Millwall @ The Reebok

[boltonboris]

For me, it's as simple as: Freedman is marginally better than Coyle, but that doesn't make him good.

[bobo the clown]

For me, it's as simple as: Freedman is marginally better than Coyle, but that doesn't make him good.

Same here, at the moment. Willing to give him some benefit of doubts ... & to remain with a BIT of hope he can turn it better, but getting less confident right now.

About this time last year we had Coyle's amazing reversion to losing patterns v Wiggin at home.

Yesterday, lesser scale, but the Afobe for Lee moment had that impact on me.

[boltonboris]

Exactly. That sub. THAT sub.

But people defend it, as its not Coyle. I'm not calling for his head and I've been saying since his first 2 games that we may see marginal improvement (not enough to be effective), but lets not kid ourselves that it's going to be anything other than shite.

[a1]

This is getting really bad, shades of those who attacked Megon/Coyle being outcasts!

largely the megson outers wanted coyle , so how can somebody be anti-megson and then anti-coyle ?

seems stupid.. and thats before they almost invevitably turn into dougie out-ers.

almost like theyve not took proper notice of what is/was happening at any point of any of the(ir) reigns.

they'll just get wrote off as impatient bastards.

[a1]

Exactly. That sub. THAT sub.

But people defend it, as its not Coyle. I'm not calling for his head and I've been saying since his first 2 games that we may see marginal improvement (not enough to be effective), but lets not kid ourselves that it's going to be anything other than shite.

until he holds lee out the team for what seems like 8 weeks coz he were frightened of him getting banned for his own personal showpiece, happily losing league games while playing out of position / crapper players in his place, then yeah ok.

.. but they drew.

fwiw i remember allardyce, rioch and many others doing similar wtf subs.

bo selecta will take afobe's place when he's back fit/not injured/whatever.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Frazier stated it wasn't the quality of our squad but that they had to adapt.

Yes, adapt to the Championship. Something which you apparently don't know anything about and yet it didn't stop you rubbishing his opinion.

I posted about our players. Something I know enough about to form an opinion

Boggers - might improve. Might not.
Lonergan - Dunno.
Mears - Shit or ok depending on who you speak to.
Riley - Who knows.
Davies - Hard to score.
Ngog - In some ways great, others shite.

That's debatable.

I also stated something along the lines of football is football. The championship is is not a different sport and a professional footballer that has played football for most of their life cannot use that as another excuse. I can understand a different country but a different division?

As for your last comment. I said it was debatable. The whole point of my post. Debate it. I gave my opinion on almost all those players. Some are hard to score due to their being shit one game and good the next. How hard is that to understand? I have stated opinion in my posts. You have stated nothing but a childish desire to twist and argue with every point to try and get me to say that Dougie is a wanker. He might well be a wanker, but he has got a long way to catch up with you.

Now feck off, that cliff is waiting for you

[FaninOz]

Basically the team and players have shown that they are just not good enough to do well in this league irrespective of which Manager we have. A few years in the Championship, if we can hold our position as the Club and manager transforms the team will do us no harm, providing we get the salaries and costs down to a finacially acceptable level so that the debt doesn't increase and hopefully reduces.

For fans like me who suffered the old third and fourth division days of bygone years, playing in the Second Division (Oops I mean Championship) is not a bad thing for a small club with limited active support and finances.

I'll go back to sleep now.

[boltonboris]

So when you know who was manager, it was:

The players are shit because of Coyle

To :-

The players are nothing to do with Freedman.

Just so we're clear.

[CAPSLOCK]

So when you know who was manager, it was:

The players are shit because of Coyle

To :-

The players are nothing to do with Freedman.

Just so we're clear.

The players were signed by Coyle

I really thought they were just mismanaged

Now, I'm starting to think he signed bad uns and mismanaged 'em

Either way, its down to coyle

I'll judge this fella 10 games into next season when we'll probably be 8th in the Prem

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So when you know who was manager, it was:

The players are shit because of Coyle

To :-

The players are nothing to do with Freedman.

