Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[Enoch]

All I can do is amuse myself and enjoy the ride.

keeping the other hand free for typing??

Harsh but fair, though I tend to use different websites for that.

[Prufrock]

Two things he won't be doing are sitting on his hands, or turning water into wine!

How about trying to force round pegs into square holes? Will he be persisting with that particular strategy?

Two simple questions:

You defended strongly Owen Coyle, who played square peg Mark Davies in the roung peg position of the right side of a midfield four repeatedly. Correct?
You have criticised Dougie Freedman for playing square peg David N'Gog in the round peg position of wide in the front 3 of a 4-3-3 once. Correct?

You of all people Pru, should know that this is actually a decent tactic to use when you have overlapping full-backs. Steinsson wasn't being used (which he should've been), instead it was Mears who was too defensively minded.

So in effectm it was good on paper, but we didn't quite get it right.. But as you point out, he did this more than once.

As you say though, he was playing there in front of a full-back who didn't get forward enough. So one of Mears or Davies was the square peg in the round hole. Either the central midfielder was being played in a position where he needed to be a winger, which he isn't, or, Mears was playing a role where he needed to be a full-back who bombs on down the outside, which he isn't. And he did it time and time again.

BL3 defended Coyle.

Freedman has played a centre-forward out wide a tactic which worked well for us with Anelka and Davies, and worked at Chelsea where Anelka scored shedloads starting from wider. It clearly didn't work and didn't suit N'Gog, but I don't think the idea itself was that bad.

BL3 has criticised Freedman. Despite claiming all he wants is consistency.

I criticised Coyle for Mavies on the wing because he kept doing it and it kept not working. If we see N'Gog wide again I might start to get worried. If we see it over and over again when it still obviously isn't working, I'll get very worried.

[boltonboris]

Agreed.. I was just trying to state that I could see both points of view..

[Prufrock]

Fence sitter!

[boltonboris]

I'm picking splinters out of me arse

[thebish]

If (as BL3 does) you sincerely and totally believe that the club have told Freedman that his main target - the one by which his job stands or falls - is promotion THIS season..

then it makes perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace.

If (as others do) you suspect that what the club has told Freedman is a bit more nuanced - "promotion would be great - go for it - BUT it's not what your success/failure will ultimately be judged on")

then it is perfectly reasonable to have wished that we had beaten Barnsley and to be a bit miffed that we didn't - but still to be sanguine about the whole affair and be prepared to see a 4-game unbeaten run as an improvement on what we had before - and look forward to slow, steady positive change that might take more than this season - and MIGHT stand us in better stead for the longer period of building...

[89bwfc89]

If (as BL3 does) you sincerely and totally believe that the club have told Freedman that his main target - the one by which his job stands or falls - is promotion THIS season..

then it makes perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace.

If (as others do) you suspect that what the club has told Freedman is a bit more nuanced - "promotion would be great - go for it - BUT it's not what your success/failure will ultimately be judged on")

then it is perfectly reasonable to have wished that we had beaten Barnsley and to be a bit miffed that we didn't - but still to be sanguine about the whole affair and be prepared to see a 4-game unbeaten run as an improvement on what we had before - and look forward to slow, steady positive change that might take more than this season - and MIGHT stand us in better stead for the longer period of building...

Very sensible post. I'm in the option 2 camp.

[BWFC_Insane]

If (as BL3 does) you sincerely and totally believe that the club have told Freedman that his main target - the one by which his job stands or falls - is promotion THIS season..

then it makes perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace.

If (as others do) you suspect that what the club has told Freedman is a bit more nuanced - "promotion would be great - go for it - BUT it's not what your success/failure will ultimately be judged on")

then it is perfectly reasonable to have wished that we had beaten Barnsley and to be a bit miffed that we didn't - but still to be sanguine about the whole affair and be prepared to see a 4-game unbeaten run as an improvement on what we had before - and look forward to slow, steady positive change that might take more than this season - and MIGHT stand us in better stead for the longer period of building...

I think the clubs target is promotion.

I don't believe Freedman's job relies on that for one minute though.

