Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[CrazyHorse]

Sagging off Garty? Stupid fooking autocorrecting keypad.

[thebish]

Anyway, WW, a team that starts N'Gog and Afobe clearly aren't going anywhere either or they? .

Probably not. Not in a 4-4-2 which is what I think we played on Saturday with NGog out of position in the hole.

We'd have lost 4-0 with yer mate in.

Maybe we should list all the forward positions that N'gog doesn't play as a sort of Christmas top 100 quiz.

I'll start with

1) In the hole (nicked this one off Boris)
2) Up front and wide on either flank
3) Up front anywhere, where he might have to head it.


Etc etc.

[thebish]

Dougie has some more theories too...

there's nowt wrong with the players' attitudes (apparently)
and the fans need to adapt to losing (like the players have)

Manager Dougie Freedman believes Bolton are still adapting to the Championship following a second consecutive defeat.

Wanderers were beaten 1-0 by Sheffield Wednesday on Boxing Day, four days after a 5-4 loss at Peterborough.

Freedman told BBC Radio Manchester: "The attitude is fine. I think it's the understanding of the division.

"You can't just turn up and expect to win because you've had some Premier League experience. You have to do the small things correctly."

Bolton are playing in the second tier for the first time since 2000-01 after suffering relegation from the Premier League in May.

After a sluggish start under Owen Coyle, their fortunes appeared to be turning when Freedman, who was appointed in October, started his reign at the Reebok Stadium with a six-game unbeaten run.

But they have now lost three of their last five games and have slipped to 16th in the Championship table.

There was a negative response from a section of the home supporters after the defeat by Wednesday, a reaction that the former Crystal Palace boss could understand.

He continued: "I think they [the fans] are going through a transition right now, the same as the players.

"They've had Premier League football, they've come down and expect to come back up and it's not happening.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I'm sure he said we'd adapted the other day. Now it appears we're still adapting...

[Worthy4England]

I like "there was a negative response" makes it sound like someone tutted and shook their head.

The reason there is some expectation we could've gone back up, is down to the fact that we still have the highest wage bill in the fecking Championship. The more I see, the more I'd be in favour of a mass clear out in the next two transfer windows and look towards next season.

The keeper is suspect, the back four largely shite, the midfield generally ineffective and no goalscorers upfront. Other than that, we're sorted.

[officer_dibble]

I've definitley adapted to not winning. Its been happening most weeks since about 2007.

[officer_dibble]

As for booing it happens at half time and full time. Its utter shit every week so seems fair enough to me. During the game is pointless but afterwards...well I'm a skulker offer but if someone who is stumping up money doesn't like what they see and wants to let the c*nts who cream a salary from that ticket money know; fair enough. They are lucky there is anyone there to boo.

[CrazyHorse]

and the fans need to adapt to losing (like the players have)

I've been a Bolton fan for thirty years. Does he not think I'm used to seeing us fcking lose?

[thebish]

and the fans need to adapt to losing (like the players have)

I've been a Bolton fan for thirty years. Does he not think I'm used to seeing us fcking lose?

seems not - he is a noob, though!

[SE25_1905]

Palace fan here in peace.

This thread was linked onto one of the Palace forums and having thread through a chunk of it a lot of it makes familiar reading whilst I feel there are other bits that perhaps are a little wide of the mark. One thing that perhaps you guys may not be aware of was that whilst DF was a much loved Palace hero – when it comes to his tenure of management there seems to be a split of opinion from Palace fans. I am speaking of one who defended him resolutely throughout his reign and with the benefit of hindsight can accept that some of what I felt to be true of him was wrong but other aspects were right.

The positives of Dougie are there. He has a very good eye for a player and so you should see what he can do in Jan. He got some very unfit and under-performing players to play better and that made a huge difference to our own fortunes and he has a determination that is his biggest strength and biggest weakness equally.

The negatives are ones that you are identifying on here. He is so hell-bent of defending that it gets worrisome. If he was managing a side that can defend brilliantly (let’s face it they don’t exist in this league) then his Italian philosophy could be incredible – but more often than not it is ‘squeaky bum’ time throughout the 2nd half of matches whilst more and more of the pitch is conceded to allow numerous crosses and shots to reign in on goal. If something is pushed enough it’ll often break.

The transformation of us from being ultra-negative to attacking was instantaneous and I can’t believe that DF abandoned his philosophy that quickly. Part of it definitely was that he got in some better players but it seems our chairman told him in no uncertain terms to improve the football or the job is at risk. 8 games later he is your manager. A stat that I’ve just found out is that since last March, under DF w never won a game by more than a single goal and since he left we’ve won about 4 or so by larger margins. It seems he is intent on playing defensive football and you shouldn’t fool yourselves into thinking it’ll change very soon. In one of our recent club DVD’s Dougie said that ‘just because you play one way when you are a player – doesn’t mean that is how you want to manage’. That sent a few alarm bells round our fans when we’d played 90 minutes of football without registering one shot on target. However, when he cam e in to stave off relegation he gave us the steel we desperately needed.