Just so we're clear.

The players were signed by Coyle

I really thought they were just mismanaged

Now, I'm starting to think he signed bad uns and mismanaged 'em

Either way, its down to coyle

I'll judge this fella 10 games into next season when we'll probably be 8th in the Prem

Really?, I mean come on, really?
There's a tiny snowball's chance in hell that we just possibly might maybe scrape into the play-offs, but that possibility is receding by the match.

[jaffka]

So when you know who was manager, it was:

The players are shit because of Coyle

To :-

The players are nothing to do with Freedman.

Just so we're clear.

The players were signed by Coyle

I really thought they were just mismanaged

Now, I'm starting to think he signed bad uns and mismanaged 'em

Either way, its down to coyle

I'll judge this fella 10 games into next season when we'll probably be 8th in the Prem

i hope that youa right but i cannot see it

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Battling my way through this thread - it's hardly a feast - but one thing caught my eye, from the always-readable Norm...

shed the players who despite being highly paid have shown themselves not good enough since wembley..

Although Wembley is only 21 months ago, a lot's changed.

The Wembley players: Jaaskelainen; Steinsson, Cahill, Knight, Robinson; Lee, Muamba (Moreno 73), Elmander, Petrov (MDavies 46); KDavies, Klasnic (Taylor 46). Unused subs: Bogdan, Alonso, Wheater, Cohen. Unselected that day: Blake, S Davis, Gardner, Holden, Ricketts, Sturridge.

By my reckoning that's 14 out of the 24-man squad gone, with Petrov about to make it 15. That's a fair old turnover, and much of it by design.

I'm not quite sure what point that makes, other than to say Wembley is a long time gone and a hell of a lot has changed since.

[CAPSLOCK]

Battling my way through this thread - it's hardly a feast - but one thing caught my eye, from the always-readable Norm...

shed the players who despite being highly paid have shown themselves not good enough since wembley..

Although Wembley is only 21 months ago, a lot's changed.

The Wembley players: Jaaskelainen; Steinsson, Cahill, Knight, Robinson; Lee, Muamba (Moreno 73), Elmander, Petrov (MDavies 46); KDavies, Klasnic (Taylor 46). Unused subs: Bogdan, Alonso, Wheater, Cohen. Unselected that day: Blake, S Davis, Gardner, Holden, Ricketts, Sturridge.

By my reckoning that's 14 out of the 24-man squad gone, with Petrov about to make it 15. That's a fair old turnover, and much of it by design.

I'm not quite sure what point that makes, other than to say Wembley is a long time gone and a hell of a lot has changed since.

Knight and Kevin Davies are still stinking the place out?

[Armchair Wanderer]

Exactly. That sub. THAT sub.

But people defend it, as its not Coyle.

Didn't see the game but with DF, as with previous managers probably, he wants to keep it tight til near the end then hit them with everything we got. On paper bringing off two ineffective wingers and bringing on two speedy striker/winger kids isn't the craziest idea in the world, especially half way through the second half when we're trying to win the game. I really want Sordell and Afobe to be good, it doesn't sound like they are, but they're the best we've got until Craig is ready!? And we got the squad we got until he brings some more in!

Having said that I have raised an eyebrow at some of the subs from DF.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The Wembley players: Jaaskelainen; Steinsson, Cahill, Knight, Robinson; Lee, Muamba (Moreno 73), Elmander, Petrov (MDavies 46); KDavies, Klasnic (Taylor 46). Unused subs: Bogdan, Alonso, Wheater, Cohen. Unselected that day: Blake, S Davis, Gardner, Holden, Ricketts, Sturridge.

By my reckoning that's 14 out of the 24-man squad gone, with Petrov about to make it 15. That's a fair old turnover, and much of it by design.

I'm not quite sure what point that makes

Knight and Kevin Davies are still stinking the place out?

