Now he's gone, who's next?

[BWFC_Insane]

That's my contention, Yes. That one man being the manager. A man very much capable of turning gold into lead. Grim 'Reaper' Souness: the touch of death personified.

Ok but by that same argument he was solely responsible for "fixing" Blackburn, promoting them, keeping them there, winning a cup, then passing onto Mark Hughes to take them into the top ten.

All thanks to Souey. Will do for me then....

[thebish]

So your contention is that solely down to Souness Liverpool went shite?

Nowt to do with the fact that all their better players were getting on a bit?

Or that the football world had changed? It was solely because of one man?

it would certainly fit your usual argument that the manager is responsible for everything that happens - or is that just Coyle?

[Ianmooreslovechild]

I wouldn't object to Souness TBH, if he wants to get back into management big time a few succesful years with us would do him nor us any harm at all plus it would keep Mad Mick away from the Reebok!
For now I'm backing the backroom boys to prove once and for all to the blind what a tosser Coyle really was.

I did wonder hoboh how you came to McCarthy=mad but Souness =sane.
The one hope I would cling to should Souness end up here is as mentioned above when he had a similar situation to bolton he did well although in the end his attitude seems to have alienated key players and his signings were unsuccessful. It's telling that the same players picked up no end when he had goneHe seems to do more harm when he has money to play with and maybe he has learnt from his mistakes.Still really rather not though,would be replacing a soft arrogant dreamer with a hard arrogant fool. I get the impression Souness is of the Megson school of PR so should he get in and things not go so well I think it could quickly descend into something quite unpleasant.

re Souness at Liverpool,it was a difficult situation vaguely similar to when allardyce left here. A team on the wane after prolonged success which dalgliesh hadnt really set about rebuilding. Souness arrogantly tried to rip everything up all at once and didnt make good signings so it went wrong and they havent been the same since. A more even handed manager would have kept the good and managed the transition less radically and potentially kept the team in a better position gradually moving younger players into an effective structure much like all those from shankley to Dalgleish had done.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

That's my contention, Yes. That one man being the manager. A man very much capable of turning gold into lead. Grim 'Reaper' Souness: the touch of death personified.

Ok but by that same argument he was solely responsible for "fixing" Blackburn, promoting them, keeping them there, winning a cup, then passing onto Mark Hughes to take them into the top ten.

All thanks to Souey. Will do for me then....

No, no no no. The analogy don't work like that. One broken part can shag the engine, but just one part isn't responsible for the engine running smoothly - all the parts must work together in harmony. He was just a tiny cog in the smooth running Blackburn engine of the time: a short-lived smooth running engine that was overtuned and in danger of crashing into the tyrewalls.

[BWFC_Insane]

So your contention is that solely down to Souness Liverpool went shite?

Nowt to do with the fact that all their better players were getting on a bit?

Or that the football world had changed? It was solely because of one man?

it would certainly fit your usual argument that the manager is responsible for everything that happens - or is that just Coyle?

I think there is a subtle difference. In that I wouldn't blame Coyle for our decline after he has gone. He was responsible whilst he was here as Souness was at Liverpool.

But I don't think the fact they've not won a premiership trophy in 20 years can be pinned entirely at Souness' door.

A manager has to take the ultimate responsibility if results are not up to scratch whilst they are there, yes. Further than that they still of course leave a legacy but I think to blame Liverpools decline over the past two decades on one man is a little far fetched.

Otherwise you can say that Boltons decline since Allardyce was entirely Sammy Lee's fault, cos he was the next man in when it all started to go South. I don't think that argument would make any sense......

[norm the jedi]

So...

Souness was the last in a line of managers, starting with Bill Shankly, in the Boot Room tradition.

which suggests he was the last in that tradition.. He wasn't
This Is the same as

Souness coming at the end of a line of managers in the boot room tradition, which he then dismantled.

Which to me means coming after that line which was my original point... First of the 'from outside' appointments... Which is factually accurate.

I think that's what I said.

er? it's not, see above

I think I'm sticking with it.

No you aren't you've changed it...

I think it's factual.

Which one

[ohjimmyjimmy]

From the B(E)N today:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ng/?ref=mr

Mick: The job's mine for the taking

5:50am Thursday 18th October 2012 in Sport By Marc Iles

MICK McCarthy claims the vacant job at Wanderers is his if he wants it.

The former Republic of Ireland chief has told associates in the Midlands that he was offered the chance to succeed Owen Coyle after a two-and-a-half hour meeting in Bolton last Friday afternoon.

His bold claim continues to be vehemently denied by sources at the Reebok, who had insisted just days after Coyle was sacked that the 53-year-old was not in the running.

