The Religion Thread

[Hoboh]

Evenin' Tango...

I've been sinning... How about you?

Wow! clap clap, clap what a masterpiece entrance that was William.
Seriously impressed!

[thebish]

You wouldn't want to know if Jesus had a family? I'm not a particularly religious person (anymore) but I would be more than curious to see what the son of god's great great great great great (plus however many's) grandson would look like or be like. Wouldn't you? Perhaps he'd have some family heirlooms knocking about, the odd grail or somesuch.

in a word - no!

(as it happens I'm fairly sure he didn't have kids - but I'd not be that interested if he did... In the same way I am a Bob Dylan fan - but I'm not interested in his kids or grandkids and I don't know if he has any or if he does how many and what their names are... same with all the Bolton players - did Nat Lofthouse have kids, grand-kids? am I interested in seeing what they look like? nahhhh!)

Genuine question because I'm confused. I'm not that familiar with your particular denomination or it's doctrine but are you saying that Jesus is no more important in your life than Nat Lofthouse or Bob Dylan? And that you wouldn't want to know how he lived his life because it's not relevant? (Okay, 2 questions)

errr... no - I am saying that I am no more interested in Dylan's kids than I am in the question of whether Jesus had any. (ie - in both cases - not at all.) that's not to say you are not allowed to be interested.

[thebish]

Some of the rejected gospels did state Christ was married.

oh? really??

I believe there is even one with the title "the Gospel of Mary wife of Jesus".

I don't.

[Lord Kangana]

C'mon bish, have a little faith.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Some of the rejected gospels did state Christ was married.

oh? really??

I believe there is even one with the title "the Gospel of Mary wife of Jesus".

I don't.

The one I was thinking of was the Gospel of Philip.

[thebish]

The one I was thinking of was the Gospel of Philip.

I don't believe that one states Jesus was married.

[TANGODANCER]

Despite being brought up a Catholic, and indeed being one all my life (though not the best example perhaps), there are somethings about religion I've never understood. Fanaticism is one of them. (as in the latest Muslim fandango. I bring it here because this is the religion thread). That's people, not religion. I'd never want to go to Jurusalem and re-enact the crucifiction by lugging a wooden cross around or walking a mile on my knees for example. Did Jesus tell anyone to do that? Going to the Holy City is something I'd like to do myself from respect. but those who think Heaven is attained by whipping yourself would be better saving the air fare and donating it to their local church. Not that every form of religion hasn't been involved in some extravagent lunacy through the ages of course, Christians not the least.

Churches, Cathedrals, Mosques, Synagogues and places of worship etc, should have respect from all. That said, prayer should be in them and in the privacy of homes. Festivals and processions are the obvious exceptions, but manipulation by power-hungry charlatans, politicians etc, using God to further their own ends never had a part in God's teachings. The biggest mental block seems to be the reluctance to accept that what happened two thousand years and beyond ago was meant to set the rules in the basics and that time moves on and the world with it. I'd urge anyone interested enough to read Jerusalem, the biography, by Simon Sebag Montefiorre. WtW lent it to me and it's a real eye-opener. What any of it is really to do with God is still very much a mystery. The whole, "My God is better than your God" thing is man's hypocracy, not religion at all.

[Gary the Enfield]

You wouldn't want to know if Jesus had a family? I'm not a particularly religious person (anymore) but I would be more than curious to see what the son of god's great great great great great (plus however many's) grandson would look like or be like. Wouldn't you? Perhaps he'd have some family heirlooms knocking about, the odd grail or somesuch.

in a word - no!

(as it happens I'm fairly sure he didn't have kids - but I'd not be that interested if he did... In the same way I am a Bob Dylan fan - but I'm not interested in his kids or grandkids and I don't know if he has any or if he does how many and what their names are... same with all the Bolton players - did Nat Lofthouse have kids, grand-kids? am I interested in seeing what they look like? nahhhh!)

Genuine question because I'm confused. I'm not that familiar with your particular denomination or it's doctrine but are you saying that Jesus is no more important in your life than Nat Lofthouse or Bob Dylan? And that you wouldn't want to know how he lived his life because it's not relevant? (Okay, 2 questions)

errr... no - I am saying that I am no more interested in Dylan's kids than I am in the question of whether Jesus had any. (ie - in both cases - not at all.) that's not to say you are not allowed to be interested.

Cheers.

[Montreal Wanderer]

The one I was thinking of was the Gospel of Philip.

I don't believe that one states Jesus was married.

I have since looked it up. You are correct that it does not use the word marriage in the translation I read. There are also doubtless with some words missing from the source to make translation harder. However, it implies a married relationship to some extent.

“There were three who always walked with the Lord: Mary his mother and her sister and Magdalene, the one who was called his companion”

“And the companion of the Savior is Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more than all the disciples and used to kiss her often on her mouth."

Personally I don't think the fact that gospels say neither that he was married or was not means anything. I gather he is revered in Judaism and Islam as a messiah and prophet and that this would make marriage probable. If rather he was the son of God he may have been above such things but that would include the type of relationship implied by the gospel of Philip.

[TANGODANCER]

Personally I don't think the fact that gospels say neither that he was married or was not means anything. I gather he is revered in Judaism and Islam as a messiah and prophet and that this would make marriage probable. If rather he was the son of God he may have been above such things but that would include the type of relationship implied by the gospel of Philip.

