If Coyle gets the sack

[a1]

pep4bolton !!

[Loyal White]

I don't like the prospect of appointing a stop-gap manager, who ever we're looking at should be with the intention of having them long term.

As a result, the main criteria I'd be looking at is people with a track record of success with a budget. This would automatically rule out the likes of Di Canio and Poyet who have been able to spend their way out of divisions.

Hill and Jackett are on the right lines, unfortunately I don't know enough about lower league football to suggest alternatives.

[Hoboh]

I don't like the prospect of appointing a stop-gap manager, who ever we're looking at should be with the intention of having them long term.

As a result, the main criteria I'd be looking at is people with a track record of success with a budget. This would automatically rule out the likes of Di Canio and Poyet who have been able to spend their way out of divisions.

Hill and Jackett are on the right lines, unfortunately I don't know enough about lower league football to suggest alternatives.

That full metal?

[Prufrock]

Depends what you mean by success within a budget? Coz they don't need that this year. There's no way our budget was in the bottom three last either!

[Hoboh]

The tools are all in place it needs a craftsman and his team to make it work. Forget budget this and budget that we need to organize and make the thing work, next season if we get up its survive and build from there on.
feck me it looks like some of you are already resigned to being down here a few seasons, sod that!

[a1]

megson'd get us back up.

give him a 2yearer . do ok. then feck him off and take the piss out of him on twitter while getting brainwashed by an idiot with miles more leeway than Sammy Lee was ever afforded.

johnmcginlay out 2016 !!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Keith Hill has a reputation as a ball-playing manager, whose side very rarely wins away from home. A bit like the last guy, then.

But he's never managed a team that has spent infinitely more than practically every club in the same division. That may suggest the leaky away form (ie; not being able to afford players capable of consistent performances.)

That is true.

Might the same not be said of Coyle when at Burnley?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I think there is a worrying trend these days for employing a name for manager rather than experience. By this I mean fairly well known/good players. People talk about Neville as making a good manager, but there is no evidence to back this up. For a Championship or Premiership side that is a huge risk, playing with many millions of pounds. Taking a look at recently successful managers:

Fergie
East Stirlingshire - part time manager 5 months
St Mirren - manager 4 years
Aberdeen - manager 8 years

Wenger
AS Cannes - asst manager 1 year
Nancy - manager 3 years
Monaco - manager 6 years
Nagoya - manager 1 year

Mourinho
Vitória de Setúbal - youth team coach 1 year?
Sporting - translator for Bobby Robson 1 year
FC Porto - as Sporting 2 years
Barcelona - assistant manager after 1st year (4 year stay)
Benfica - manager 9 league games
Leiria - manager 1 year
Porto - manager 4 years

Guardiola
Barcelona B - coach/manager 1 year
Barcelona - manager

* just some examples

All of them have served some time at a lower level of some description, either assisting, coaching or managing. Mourinho is interesting, as whilst he didn't coach with Bobby Robson, it is known he was involved and Robson discussed ideas etc with him.

Many of the players of recent years that have attended a couple of courses and gone straight into managing at Championship and higher have either fallen on their arses or been average at best. There are few examples of them being a hit. The vast majority of good managers have served an apprenticeship of sorts, either assisting or managing at a lower level. They have been able to make mistakes and learn away from the big time charlies and the pressure of the tv cameras.

It is unlikely we're going to find the next Mourinho, but we either try for manager with a few seasons of relative success at a lower level and plays pragmatic but not dire football, or go for Joe Average and bobble along with a bit of excitement here and there. Joe Average might be Warnock or McCarthy et al. The lower level guy might be Keith Hill or someone else; I'm not up on lower league footie. A newbie big time player turned manager is 90% likely to end up in disaster or at best bobbling around where we are now IMO.

[Sponge]

How many millions will it cost to sack off the current shambles and bring in a whole new back-room staff? Does that happen automatically when a new a manager is signed?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

How many millions will it cost to sack off the current shambles and bring in a whole new back-room staff? Does that happen automatically when a new a manager is signed?

Mostly the new manager will want his own people. Lets face it, who would want to keep the shower of useless shite we've currently got.

[Loyal White]

Depends what you mean by success within a budget? Coz they don't need that this year. There's no way our budget was in the bottom three last either!

There has been a lot of comment about reducing our wage bill. This hasn't all come from Coyle and is likely that the next manager will have to continue with this trend.

If we don't get up this year I seriously doubt that we'll have the money to 'buy' our way out of the league next year, especially with the FFP regulations coming in and average attendances of 15/16k.

The cost of sacking Coyle & back-room staff will leave little for squad improvement in January, when any new manager will want to bring his own players in.

Then obviously the issues if we do manage to get up which I'm sure I don't need to explain.

I've read an article which i'll try and find later which states that, generally, managers add very little to the team. Clubs tend to finish around the same position as their wage bill, good/bad managers should be judged on whether they finish higher/lower compared to this. I don't disagree with this as one tool to use when evaluating a manager.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Did someone really mention Kenny fckin Jackett?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Did someone really mention Kenny fckin Jackett?

I heard it mentioned. I did.

[Jez]

Gary neville isnt just a pundit btw, he has been coaching for england

[Chrisfu]

I've just had a (perhaps horrible) realisation. We hired Sammy Lee back in February. Could it be that Gartside has brought him closer to give him another crack at the whip on a rolling contract, should Coyle be shown the door? We're skint, so it certainly would be a cheaper option.