He is capable of working through the hard stuff to improve the club overall and if you had, say, a three year project to be looking at getting back into the Prem I’d say he is an ideal candidate. However, it seems you need / want that sooner and I am not sure DF is the man for that task.

[ChrisC]

Palace fan here in peace.

This thread was linked onto one of the Palace forums and having thread through a chunk of it a lot of it makes familiar reading whilst I feel there are other bits that perhaps are a little wide of the mark. One thing that perhaps you guys may not be aware of was that whilst DF was a much loved Palace hero – when it comes to his tenure of management there seems to be a split of opinion from Palace fans. I am speaking of one who defended him resolutely throughout his reign and with the benefit of hindsight can accept that some of what I felt to be true of him was wrong but other aspects were right.

The positives of Dougie are there. He has a very good eye for a player and so you should see what he can do in Jan. He got some very unfit and under-performing players to play better and that made a huge difference to our own fortunes and he has a determination that is his biggest strength and biggest weakness equally.

The negatives are ones that you are identifying on here. He is so hell-bent of defending that it gets worrisome. If he was managing a side that can defend brilliantly (let’s face it they don’t exist in this league) then his Italian philosophy could be incredible – but more often than not it is ‘squeaky bum’ time throughout the 2nd half of matches whilst more and more of the pitch is conceded to allow numerous crosses and shots to reign in on goal. If something is pushed enough it’ll often break.

The transformation of us from being ultra-negative to attacking was instantaneous and I can’t believe that DF abandoned his philosophy that quickly. Part of it definitely was that he got in some better players but it seems our chairman told him in no uncertain terms to improve the football or the job is at risk. 8 games later he is your manager. A stat that I’ve just found out is that since last March, under DF w never won a game by more than a single goal and since he left we’ve won about 4 or so by larger margins. It seems he is intent on playing defensive football and you shouldn’t fool yourselves into thinking it’ll change very soon. In one of our recent club DVD’s Dougie said that ‘just because you play one way when you are a player – doesn’t mean that is how you want to manage’. That sent a few alarm bells round our fans when we’d played 90 minutes of football without registering one shot on target. However, when he cam e in to stave off relegation he gave us the steel we desperately needed.

He is capable of working through the hard stuff to improve the club overall and if you had, say, a three year project to be looking at getting back into the Prem I’d say he is an ideal candidate. However, it seems you need / want that sooner and I am not sure DF is the man for that task.

You have also thrown alot of points away since Holloway turned you into Blackpool Mk2. If you do go up to the premiership you wont last long with Holloway in charge unless he learns from his last spell in the big time.

[SE25_1905]

Palace fan here in peace.

This thread was linked onto one of the Palace forums and having thread through a chunk of it a lot of it makes familiar reading whilst I feel there are other bits that perhaps are a little wide of the mark. One thing that perhaps you guys may not be aware of was that whilst DF was a much loved Palace hero – when it comes to his tenure of management there seems to be a split of opinion from Palace fans. I am speaking of one who defended him resolutely throughout his reign and with the benefit of hindsight can accept that some of what I felt to be true of him was wrong but other aspects were right.

The positives of Dougie are there. He has a very good eye for a player and so you should see what he can do in Jan. He got some very unfit and under-performing players to play better and that made a huge difference to our own fortunes and he has a determination that is his biggest strength and biggest weakness equally.

The negatives are ones that you are identifying on here. He is so hell-bent of defending that it gets worrisome. If he was managing a side that can defend brilliantly (let’s face it they don’t exist in this league) then his Italian philosophy could be incredible – but more often than not it is ‘squeaky bum’ time throughout the 2nd half of matches whilst more and more of the pitch is conceded to allow numerous crosses and shots to reign in on goal. If something is pushed enough it’ll often break.

The transformation of us from being ultra-negative to attacking was instantaneous and I can’t believe that DF abandoned his philosophy that quickly. Part of it definitely was that he got in some better players but it seems our chairman told him in no uncertain terms to improve the football or the job is at risk. 8 games later he is your manager. A stat that I’ve just found out is that since last March, under DF w never won a game by more than a single goal and since he left we’ve won about 4 or so by larger margins. It seems he is intent on playing defensive football and you shouldn’t fool yourselves into thinking it’ll change very soon. In one of our recent club DVD’s Dougie said that ‘just because you play one way when you are a player – doesn’t mean that is how you want to manage’. That sent a few alarm bells round our fans when we’d played 90 minutes of football without registering one shot on target. However, when he cam e in to stave off relegation he gave us the steel we desperately needed.

He is capable of working through the hard stuff to improve the club overall and if you had, say, a three year project to be looking at getting back into the Prem I’d say he is an ideal candidate. However, it seems you need / want that sooner and I am not sure DF is the man for that task.

You have also thrown alot of points away since Holloway turned you into Blackpool Mk2. If you do go up to the premiership you wont last long with Holloway in charge unless he learns from his last spell in the big time.

We have thrown a few points away for sure. It is the nature of the beast really that we knew IH would sacrifice certain defensive priorities for attacking ones. The view here really is that our attack is our strength so we'll play to it. IH has started OK but there's not been enough time to judge. At the time DF left I'd have said that I'd have wanted him to continue on - but it seems we have continued to progress since he left so I'm more than happy with IH.

