Peterborough away

[BWFC_Insane]

And Dougies is better than the manager you didn't want sacked.

Based on what? Avoiding relegation and beating United in the cup?

I don't dislike Freedman but this is a baseless assumption. Coyle has achieved far more than Freedman has.

I'm talking about PPG this season.....

[DJBlu]

And Dougies is better than the manager you didn't want sacked.

Based on what? Avoiding relegation and beating United in the cup?

I don't dislike Freedman but this is a baseless assumption. Coyle has achieved far more than Freedman has.

By getting us relegated and losing to Stoke in the cup?

You mean losing to Stoke after getting to our first F.A. Cup semi-final in 10 years? Or did you conveniently forget that bit?

It's all about perspective and interpretation.

Potato, Potato

[BL3]

And Dougies is better than the manager you didn't want sacked.

Based on what? Avoiding relegation and beating United in the cup?

I don't dislike Freedman but this is a baseless assumption. Coyle has achieved far more than Freedman has.

I'm talking about PPG this season.....

So on that basis Freedman's no better than Jimmy Phillips.

[DJBlu]

And Dougies is better than the manager you didn't want sacked.

Based on what? Avoiding relegation and beating United in the cup?

I don't dislike Freedman but this is a baseless assumption. Coyle has achieved far more than Freedman has.

I'm talking about PPG this season.....

So on that basis Freedman's no better than Jimmy Phillips.

I'd love to see you argue with my wife.

[Prufrock]

Points per game being the only thing that matters of course. We let Coyle have a good 18 months of hovering around and below the 1 PPG mark. Dougie deserves the same chance, although funnily enough he's doing better than the manager you didn't want sacked. Go figure....

PPG is not the only thing that matters. Final league position is the only thing that matters (plus any play-off results). PPG is clearly a very, very strong indicator of where any likely final league placing will be. Dougie's is demonstrably better than Coyle's but still not good enough. Of course, he has only had ten games and took over a club on a downward spiral. I'd say we've stopped getting worse, but we need to get much, much better. That won't happen overnight, if it happens at all!

Well yes but individually you can only really judge a manager on PPG as they can't do a lot about other teams relative performances.

As for the rest as you know, I fully agree!

I'm still not convinced it is that simple. PPG is a very good indicator, and as close to a one-stop numerical comparison as you can get, but I wouldn't say it's all you can judge a manager on. Freedman is going to be judged on whether he gets us promoted, either this season, or next. If he doesn't manage that, I think you'd have to say he has failed. If his ppg is such that ordinarily we'd get promoted, but it doesn't happen, I don't think many will be saying 'let's keep him, his ppg is excellent'.

The reason I'll look back and think Coyle was shit won't be his ppg (although it's a good indicator that he had been shit, was still shit, and likely would continue to be shit); it will be the piss poor team selections, wonky tactics, bizarre transfer decisions and ultimately the throwing away of our premier league status, and complete inability to look remotely like regaining it. I'll remember him for his ability to turn gold (birmingham) into piss (everything since), without ever looking like knowing how to turn it around.

So, yeah, hopefully this one will turn out better, much better, he'll struggle to do worse.

[Athers]

Just watched the goals. Their lads had so, so, so much time to line up their body positions and pick their spots. Really shit stuff.

[Prufrock]

And Dougies is better than the manager you didn't want sacked.

Based on what? Avoiding relegation and beating United in the cup?

I don't dislike Freedman but this is a baseless assumption. Coyle has achieved far more than Freedman has.

I'm talking about PPG this season.....

So on that basis Freedman's no better than Jimmy Phillips.

Whether or not Jimmy Phillips is or is not better than Freedman has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Freedman is better than Coyle.

As for the 'why not just give it Jimmy Phillips if we don't have to go up this year' line of argument:

Firstly, several different sources have claimed Phillips didn't want it, so that would be a fairly convincing reason not to give it him.

Secondly, even if Phillips did want it: If you think Freedman can't get us up this year because we had too much left to do, and the squad was fooked, but think he could next year, whilst, on the other hand, thinking Phillips can't get us up this year or next, then that's a pretty good case for giving it Freedman over Phillips.

I'm not saying I think that is the case, or that I think that is what the board were thinking (I reckon, and it's only that, that when appointing Freedman the board were hoping for a fairly swift dramatic upturn and immediate return, but expecting to return by the end of next season), but it is a fairly coherent counter-argument to 'if they aren't planning on going up this year why not just give it Phillips.

[BL3]

Secondly, even if Phillips did want it: If you think Freedman can't get us up this year because we had too much left to do, and the squad was fooked, but think he could next year, whilst, on the other hand, thinking Phillips can't get us up this year or next, then that's a pretty good case for giving it Freedman over Phillips.

There was plenty of time to turn things round when he was appointed and he's on record as saying that he inherited a decent squad. If we don't go up this year i'd be surprised if we go up next year, regardless of who's in charge.