During his life Jesus suffered all the attributes and characteristics of a normal man. He showed love, generosity, anger, bewilderment, sorrow and, during the crucifiction, torture, great pain and suffering. He also, presumably had male feelings. The concept of the son of God adopting the body of a man during his life on earth and shedding it upon his death is how I've always seen Jesus. To appear to Mary Magdalen on his ressurection and ascension would be possible to the son of God for that very reason. Not everyone's view I agree. On the other hand, on knowing he was to die at thirty three, would he marry and leave a wife bereaved? There is no record as far as I'm aware of him asking anyone to look after his family after his death. Then there is the Essene code of chastity to consider. Theories abound and proof and denial have battled forever. Nobody actually knows.

[jaffka]

He was a top fella Jesus, did some good stuff.

Should have been a bit better a choosing his mates though, that what let him down.

[Prufrock]

Shakespeare hasn't got anything on Matthew Mark Luke, or John.

[William the White]

Shakespeare hasn't got anything on Matthew Mark Luke, or John.

Shakespeare is a lot more believable though.

[TANGODANCER]

Shakespeare hasn't got anything on Matthew Mark Luke, or John.

Shakespeare is a lot more believable though.

From the last will and testament of said bard:

"In the name of God, I William Shakespeare...God be praised, do make and ordain this, my last will and testament in manner and form following. That is to say, first I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator, hoping and assuredly believing, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my saviour, to be made partaker of eternal life, and my body to the earth whereof it is made."

[William the White]

Shakespeare hasn't got anything on Matthew Mark Luke, or John.

Shakespeare is a lot more believable though.

From the last will and testament of said bard:

"In the name of God, I William Shakespeare...God be praised, do make and ordain this, my last will and testament in manner and form following. That is to say, first I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator, hoping and assuredly believing, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my saviour, to be made partaker of eternal life, and my body to the earth whereof it is made."

Outstanding - Shakespeare is world renowned as a master of fiction...

[TANGODANCER]

Shakespeare hasn't got anything on Matthew Mark Luke, or John.

Shakespeare is a lot more believable though.

From the last will and testament of said bard:

"In the name of God, I William Shakespeare...God be praised, do make and ordain this, my last will and testament in manner and form following. That is to say, first I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator, hoping and assuredly believing, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my saviour, to be made partaker of eternal life, and my body to the earth whereof it is made."

Outstanding - Shakespeare is world renowned as a master of fiction...

Even the great Omar wasn't sure how it all ends Will:

"Up from Earth's centre, throught the seventh gate,
I rose, and on the throne of Saturn sate.
And many knots unravelled by the road;
But not the knot of human death and fate."

[William the White]

Shakespeare hasn't got anything on Matthew Mark Luke, or John.

Shakespeare is a lot more believable though.

From the last will and testament of said bard:

"In the name of God, I William Shakespeare...God be praised, do make and ordain this, my last will and testament in manner and form following. That is to say, first I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator, hoping and assuredly believing, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my saviour, to be made partaker of eternal life, and my body to the earth whereof it is made."

Outstanding - Shakespeare is world renowned as a master of fiction...

Even the great Omar wasn't sure how it all ends Will:

"Up from Earth's centre, throught the seventh gate,
I rose, and on the throne of Saturn sate.
And many knots unravelled by the road;
But not the knot of human death and fate."

Exactly... it's the doubt and puzzle that makes Khayyam great... It's the desire that lifts York Minster from the earth... the hope that raises the Mezquita in Cordoba... the desire for glory and eternity... all those searches for the transcendental that our knowledge of death leads us to imagine, and create, and, in a sense, to overcome...

Well done us... We can imagine so much... including our everlasting lives... however ludicrous...

And the long eternal calmness of oblivion, our absence, without thought, or pain, or desire... without being... Is that so hard to accept?

Well... Not hard for me... My children will mourn me... They will tell a few stories to their children... Then even the faintest memory is gone...

So... to respond with the great Khayyam...

Ah, make the most of what we may yet spend,
Before we too into the Dust descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie;
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and -- sans End!

[TANGODANCER]

Well done us... We can imagine so much... including our everlasting lives... however ludicrous...
And the long eternal calmness of oblivion, our absence, without thought, or pain, or desire... without being... Is that so hard to accept?
Well... Not hard for me... My children will mourn me... They will tell a few stories to their children... Then even the faintest memory is gone...
So... to respond with the great Khayyam...

Ah, make the most of what we may yet spend,
Before we too into the Dust descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie;
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and -- sans End!

Too late to reply, my bed calls. Till tomorrow then.

[Gary the Enfield]

Well done us... We can imagine so much... including our everlasting lives... however ludicrous...
And the long eternal calmness of oblivion, our absence, without thought, or pain, or desire... without being... Is that so hard to accept?
Well... Not hard for me... My children will mourn me... They will tell a few stories to their children... Then even the faintest memory is gone...
So... to respond with the great Khayyam...
Ah, make the most of what we may yet spend,
Before we too into the Dust descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie;
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and -- sans End!

Too late to reply, my bed calls. Till tomorrow then.

I believe he also said ''I liked it so much I bought the company''

[TANGODANCER]

Well done us... We can imagine so much... including our everlasting lives... however ludicrous...
And the long eternal calmness of oblivion, our absence, without thought, or pain, or desire... without being... Is that so hard to accept?
Well... Not hard for me... My children will mourn me... They will tell a few stories to their children... Then even the faintest memory is gone...
So... to respond with the great Khayyam...
Ah, make the most of what we may yet spend,
Before we too into the Dust descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie;
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and -- sans End!

Too late to reply, my bed calls. Till tomorrow then.

I believe he also said ''I liked it so much I bought the company''

Listen young shaver....