But those close to McCarthy reckon discussions have been so far-reaching that the topic of accommodation had even been covered for him and long-term assistant Terry Connor.


To further complicate matters, McCarthy’s allies have also revealed he is on the wanted list at Wanderers’ Lancashire rivals Burnley and Blackburn Rovers, who are also on the hunt for a new boss.

They claim the chance to inherit a strong, but under-achieving squad from Coyle would be the former Millwall and Wolves manager’s favoured choice but that he does have reservations over some of the terms apparently offered to him.

McCarthy wants to bring in Connor, who served for four years at Molineux as his number two. If that were to happen, there would be no natural post for Sammy Lee – who, it is understood, will be a permanent feature on the training ground for any new appointment.


Jimmy Phillips and Julian Darby are also likely to be kept on by the club after stepping into the breach over the last week to prepare the side.

It is also rumoured that Yorkshireman McCarthy is not keen on a short-term contract, which would be accompanied with a big financial bonus should Wanderers succeed in their aim of gaining promotion this season.

Those claims continue to be stonewalled by those inside the Reebok - but a report yesterday put the silence down to an agreement that discussions would be kept under wraps until after the Whites travel to Molineux on Tuesday evening to avoid placing any unnecessary pressure from the media on the game.

From the moment talk of a shortlist surfaced, noises from within the Wanderers set-up hinted that a younger, fresher manager would be sought, with Ole Gunnar Solksjaer a top target.

Since the Norwegian went public last week with comments that he would remain with his club Molde at least for another month, other avenues have been explored - with informal discussions taking place with a handful of other candidates, including Portsmouth boss Michael Appleton and Crystal Palace’s Dougie Freedman.

News from McCarthy’s camp would suggest that shorter-term measures are being investigated and another experienced campaigner, Graeme Souness was also put into the frame by one report yesterday - but that link has also been met with a lukewarm reaction from inside the club.

The former Liverpool and Blackburn Rovers boss has not been in football for six years, and has worked as a leading pundit for Sky TV.

But although the Scottish manager, now 59, topped a straw poll run by The Bolton News yesterday with 31 per cent of the vote from McCarthy (28), Phillips (18), Freedman (17) and Appleton (7), his appointment would be considered a surprising one.

Souness has worked alongside Lee before, at Liverpool, and also made Phillips - who will take charge of the team against Bristol City on Saturday - his second signing after taking charge of Glasgow Rangers in the late eighties.

[Lord Kangana]

Yay. Souness or McCarthy.

Anyone who doesn't believe in god should start now. Because he clearly exists, and he clearly doesn't like us for some reason.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Yay. Souness or McCarthy.

Anyone who doesn't believe in god should start now. Because he clearly exists, and he clearly doesn't like us for some reason.

Amen to that.

[truewhite15]

From the B(E)N today:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ng/?ref=mr

Mick: The job's mine for the taking

5:50am Thursday 18th October 2012 in Sport By Marc Iles

MICK McCarthy claims the vacant job at Wanderers is his if he wants it.

The former Republic of Ireland chief has told associates in the Midlands that he was offered the chance to succeed Owen Coyle after a two-and-a-half hour meeting in Bolton last Friday afternoon.

His bold claim continues to be vehemently denied by sources at the Reebok, who had insisted just days after Coyle was sacked that the 53-year-old was not in the running.

But those close to McCarthy reckon discussions have been so far-reaching that the topic of accommodation had even been covered for him and long-term assistant Terry Connor.


To further complicate matters, McCarthy’s allies have also revealed he is on the wanted list at Wanderers’ Lancashire rivals Burnley and Blackburn Rovers, who are also on the hunt for a new boss.

They claim the chance to inherit a strong, but under-achieving squad from Coyle would be the former Millwall and Wolves manager’s favoured choice but that he does have reservations over some of the terms apparently offered to him.

McCarthy wants to bring in Connor, who served for four years at Molineux as his number two. If that were to happen, there would be no natural post for Sammy Lee – who, it is understood, will be a permanent feature on the training ground for any new appointment.


Jimmy Phillips and Julian Darby are also likely to be kept on by the club after stepping into the breach over the last week to prepare the side.

It is also rumoured that Yorkshireman McCarthy is not keen on a short-term contract, which would be accompanied with a big financial bonus should Wanderers succeed in their aim of gaining promotion this season.

Those claims continue to be stonewalled by those inside the Reebok - but a report yesterday put the silence down to an agreement that discussions would be kept under wraps until after the Whites travel to Molineux on Tuesday evening to avoid placing any unnecessary pressure from the media on the game.

From the moment talk of a shortlist surfaced, noises from within the Wanderers set-up hinted that a younger, fresher manager would be sought, with Ole Gunnar Solksjaer a top target.