They could have gone and found a more proven manager with a track record for promotion, probably cheaper than getting Freedman from Palace if thats what they wanted.

But I think as with everything they've got a short term and long term plan.

And I think they saw Freedman as fitting into the long term plan whilst also being capable in the short term.

If we're no better by the end of the season I might change my mind but as of now, if we miss out on promotion I'll be patient with Dougie.

[Prufrock]

If (as BL3 does) you sincerely and totally believe that the club have told Freedman that his main target - the one by which his job stands or falls - is promotion THIS season..

then it makes perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace.

If (as others do) you suspect that what the club has told Freedman is a bit more nuanced - "promotion would be great - go for it - BUT it's not what your success/failure will ultimately be judged on")

then it is perfectly reasonable to have wished that we had beaten Barnsley and to be a bit miffed that we didn't - but still to be sanguine about the whole affair and be prepared to see a 4-game unbeaten run as an improvement on what we had before - and look forward to slow, steady positive change that might take more than this season - and MIGHT stand us in better stead for the longer period of building...

No it doesn't. The 'pace' for getting into the play-offs is usually between 70-75 points over a season. That ppg for 75 points over four games is 6.5. So we are half a point off. Of course we need more than that ppg now, and the past four games have been a long, long way from perfect, but I certainly don't think it makes 'perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace'. It's been a solid, unspectacular start. No more, and I don't think any less.

[Enoch]

When Freedman took over at Crystal Palace on New Years Day 2011, they were rooted to the bottom of the Championship. Under Burley they were a rabble, Freedman, working with much the same group of players, dragged them out of the mire to comfortable survival.

Without making a fuss and with some astute work churning the squad, he left them 20 months later a well drilled, effective unit. I won't trouble mentioning their current league position.

As much as we all have an opinion, sometimes seeing things so obvious only a fool would miss them. In truth none of us armchair experts have a clue what's happening within the confines of the first team squad. Expecting things to change in the blink of an eye is pretty naive I fancy. I also believe Freedman brings a regime that will not suffer those that refuse to accept his standards and will weed out the luggage as early as is prudent.

Will it be playoffs this season? Entirely possible, but certainly not a given. Will the playing side of the club be better at the end of the season than it was at the beginning? Without a shadow of a doubt!

Anyone that isn't behind the Manager and his endeavor at this early stage will only make his task a little more demanding.

And that was my first post!

Whatever else Davies and Gartside may or may not be, I doubt they're unaware of what Feeedman achieved at Crystal Palace. As he didn't change them overnight from a rabble, to a title winning side, one might think they are ready for that possibility here.

[plymouth wanderer]

If (as BL3 does) you sincerely and totally believe that the club have told Freedman that his main target - the one by which his job stands or falls - is promotion THIS season..

then it makes perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace.

If (as others do) you suspect that what the club has told Freedman is a bit more nuanced - "promotion would be great - go for it - BUT it's not what your success/failure will ultimately be judged on")

then it is perfectly reasonable to have wished that we had beaten Barnsley and to be a bit miffed that we didn't - but still to be sanguine about the whole affair and be prepared to see a 4-game unbeaten run as an improvement on what we had before - and look forward to slow, steady positive change that might take more than this season - and MIGHT stand us in better stead for the longer period of building...

No it doesn't. The 'pace' for getting into the play-offs is usually between 70-75 points over a season. That ppg for 75 points over four games is 6.5. So we are half a point off. Of course we need more than that ppg now, and the past four games have been a long, long way from perfect, but I certainly don't think it makes 'perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace'. It's been a solid, unspectacular start. No more, and I don't think any less.

Spot on Pru

We've stopped the landslide now and now it's time to slowly climb again

We'll get there

[thebish]

If (as BL3 does) you sincerely and totally believe that the club have told Freedman that his main target - the one by which his job stands or falls - is promotion THIS season..

then it makes perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace.