By design, both having been offered new contracts in summer...

[BWFC_Insane]

So when you know who was manager, it was:

The players are shit because of Coyle

To :-

The players are nothing to do with Freedman.

Just so we're clear.

The players were signed by Coyle

I really thought they were just mismanaged

Now, I'm starting to think he signed bad uns and mismanaged 'em

Either way, its down to coyle

I think this is right.

Forget the premiership next season though, we've a long road ahead whoever manages us.

Coyle assembled this lot and it will take a while to repair.

People can talk about the sub all they want, but we created two of the best chances AFTER the substitutions on Saturday. The result got no worse and it was certainly not a 'ridiculous' change however much Boltonboris wants to pretend it was.

Dougie is apparently too negative, but we ended up with 4 strikers on the pitch on Saturday and only a goal line clearance saved Millwall.

I think judging a manager after a handful of games with players he's not picked on contracts he had no control over is a bit futile. I really honestly do. A manager needs to impose his vision on a club. That takes time. Thats my view. I think its slightly irrelevant to say 'he's only a slight improvement on Coyle'. In terms of what? Immediate results? And how is that framed? If after 2 or 3 years he's signed expensive players who flop like Ream and Alonso and Sordell and NGog and Petrov all to varying degrees then sure he's no better than Coyle. But if he builds us stronger and better and we progress and show signs of life again, then he will be better.

At this stage I'm not sure there is a short term fix to what has been a long term problem.

[CAPSLOCK]

Exactly. That sub. THAT sub.

But people defend it, as its not Coyle.

Didn't see the game but with DF, as with previous managers probably, he wants to keep it tight til near the end then hit them with everything we got. On paper bringing off two ineffective wingers and bringing on two speedy striker/winger kids isn't the craziest idea in the world, especially half way through the second half when we're trying to win the game. I really want Sordell and Afobe to be good, it doesn't sound like they are, but they're the best we've got until Craig is ready!? And we got the squad we got until he brings some more in!

Having said that I have raised an eyebrow at some of the subs from DF.

Which is exactly what they were on Saturday

It was a toss up who should go first - I'd guess most wingers would be ineffective if top of my option list was pass it to Davies

[Armchair Wanderer]

The Wembley players: Jaaskelainen; Steinsson, Cahill, Knight, Robinson; Lee, Muamba (Moreno 73), Elmander, Petrov (MDavies 46); KDavies, Klasnic (Taylor 46). Unused subs: Bogdan, Alonso, Wheater, Cohen. Unselected that day: Blake, S Davis, Gardner, Holden, Ricketts, Sturridge.

By my reckoning that's 14 out of the 24-man squad gone, with Petrov about to make it 15. That's a fair old turnover, and much of it by design.

I'm not quite sure what point that makes

Knight and Kevin Davies are still stinking the place out?

By design, both having been offered new contracts in summer...

Conclusion: OC wasn't the best in terms of identifying talent and did better with GM's players than with his own (by how his time ended). Albeit the GM players may have been more expensive.

[Lord Kangana]

I'd say that sums it up fairly well.

Theres an awfully large number of high-wage earners in red there. Perhaps DSB has inadvertently stumbled upon something? Its been pretty much one-way traffic since.

[CAPSLOCK]

The Wembley players: Jaaskelainen; Steinsson, Cahill, Knight, Robinson; Lee, Muamba (Moreno 73), Elmander, Petrov (MDavies 46); KDavies, Klasnic (Taylor 46). Unused subs: Bogdan, Alonso, Wheater, Cohen. Unselected that day: Blake, S Davis, Gardner, Holden, Ricketts, Sturridge.

By my reckoning that's 14 out of the 24-man squad gone, with Petrov about to make it 15. That's a fair old turnover, and much of it by design.

I'm not quite sure what point that makes

Knight and Kevin Davies are still stinking the place out?

By design, both having been offered new contracts in summer...

Hmmm

Did you have to remind me?