Since the Norwegian went public last week with comments that he would remain with his club Molde at least for another month, other avenues have been explored - with informal discussions taking place with a handful of other candidates, including Portsmouth boss Michael Appleton and Crystal Palace’s Dougie Freedman.

News from McCarthy’s camp would suggest that shorter-term measures are being investigated and another experienced campaigner, Graeme Souness was also put into the frame by one report yesterday - but that link has also been met with a lukewarm reaction from inside the club.

The former Liverpool and Blackburn Rovers boss has not been in football for six years, and has worked as a leading pundit for Sky TV.

But although the Scottish manager, now 59, topped a straw poll run by The Bolton News yesterday with 31 per cent of the vote from McCarthy (28), Phillips (18), Freedman (17) and Appleton (7), his appointment would be considered a surprising one.

Souness has worked alongside Lee before, at Liverpool, and also made Phillips - who will take charge of the team against Bristol City on Saturday - his second signing after taking charge of Glasgow Rangers in the late eighties.

That's a prime example of an sensationalist article built on absolutely nothing. No quotes, no facts. An awful lot of supposing and reckoning.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So...

Souness was the last in a line of managers, starting with Bill Shankly, in the Boot Room tradition.

which suggests he was the last in that tradition.. He wasn't
This Is the same as

Souness coming at the end of a line of managers in the boot room tradition, which he then dismantled.

Which to me means coming after that line which was my original point... First of the 'from outside' appointments... Which is factually accurate.

I think that's what I said.

er? it's not, see above

I think I'm sticking with it.

No you aren't you've changed it...

I think it's factual.

Which one

Ahhh! I see. Sorry, I put an errant comma in there; you need to remove the comma from after Bill Shankly. I'm agreeing with your point of view in that Souness came after the boot room dynasty. Maybe I should (thinking back on it, hindsight is wonderful) have said the first manager after a line of managers - but it's an ugly sentence construction and doesn't emphasise enough the fact that he destroyed the tradition which he came at the end of. He also actually, literally broke up the boot room, not just ending the tradition... I don't mean ending it by being part of but ending it as he came after it.
(I understand what I mean. Do you think maybe that you understand what I mean? and do we agree that that is what we both understand?)

[Lord Kangana]

"I know you know I know".

"I know".

[Lost Leopard Spot]

"I know you know I know".

"I know".

At last, a breakthrough. Next year the Nobel Peace Prize is ours.

[thebish]

From the B(E)N today:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ng/?ref=mr

Mick: The job's mine for the taking

hmmm....

Those claims continue to be stonewalled by those inside the Reebok - but a report yesterday put the silence down to an agreement that discussions would be kept under wraps until after the Whites travel to Molineux on Tuesday evening to avoid placing any unnecessary pressure from the media on the game.

if there was an agreement that discussions would be kept under wraps until after the Whites travel to Molineux on Tuesday evening - then why would McCarthy be blabbing to to all who will listen??

if there is any truth in this - and if there was such an agreement - then him blabbing is surely an obvious reason to tell him to sling his hook and look elsewhere.

[BWFC_Insane]

From the B(E)N today:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ng/?ref=mr

Mick: The job's mine for the taking

hmmm....

Those claims continue to be stonewalled by those inside the Reebok - but a report yesterday put the silence down to an agreement that discussions would be kept under wraps until after the Whites travel to Molineux on Tuesday evening to avoid placing any unnecessary pressure from the media on the game.

if there was an agreement that discussions would be kept under wraps until after the Whites travel to Molineux on Tuesday evening - then why would McCarthy be blabbing to to all who will listen??

if there is any truth in this - and if there was such an agreement - then him blabbing is surely an obvious reason to tell him to sling his hook and look elsewhere.

Its clearly bollocks. If he'd been offered the job I suspect he'd have had to have said yes or no by now, and certainly as you say not blabbing it all over the media.

[Ianmooreslovechild]

From the B(E)N today:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ng/?ref=mr

Mick: The job's mine for the taking

5:50am Thursday 18th October 2012 in Sport By Marc Iles

MICK McCarthy claims the vacant job at Wanderers is his if he wants it.

The former Republic of Ireland chief has told associates in the Midlands that he was offered the chance to succeed Owen Coyle after a two-and-a-half hour meeting in Bolton last Friday afternoon.

His bold claim continues to be vehemently denied by sources at the Reebok, who had insisted just days after Coyle was sacked that the 53-year-old was not in the running.

But those close to McCarthy reckon discussions have been so far-reaching that the topic of accommodation had even been covered for him and long-term assistant Terry Connor.