If (as others do) you suspect that what the club has told Freedman is a bit more nuanced - "promotion would be great - go for it - BUT it's not what your success/failure will ultimately be judged on")

then it is perfectly reasonable to have wished that we had beaten Barnsley and to be a bit miffed that we didn't - but still to be sanguine about the whole affair and be prepared to see a 4-game unbeaten run as an improvement on what we had before - and look forward to slow, steady positive change that might take more than this season - and MIGHT stand us in better stead for the longer period of building...

No it doesn't. The 'pace' for getting into the play-offs is usually between 70-75 points over a season. That ppg for 75 points over four games is 6.5. So we are half a point off. Of course we need more than that ppg now, and the past four games have been a long, long way from perfect, but I certainly don't think it makes 'perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace'. It's been a solid, unspectacular start. No more, and I don't think any less.

but I didn't say "getting into the playoffs" - I said promotion! you have subtly misquoted me - you minx!

IF (as BL3 believes) - the target is promotion - then we need to be aiming for the top 2 - not just the playoffs.

(which is what BWFCi said at the start of the season - and that anything else would be a complete and unmitigated impossible-ever-to-recover from disaster!)

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Can I remind everybody that the world is due to end on 21st December: so nobody's getting into the playoffs.

[plymouth wanderer]

Can I remind everybody that the world is due to end on 21st December: so nobody's getting into the playoffs.

Funny enough we were talking about this today in work

Saving loads of money this chrimbo

[Prufrock]

If (as BL3 does) you sincerely and totally believe that the club have told Freedman that his main target - the one by which his job stands or falls - is promotion THIS season..

then it makes perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace.

If (as others do) you suspect that what the club has told Freedman is a bit more nuanced - "promotion would be great - go for it - BUT it's not what your success/failure will ultimately be judged on")

then it is perfectly reasonable to have wished that we had beaten Barnsley and to be a bit miffed that we didn't - but still to be sanguine about the whole affair and be prepared to see a 4-game unbeaten run as an improvement on what we had before - and look forward to slow, steady positive change that might take more than this season - and MIGHT stand us in better stead for the longer period of building...

No it doesn't. The 'pace' for getting into the play-offs is usually between 70-75 points over a season. That ppg for 75 points over four games is 6.5. So we are half a point off. Of course we need more than that ppg now, and the past four games have been a long, long way from perfect, but I certainly don't think it makes 'perfect and total sense to judge the last four games as simply not good enough and well off the pace'. It's been a solid, unspectacular start. No more, and I don't think any less.

but I didn't say "getting into the playoffs" - I said promotion! you have subtly misquoted me - you minx!

IF (as BL3 believes) - the target is promotion - then we need to be aiming for the top 2 - not just the playoffs.

(which is what BWFCi said at the start of the season - and that anything else would be a complete and unmitigated impossible-ever-to-recover from disaster!)

I haven't at all misquoted you. You go up just as much through the play-offs as you do top two.

I doubt even BL3 thinks Dougie's target for the season is the top two!

That would require the sort of form that over a season would be close to a Championship record points haul. No one brings in a new manager and 'expects' that.

[Whookam]

Freedman only really has a couple more games to show we are capable of reaching at least the play offs or we are i for a miserable season thanks to Gartsides inability to move fast when needed.
Coyle should have gone an hour after the Stoke game (most of us would have done it last Christmas latest) and its his failure to act swiftly that attention and our sights should turn on!

Therein lies one of the problems, most wouldn't have gotten rid of Coyle last Christmas. In fact even up until the last few games before he did go he was getting a lot of support. The 'It'll be reet brigade' cut him so much slack we dropped into 18th place of the Championship before they saw the danger when the warning signs had been there in bright neon for 12 months before hand.

[thebish]

I doubt even BL3 thinks Dougie's target for the season is the top two!

I suspect you are overestimating BL3 and giving him too much benefit of the doubt...

[BL3]

Perhaps you should just concentrate on posting your own opinions rather than getting mine wrong.

[boltonboris]

Hahahaha

[thebish]

Perhaps you should just concentrate on posting your own opinions rather than getting mine wrong.

you appear to have a quite definite and boldly stated opinion about what the club have told Freedman is to be the measure of his success...

is that wrong?

my opinion - as I have stated more than once - is that none of us knows what the club have actually said to Freedman about targets.