Millwall @ The Reebok

[CAPSLOCK]

I'd say that sums it up fairly well.

Theres an awfully large number of high-wage earners in red there. Perhaps DSB has inadvertently stumbled upon something? Its been pretty much one-way traffic since.

It has (though Coyle told us it was nowt to do with cost and all about his 'vision') and maybe the task of keeping little old Bolton in the top league is all but impossible

However, this team has cost more to build than any other in this League - pure guess work, but I'll not be far off - and the wage bill is in the top 2 or 3

So, he's not getting away with this one

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd say that sums it up fairly well.

Theres an awfully large number of high-wage earners in red there. Perhaps DSB has inadvertently stumbled upon something? Its been pretty much one-way traffic since.

Except the team we had last season cost £10M more than the one Megson left in terms of wages.

And still went down.

Over a longer period we've paid more in wages for what seems like gradually lesser players and poorer results.

Part of that can of course be attributed to football inflation.

I'm not convinced all of it can though.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Oh and someone needs to put 50p in the meter.. was it just me that thought the lights where messed up today? Could hardly see the Millwall fans when the sun went down.

Certainly seemed much dimmer on the t'telly. Cost-saving?!

Theres an awfully large number of high-wage earners in red there. Perhaps DSB has inadvertently stumbled upon something? Its been pretty much one-way traffic since.

For the record, players signed since Wembley: Reo-Coker, Pratley, Eagles, Mears, Ngog, Ream, Sordell, Wylde, Andrews, Joe McKee, Mills, Lonergan, CDavies.

(Oh and we also sold Al-Habsi and Ward, who were out on loan at Wembleytime)

As for Freedman, Coyle, Wanderers and hell in a handcart. We're here because we're passionate about BWFC. Sadly, this frequently descends into black-and-white point-scoring bollocks: "You distrust Freedman so you must love Coyle", "You hated Coyle so it's your fault", "Yeah but you bummed Megson", "You said something slightly different on another thread so I'm better than you". Tiresome isn't the word.

Even from where I sit - a long way away – it seems inarguable that Freedman has not been the success we'd hoped. He talks a good game but any improvements are largely intangible and basically unprovable ("attitude", etc).

Comparisons with other managers (here previously or elsewhere now) are somewhat pointless and, I suspect, largely fuelled by petty point-scoring. The question is, are we getting better? The answer would almost certainly seem to be "Not nearly quick enough for this season to be a success," especially if we need 2ppg from hereon in.

Which makes it a long-term job. I would hope that as spring comes along we can put a run together, to prove there is life and to cheer the entire place up a bit. I worry that if we don't, the attendances might slip further: they're hovering around 17,000 at the moment, but a considerable percenatge of that is season-ticket holders. Does anyone know how many STs we ended up selling? In mid-June LoV reported that we had sold 11,000 - more than the previous summer. Without a serious spring upturn in performances and results, there's a serious threat to that number – our bedrock support.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Would be a worry how many of those ST holders signed up for this season assuming they'd see lots of 4-0 drubbings and a promotion party towards the end of the season, how many of those would sign up for another season of the drudgery and disappointment that real life in the Championship seems to actually offer.

[Bruno3]

If by some miracle we were promoted this season we'd get absoluteley slaughtered in the Prem with the team as it stands. Better get resigned to life in the Championship (unless we relegated)

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Would be a worry how many of those ST holders signed up for this season assuming they'd see lots of 4-0 drubbings and a promotion party towards the end of the season, how many of those would sign up for another season of the drudgery and disappointment that real life in the Championship seems to actually offer.

Very much so, Brian, at the end of the day, for sure.

Further, I've done five minutes' digging into the necessary PPG and this season is bang on course for the usual 75-point requirement for the final play-off place. Which, as we're 42 points shy of that target with 19 games left, does indeed mean we need to top 2ppg for the rest of the season: basically WDWDWDWDWDW or WWLWWLWWL....

(Year, points of seventh-placed team after 27 games, then at end)
2013-43-??
2012-42-75
2011-42-75
2010-40-70
2009-43-74
2008-40-70
2007-43-75

[officer_dibble]

We'll have 12k on next season.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

A question to those who went: Did we look any good? Leaving aside the arguments about managers (and that substitution), did the team look unlucky to be held, or lucky to get a point?

[89bwfc89]

I was there. In my opinion it could have gone either way, with us perhaps the slightly more likely to have come away with the 3 points had it not been for that goal line clearance. If I have to choose one of your options, I'd go with unlucky to be held.

[Leyther_Matt]

We'll have 12k on next season.

And it'll still take a bloody hour to get off the car park. Freedman out.

[BWFC_Insane]

A question to those who went: Did we look any good? Leaving aside the arguments about managers (and that substitution), did the team look unlucky to be held, or lucky to get a point?