I don't know how I'd feel about it if it happened. I'd get behind him if he were put in the managers seat, and perhaps he'd do better managing in the Championship and may have learnt from previous mistakes, but I can still remember those post-match interviews. Saying that, I think Coyle's post-match interviews are no less cringe-worthy. Like Coyle, I do like Sammy Lee as a bloke and a coach, but I'm just not sure that it wouldn't end up the same as last time.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

If Coyle goes, his coaches will too - jump or push. Shouldn't cost too much as they won't be on much. Certainly far far less than we're paying a thirtysomething Bulgarian for an hour's football per month.

AT: Yeah, I nearly drew a comparison with Coyle at Burnley but I don't think their financial structure was as comparatively high-end as ours is now.

As for Neville, I'm not particularly in favour of appointing him (although I'd be intrigued to invite him to interview), but I wouldn't worry about him being unable to appoint coaches. There'll be plenty wanting to hitch themselves to his wagon, just in case his star rises; as a bonus, he'd get a very experienced assistant, so we wouldn't have the current tramline mentality; and having a few years under your belt doesn't always lead to an aces backroom staff - does it, Owen?

[BWFC_Insane]

If Coyle goes, his coaches will too - jump or push. Shouldn't cost too much as they won't be on much. Certainly far far less than we're paying a thirtysomething Bulgarian for an hour's football per month.

AT: Yeah, I nearly drew a comparison with Coyle at Burnley but I don't think their financial structure was as comparatively high-end as ours is now.

As for Neville, I'm not particularly in favour of appointing him (although I'd be intrigued to invite him to interview), but I wouldn't worry about him being unable to appoint coaches. There'll be plenty wanting to hitch themselves to his wagon, just in case his star rises; as a bonus, he'd get a very experienced assistant, so we wouldn't have the current tramline mentality; and having a few years under your belt doesn't always lead to an aces backroom staff - does it, Owen?

Should we not be looking to put an infrastructure in place that means that when a manager leaves, he doesn't rip apart the majority of the club?

Gartside talked about doing this after Allardyce, I don't think it went so well, with Lee's men departing with him soon after.

Megson brought his own people in, but IIRC they were not on the whole people he'd worked with before. Perhaps that was an attempt.......

Its easier said than done, but we can't keep having to sack and replace an entire backroom. I realise managers want to bring their "own" but perhaps its time to start limiting what we allow?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I see your point but if you limit what you allow, you limit who you hire.

As Bobo will confirm I think you can sign agreements limiting the amount of staff you take with you but as you readily acknowledge, many a different (type of) manager will take his men with him - and incomers will want change.

In the scheme of things it doesn't cost much - unless you've got BSA taking two dozen* staff and you want to replace them all. Even then, it's nothing compared to what we paid for Ngog and Sordell.

As a side note of levity, I wonder why Megson needs to keep finding new people?

*A guess.

[BWFC_Insane]

I see your point but if you limit what you allow, you limit who you hire.

As Bobo will confirm I think you can sign agreements limiting the amount of staff you take with you but as you readily acknowledge, many a different (type of) manager will take his men with him - and incomers will want change.

In the scheme of things it doesn't cost much - unless you've got BSA taking two dozen* staff and you want to replace them all. Even then, it's nothing compared to what we paid for Ngog and Sordell.

As a side note of levity, I wonder why Megson needs to keep finding new people?

*A guess.

This is an interesting discussion. I'd argue that Allardyce built his backroom here over time by bringing in "experts" in their field.

Megson went for a developmental coach in Evans to try and help develop some of our younger talent, supposedly.....

Coyle lifted and shifted a whole team with him.

The problem for me is that the team Coyle brought, was not handpicked to be the "best he could find" but people he'd happened to have worked with along the way.

Which leaves us with Fred Barber (a roaring success) being pushed out, for what Jussi believed to be an "inferior" coach.

I don't want to limit the manager we can get. But equally I want us to have the BEST coaches and experts behind the scenes, rather than ones that just happen to know "whoever the next bloke is".

I realise there is a fine balance there. But never again should we discard someone proven like Barber cos the manager wants to bring in someone they've worked with before....

[ohjimmyjimmy]

I see your point but if you limit what you allow, you limit who you hire.

As Bobo will confirm I think you can sign agreements limiting the amount of staff you take with you but as you readily acknowledge, many a different (type of) manager will take his men with him - and incomers will want change.

In the scheme of things it doesn't cost much - unless you've got BSA taking two dozen* staff and you want to replace them all. Even then, it's nothing compared to what we paid for Ngog and Sordell.

As a side note of levity, I wonder why Megson needs to keep finding new people?

*A guess.

This is an interesting discussion. I'd argue that Allardyce built his backroom here over time by bringing in "experts" in their field.

Megson went for a developmental coach in Evans to try and help develop some of our younger talent, supposedly.....

Coyle lifted and shifted a whole team with him.

The problem for me is that the team Coyle brought, was not handpicked to be the "best he could find" but people he'd happened to have worked with along the way.

Which leaves us with Fred Barber (a roaring success) being pushed out, for what Jussi believed to be an "inferior" coach.

I don't want to limit the manager we can get. But equally I want us to have the BEST coaches and experts behind the scenes, rather than ones that just happen to know "whoever the next bloke is".

I realise there is a fine balance there. But never again should we discard someone proven like Barber cos the manager wants to bring in someone they've worked with before....

True in all (work) walks of life is that. Rarely does it benefit to clear out everyone with experience and intimate knowledge of a place / people / customers. Any management team who does that is just plain arrogant & clueless.