 want him to stay and 1 is taking the piss. That is pretty overwhelming.

I'm sure Garty and Eddie are having an urgent conference call as we speak!! "Have you seen that TW poll, Eddie?? boy are we fecked!"

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So at the moment 57 people have voted in the poll asking is it time Coyle should be sacked now.

53 want him sacked, 3 want him to stay and 1 is taking the piss. That is pretty overwhelming.

I'm sure Garty and Eddie are having an urgent conference call as we speak!! "Have you seen that TW poll, Eddie?? boy are we fecked!"

Could we email it to them d'you think. Get it put on the agenda at the next governors meeting or whatever the fck it is they do when they gather in the boardroom (probably moan about the sandwiches and the price of Spaniards).

[thebish]

So at the moment 57 people have voted in the poll asking is it time Coyle should be sacked now.

53 want him sacked, 3 want him to stay and 1 is taking the piss. That is pretty overwhelming.

I'm sure Garty and Eddie are having an urgent conference call as we speak!! "Have you seen that TW poll, Eddie?? boy are we fecked!"

Could we email it to them d'you think. Get it put on the agenda at the next governors meeting or whatever the fck it is they do when they gather in the boardroom (probably moan about the sandwiches and the price of Spaniards).

you can pick up two Spaniards for a pony down in Torquay docks...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I was thinking more the likes of Alonso, but I'll bear that information in mind for when I'm next down south.

[Prufrock]

Home form stops you getting relegated, away form wins you things. Good job our home form is good then.

[officer_dibble]

So far

I really hope he's gone after saturday to give the next guy time. And to restore my rapidly waning belief on gartsides abilities and vision.

[BWFC_Insane]

As much as I think Gartside has done a fantastic job for us, I do worry that part of the procrastinating over Coyle is that he is truly stumped as to where to turn next.

If it comes to bear it would be the most crucial managerial appointment he would have to make, since his first appointment of Allardyce.

[Ianmooreslovechild]

As much as I think Gartside has done a fantastic job for us, I do worry that part of the procrastinating over Coyle is that he is truly stumped as to where to turn next.

If it comes to bear it would be the most crucial managerial appointment he would have to make, since his first appointment of Allardyce.

May be true and certainly a huge appointment. Thing is that not acting is an act in itself and an increasingly negative one. Time to bite the bullet. I imagine he's relutant for many reasons. Not least coyle being a nice fella and the bond created during the Moo incident,which has been to coyle what the falklands were to Thatcher except he's failed to take his chance

[MasGib]

Should he go?
Who is there available? Harry Redknap lol he has almost bust every club he has been at.
Managers you never want at your club.
1. Graham Suness,
2.David O,Dreary.
3. Ian Dowie.
4. Garry Megson.
Who would come to BWFC?
Let’s face it Mr Gartside has only made one decent appointment, Big Sam and where is he now. Top half of the Prem with quite a few of our old players.
Who would you want?
Would you want a bright young manager or a tried and tested one?
I have a feeling we will get Phil Brown, but what has he done since leaving us saved Hull and got them promoted and relegated and sacked from all clubs since then.
We are fans, Mr Davies owns the club and has invested around £100m in BWFC, also we only have scant information in what’s going on behind the scenes.
I believe Mr Coyle is tactically inept and unable to motivate the players, ergo he should go.
Let’s face it brothers BWFC is an unfashionable small town club with only one saviour Mr E Davies who has put his money where his heart is, could you choose a successor? I couldn’t!

[Hoboh]

Should he go?
Who is there available? Harry Redknap lol he has almost bust every club he has been at.
Managers you never want at your club.
1. Graham Suness,
2.David O,Dreary.
3. Ian Dowie.
4. Garry Megson.
Who would come to BWFC?
Let’s face it Mr Gartside has only made one decent appointment, Big Sam and where is he now. Top half of the Prem with quite a few of our old players.
Who would you want?
Would you want a bright young manager or a tried and tested one?
I have a feeling we will get Phil Brown, but what has he done since leaving us saved Hull and got them promoted and relegated and sacked from all clubs since then.
We are fans, Mr Davies owns the club and has invested around £100m in BWFC, also we only have scant information in what’s going on behind the scenes.
I believe Mr Coyle is tactically inept and unable to motivate the players, ergo he should go.
Let’s face it brothers BWFC is an unfashionable small town club with only one saviour Mr E Davies who has put his money where his heart is, could you choose a successor? I couldn’t!

GN4metbh

[Holden midfielder]

Bob Bradley

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

2.David O,Dreary.

I don't get this...

Leeds
(Oct) 98-99 - 4th
99-00 - 3rd, UEFA Cup semi-finalists
00-01 - 4th, Champions League semi-finalists
01-02 - 5th, UEFA Cup fourth round
Sacked by Leeds after criticising the sale of his best player to their fiercest rivals.

Villa
03/04 - 6th
04/05 - 10th
05/06 - 16th.
Left by mutual consent after the players felt moved to issue a press release complaining about Doug Ellis (but not O'Leary)

Yes, his Leeds side overspent, but I've only heard of one manager who has refused to use a cheque given to him by the chairman, and that's Owen Coyle. Yep, his Villa side may not have broken the glass ceiling under the top four either, but neither did they under Martin O'Neill with a billionaire owner.

There's far worse about than O'Leary.

[BWFC_Insane]

2.David O,Dreary.

I don't get this...

Leeds
(Oct) 98-99 - 4th
99-00 - 3rd, UEFA Cup semi-finalists
00-01 - 4th, Champions League semi-finalists
01-02 - 5th, UEFA Cup fourth round
Sacked by Leeds after criticising the sale of his best player to their fiercest rivals.

Villa
03/04 - 6th
04/05 - 10th
05/06 - 16th.
Left by mutual consent after the players felt moved to issue a press release complaining about Doug Ellis (but not O'Leary)

Yes, his Leeds side overspent, but I've only heard of one manager who has refused to use a cheque given to him by the chairman, and that's Owen Coyle. Yep, his Villa side may not have broken the glass ceiling under the top four either, but neither did they under Martin O'Neill with a billionaire owner.

There's far worse about than O'Leary.

This partly illustrates for me why going on about managerial records, promotions/relegations is somewhat pointless.

On this basis "O'Leary IN".

However, to me, it just wouldn't "feel right" appointing him.

And I can't quantify that for any tangible reason.

Other than, I just can't see him having the drive and force of character that I believe is necessary to turn us around.........

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

O'Leary may well not be right. In fact he's probably wrong. I was just illustrating that he hardly deserves the opprobrium he gets, and certainly his Leeds team were far from dreary.

But now you mention it, you want to ignore the CV and appoint on "feel"? Those better be some f*cking good fingertips, my friend....

[BWFC_Insane]

O'Leary may well not be right. In fact he's probably wrong. I was just illustrating that he hardly deserves the opprobrium he gets, and certainly his Leeds team were far from dreary.

But now you mention it, you want to ignore the CV and appoint on "feel"? Those better be some f*cking good fingertips, my friend....

Pretty much. Though it has to be a combination of the two.

I refer back to the selection between Allardyce and Roy Evans back in the day. One had the better CV, certainly headlines wise.

But the other presumably was the "better fit and feel" at the time.

And outside of football, when I recruit, I usually find a "feel" is a better judge than picking the most impressive CV. Not always. But often.

Also depends how a CV is judged.

I suspect that if you take out of work managers, (and lets pretend he'd come) Benitez has one of the best CV's. Again would you think him to be right for our current situation?