Both.

At times we looked awful, ragged, disinterested, less up for it than them. Mainly the first 20 minutes.

At others we looked a class above, dominating the possession and pinning them back.

Our problems lie around our inability to score goals at one end and keep them out at t'other. Moments in games rather than the bulk of games.

Teams can do nowt against us, then one shot will fly in or one piece of poor defending is punished. We seem to build pressure get teams on the ropes, but they cling on by hook or by crook.

In some respects we're probably finding out how Arsenal fans felt when teams like ourselves used to score 2 against them from set pieces and get a draw or better.....

[CAPSLOCK]

A question to those who went: Did we look any good? Leaving aside the arguments about managers (and that substitution), did the team look unlucky to be held, or lucky to get a point?

On the balance of play

Could've lost, should've won

Not sure either team would've scored without a penalty

If you combine their commitment, work ethic and desire with our wage bill, you'd be on to something

[jaffka]

I think that we are lacking a real leader on the pitch, someone who deserves their place in the team but quite prepared to give bo**ckings out to those not grafting.

[ChrisC]

A question to those who went: Did we look any good? Leaving aside the arguments about managers (and that substitution), did the team look unlucky to be held, or lucky to get a point?

Both.

At times we looked awful, ragged, disinterested, less up for it than them. Mainly the first 20 minutes.

At others we looked a class above, dominating the possession and pinning them back.

Our problems lie around our inability to score goals at one end and keep them out at t'other. Moments in games rather than the bulk of games.

Teams can do nowt against us, then one shot will fly in or one piece of poor defending is punished. We seem to build pressure get teams on the ropes, but they cling on by hook or by crook.

In some respects we're probably finding out how Arsenal fans felt when teams like ourselves used to score 2 against them from set pieces and get a draw or better.....

Was there also and I would say Insane is spot on with his analysis.

[BL3]

I have stated opinion in my posts.

No you haven't, you've said you don't know enough about other teams to comment and given a load of non-commital opinions about our squad. There's nothing to debate.

[BL3]

Coyle assembled this lot and it will take a while to repair.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[BL3]

Perhaps DSB has inadvertently stumbled upon something?

You mean the club's stated intention to reduce the wage bill? They've hardly made a secret of it.

[BL3]

For me, it's as simple as: Freedman is marginally better than Coyle, but that doesn't make him good.

Except Coyle had a track record of achievement, something that the experts on here conveniently overlook. One poor season does not make him a poor manager.

Dougie, on the other hand, kept Palace up, didn't do much the season after and then managed half a dozen decent results at the start of this season, after they'd lost the first three.

[BWFC_Insane]

For me, it's as simple as: Freedman is marginally better than Coyle, but that doesn't make him good.

Except Coyle had a track record of achievement, something that the experts on here conveniently overlook. One poor season does not make him a poor manager.

Dougie, on the other hand, kept Palace up, didn't do much the season after and then managed half a dozen decent results at the start of this season, after they'd lost the first three.

Right so thats how its dressed up now is it?

We'll ignore the start to this season and the wembley onwards slump the season before?

And we'll ignore that if you're blaming Freedman for not being able to get results for this group, then Coyle who designed it, is even more culpable, and got even worse results this season.

Coyle was an unmitigated disaster for this club. Lets not get confused by that. If we'd binned him off when it was necessary to in October or November last season when it was apparent to everyone who had any sort of clue that he was taking us down, and possibly into the wilderness for a long time, then we may well not be in this complete mess.

As it is we are. What do you suggest happens now? Given we are where we are, what would you like to see happen to playing staff, coaching staff, and the general direction of the club?

You might as well state that rather than continuing to sit on the fence when asked!

[gemchris1977]

Millwall deserve credit for forcing us into that mistake for their penalty as they hassled us at the back not allowing us to play. No doubting that we have class players but you need players who will go in where it hurts and like a battle (Vela, Spearing, Wheater, K Davies) and only having a few of these does not help. How many times have we defended as well as Milwall did in that second half would we have managed to clear that ball of the line if it was at the other end my answer is never and no. Millwall have a centre half who couldn't hold a place down in Sheff Weds team and another who is like his name says yet they look a class above Knight and Ream because they put everything on the line as they know that is all they have.

Things will be different next season as we will have Holden fully fit (if he signs and has no reaction to his injury) Wheater fully fit Vela fully fit and hopefully Sordell will be settled by then and banging in goals. Also we do not have the stigma of teams playing out of their skins against us because they want to show our players what this division is all about as they were in the premier league last year. Next season we will just be another championship side so hopefully teams won't play anywhere near as well as they are doing against us now.

What we have to do is go on a run even though it might not be good enough to get us up and then that breeds optimism for next season and then maybe just maybe next season will be our time.

Got to be positive