To further complicate matters, McCarthy’s allies have also revealed he is on the wanted list at Wanderers’ Lancashire rivals Burnley and Blackburn Rovers, who are also on the hunt for a new boss.

They claim the chance to inherit a strong, but under-achieving squad from Coyle would be the former Millwall and Wolves manager’s favoured choice but that he does have reservations over some of the terms apparently offered to him.

McCarthy wants to bring in Connor, who served for four years at Molineux as his number two. If that were to happen, there would be no natural post for Sammy Lee – who, it is understood, will be a permanent feature on the training ground for any new appointment.


Jimmy Phillips and Julian Darby are also likely to be kept on by the club after stepping into the breach over the last week to prepare the side.

It is also rumoured that Yorkshireman McCarthy is not keen on a short-term contract, which would be accompanied with a big financial bonus should Wanderers succeed in their aim of gaining promotion this season.

Those claims continue to be stonewalled by those inside the Reebok - but a report yesterday put the silence down to an agreement that discussions would be kept under wraps until after the Whites travel to Molineux on Tuesday evening to avoid placing any unnecessary pressure from the media on the game.

From the moment talk of a shortlist surfaced, noises from within the Wanderers set-up hinted that a younger, fresher manager would be sought, with Ole Gunnar Solksjaer a top target.

Since the Norwegian went public last week with comments that he would remain with his club Molde at least for another month, other avenues have been explored - with informal discussions taking place with a handful of other candidates, including Portsmouth boss Michael Appleton and Crystal Palace’s Dougie Freedman.

News from McCarthy’s camp would suggest that shorter-term measures are being investigated and another experienced campaigner, Graeme Souness was also put into the frame by one report yesterday - but that link has also been met with a lukewarm reaction from inside the club.

The former Liverpool and Blackburn Rovers boss has not been in football for six years, and has worked as a leading pundit for Sky TV.

But although the Scottish manager, now 59, topped a straw poll run by The Bolton News yesterday with 31 per cent of the vote from McCarthy (28), Phillips (18), Freedman (17) and Appleton (7), his appointment would be considered a surprising one.

Souness has worked alongside Lee before, at Liverpool, and also made Phillips - who will take charge of the team against Bristol City on Saturday - his second signing after taking charge of Glasgow Rangers in the late eighties.

No quotes as mentioned above but does the BEN need to be making things up? My guess is there must be some smoke here.

Hardly a good start though if they asked McCarthy to keep his gob shut. I like the idea that they are offering something short term and bonus based but it's then down to whether Mccarthy backs himself enough to take it. Trapper Tony isnt moving on so that door just shut and Blackburn seem to be looking elsewhere so it may be a question of us with the deal offered or a more secure but potentially less lucrative deal at Burnley.The issue of lee/connor is going to be a problem though.

I still think Freedman is a better long term option. He may be happy to work with Lee and I would hope he bring lennie lawrence along as a senior advisor.

That poll vote at the BEN is nuts. You can only assume a lot of half interested folk who follow x factor jumped in and voted for whoever s names they knew best.

Insisting a new manager works with Lee as coach is very problematic. It may be a reaction to the "team" coyle brought in. I cant see how it will work though unless Lee is involved in the selection process, hence perhaps souness but please no!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And we don't really want to start hunting communists again, do we?

[Ianmooreslovechild]

From the B(E)N today:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ng/?ref=mr

Mick: The job's mine for the taking

hmmm....

Those claims continue to be stonewalled by those inside the Reebok - but a report yesterday put the silence down to an agreement that discussions would be kept under wraps until after the Whites travel to Molineux on Tuesday evening to avoid placing any unnecessary pressure from the media on the game.

if there was an agreement that discussions would be kept under wraps until after the Whites travel to Molineux on Tuesday evening - then why would McCarthy be blabbing to to all who will listen??

if there is any truth in this - and if there was such an agreement - then him blabbing is surely an obvious reason to tell him to sling his hook and look elsewhere.

Its clearly bollocks. If he'd been offered the job I suspect he'd have had to have said yes or no by now, and certainly as you say not blabbing it all over the media.

Not necessarily. If he's offered the job but doesnt like the terms then a little blabbing and self publicizing may possibly apply pressure on those offering the deal to adapt or if not it states clearly to other clubs and their followers that Mccarthy is available and wanted.Could be bollocks but may well not be.

[BWFC_Insane]

Freedman would be expensive and a gamble. Fair play to Eddie if he goes down that route, but I can see Freedman staying loyal to Palace and at the very best, Palace insisting on big compensation.

Expensive, messy and potentially not a big attraction for Freedman.

Be surprised if thats the route we take, but then again, surprised with most things that happen at BWFC nowadays....

[Lord Kangana]

I'm getting October 2007 all over again.