It is an odd one because back in August I'd have been certain that Palace would be more concerned with the bottom 6 than the top 6 so we don't feel the pressure to go up at the mo - but thanks in a large part to Dougie expectations have changed. I guess you guys just need to be told whether Dougie's project is still a short-term one or a longer-term one.

[boltonboris]

SE25. Please can you link the Palace forum post that you mentioned? Wouldn't mind having a nosey... Cheers

[Annoyed Grunt]

http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239263" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unsure if the one.....but they're expecting a massive crowd for our visit..

[SE25_1905]

SE25. Please can you link the Palace forum post that you mentioned? Wouldn't mind having a nosey... Cheers

There are a few on cpfc.org as shown above.

The one that linked me here was this one: http://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=106&tid=128123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I tend to use both those forums.

[BL3]

He is capable of working through the hard stuff to improve the club overall and if you had, say, a three year project to be looking at getting back into the Prem I’d say he is an ideal candidate. However, it seems you need / want that sooner and I am not sure DF is the man for that task.

The concern i have with this whole long term project angle, is that the longer we're in the Championship, the more costs are going to have to be cut. Crowds are around the 18,000 mark this season. I dread to think what they will be next season unless we're challenging for promotion. Players may have to be offloaded to bring in revenue and that includes any gems that Dougie manages to unearth in the lower leagues.

[BWFC_Insane]

He is capable of working through the hard stuff to improve the club overall and if you had, say, a three year project to be looking at getting back into the Prem I’d say he is an ideal candidate. However, it seems you need / want that sooner and I am not sure DF is the man for that task.

The concern i have with this whole long term project angle, is that the longer we're in the Championship, the more costs are going to have to be cut. Crowds are around the 18,000 mark this season. I dread to think what they will be next season unless we're challenging for promotion. Players may have to be offloaded to bring in revenue and that includes any gems that Dougie manages to unearth in the lower leagues.

Indeed, but we aren't very good. Even if by some miracle we'd managed to find a manager capable of turning this sorry lot into play off contenders what would happen next season?

History of several clubs will show that the trick is to not be relegated in the first place and once you are it's a hard slog. Last season was so so damaging in so many ways, which is why it was incredibly frustrating to watch eleven years of toil and effort being pissed away so effortlessly.

But given where we are now, and given going up this season looks to be gone, I just hope that Dougie is able to sort our the mess he talks about, clearly it's not an overnight job. I have hope he will rather than confidence.

But I do think he's a bright individual who knows what he wants and for me that's no bad thing for a starting point.

[SE25_1905]

He is capable of working through the hard stuff to improve the club overall and if you had, say, a three year project to be looking at getting back into the Prem I’d say he is an ideal candidate. However, it seems you need / want that sooner and I am not sure DF is the man for that task.

The concern i have with this whole long term project angle, is that the longer we're in the Championship, the more costs are going to have to be cut. Crowds are around the 18,000 mark this season. I dread to think what they will be next season unless we're challenging for promotion. Players may have to be offloaded to bring in revenue and that includes any gems that Dougie manages to unearth in the lower leagues.

It is a tough balancing act for sure. We're an example of a club that struggled to bounce back after relegation (although we never managed to remain there for any period of time)!

Projects tend to need a plan of action and I am not sure that the Cardiff or Leicester models are a remotely good idea. Swansea, Norwich and the like are where it needs to be (and I hope Palace can do something similar this season) where something is built rather than assembled. To be honest that is what puzzled me most about Dougie leaving. Aside from the lack of respect for our fans (a simple 'I enjoyed my time at Palace and want to thank the fans for their support' would have been nice) it was that he FINALLY started to see the tedium of building his project starting to reap rewards and then decided to leave and not see how far he could have gone with it....

For us - our model is simple, bring through kids from the academy and over a 2-3 year window see if they can get you up. If not, sell a couple of the brightest stars to fund the next 2-3 years. Currently Zaha and Williams are where our jewels are (alongside some good older pros) and if we fail to get up with them this term then I fully expect to see them go and another cycle begin.

It is a little frustrating and I don't know if it will work longer term but its what we've bought into after years of mismanagment under Simon Jordan so the fans are onside currently.

How do you guys see your options? If the board decided on a project would a lot of fans start getting prickly?

[CrazyHorse]

If the board decided on a project, I think most fans would be right behind them.
But they've not; they've decided on a two pronged agenda...a 2 points per game minimum and an immediate return to the Premier League. I think the first is now mathematically impossible and the second laughingly optimistic.

[BL3]

How do you guys see your options? If the board decided on a project would a lot of fans start getting prickly?

The club's stated aim was promotion this season. My concern are comments like this one:

http://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=1 ... 123&page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With Freedman it's either 'I want all my 11 positions filled with 4-2-3-1 players or I'm not playing ball, and you can all lump it until then, or indefinitely.' That doesn't wash everywhere and forever.

That's worrying, because it would have been much more practical to hire someone who was capable of working with the players that they inherited rather than dismantling it all and starting again because even if you do that there's no real guarantee of success.