[thebish]

here's the thing...

it's bonkers to have made up your mind about Freedman after 10 games

it's equally bonkers to absolve Freedman from all blame after we let 5 goals in against Peterborough - especially as we have been assured that he is starting by tightening us up at the back and making us hard to beat...

we're not hard to beat.

balanced view...

too early to throw any toys out of the pram - but not unreasonable to ask WHY we are leaking 5 goals to the BOTTOM side in the league - the manager picks the team and sets them up (otherwise what is his job? - as BWFCi used to tell us every other day) - so he must shoulder some of the blame - no?

[TANGODANCER]

Having only seen MOTD I can't really add much. What I didn't see was Dougie Freedman anywhere near the soft player errors that put us two down in six minutes. To come back from 5-2 down then, to 5-4 at the end, seems pretty creditable. I wasn't too impressed with Bogdan either on one or two occasions. That said, I only saw highlights. I did read this thread from end to end and the negativity during the game is just staggering.

[malcd1]

Lets see how Dougie decides to solve the problem in the January transfer window. He has inherited a squad of players who are just not good enough, especially at the back. We can't blame him for that. That of course does not absolve any blame for the defeat yesterday.

What we need is a steadying influence at the back. It doesn't have to be a great player but perhaps someone like a Simon Coleman. Calm and assured.

[BWFC_Insane]

here's the thing...

it's bonkers to have made up your mind about Freedman after 10 games

it's equally bonkers to absolve Freedman from all blame after we let 5 goals in against Peterborough - especially as we have been assured that he is starting by tightening us up at the back and making us hard to beat...

we're not hard to beat.

balanced view...

too early to throw any toys out of the pram - but not unreasonable to ask WHY we are leaking 5 goals to the BOTTOM side in the league - the manager picks the team and sets them up (otherwise what is his job? - as BWFCi used to tell us every other day) - so he must shoulder some of the blame - no?

I think the 2 defeats in 10 or whatever suggests otherwise.

Certainly harder to beat than what was going on before.

The manager takes the blame for me when they are his players that he has chosen and assembled, or when the manager doesn't have players he has chosen or assembled but is making clearly wong selections week in week out and not changing.

For me Dougie hasn't put this team together and isn't doing much wrong selection wise. The team he picked at Brighton was odd, we didn't see it again. Yesterday's team was what most people on here were selecting.

[BL3]

How many decent teams have we played in his time in charge? Cardiff, Leicester and maybe Brighton? If winning three games in ten wasn't good enough when Coyle was in charge, it's not good enough now.

[plymouth wanderer]

Coyle had 2 years you thick cvnt

It hasn't been perfect (I'm sure Dougie knows that) but slating Dougie after ten Games is ridiculous

[Bruce Rioja]

If winning three games in ten wasn't good enough when Coyle was in charge, it's not good enough now.

Yep, Coyle's abject failure was all about him only winning three games in ten. Genius.

[BL3]

If winning three games in ten wasn't good enough when Coyle was in charge, it's not good enough now.

Yep, Coyle's abject failure was all about him only winning three games in ten. Genius.

Let's stick to this season shall we? Because like it or not, he was still in charge ten games in because he was deemed good enough to get us straight back up. Three wins in ten was deemed not good enough. Dougie was appointed to get us 'back on track' and he's delivered three wins in ten games...

[plymouth wanderer]

If winning three games in ten wasn't good enough when Coyle was in charge, it's not good enough now.

Yep, Coyle's abject failure was all about him only winning three games in ten. Genius.

Let's stick to this season shall we? Because like it or not, he was still in charge ten games in because he was deemed good enough to get us straight back up. Three wins in ten was deemed not good enough. Dougie was appointed to get us 'back on track' and he's delivered three wins in ten games...

So if where living in BL3 dream world for a moment we should sack DF

Or are you going to dodge another straight question like a coward that you are

[ChrisC]

If winning three games in ten wasn't good enough when Coyle was in charge, it's not good enough now.

Yep, Coyle's abject failure was all about him only winning three games in ten. Genius.

Let's stick to this season shall we? Because like it or not, he was still in charge ten games in because he was deemed good enough to get us straight back up. Three wins in ten was deemed not good enough. Dougie was appointed to get us 'back on track' and he's delivered three wins in ten games...

You talk utter gash.. Coyle started the season with HIS team that HE had put together over 2 years and he had pre season along with the transfer window. How is that comparable to Freedman who has walked in with a team he doesn't know, not been able to chop and change and having to get the squad onside to his way of thinking etc..

All you go on about is that Freedman has said he has a good bunch of lads etc.. he is hardly going to come out and say there a bunch of shit useless wankers when he needs to try and keep them onside for the games before the window opens.

[boltonboris]

If we're comparing Coyle over the last 2 years. We need to do the same with Freedman. I can't be arsed checking, but I imagine There's not much between them, other than the quality of opposition.

I also like the way somebody daring to say the new manager isn't the messiah is branded a "thick cvnt"

[plymouth wanderer]

If we're comparing Coyle over the last 2 years. We need to do the same with Freedman. I can't be arsed checking, but I imagine There's not much between them, other than the quality of opposition.

I also like the way somebody daring to say the new manager isn't the messiah is branded a "thick cvnt"

You still pissed