The Politics Thread

[thebish]

FFS why do Gays feel the need to marry in church when what they practise is totally against what these institutions believe in? I’m thinking of pressing for a licence to sell liquor in the local Methodist hall.

go for it.

have you actually paid any attention to what is happening? This is precisely NOT about gays getting married in church. It is a civil ceremony.

anyway - there are plenty of churches (mine included) who would have no problem doing so - the Bible has pretty much NOTHING to say about homosexual relationships - Jesus has nothing at all to say about them.

why are you bothered what the church does or doesn't believe? what's it to you?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

We are talking that for centuries structures and things have been put into place to protect, advance and nurture society,

In what sense were these 'structures' put in place to achieve those goals? And by whom?

Didn't those practices just develop organically because people wanted them?

I know you won't care Hoboh, but you are scary reminder of how a lot of people think in this country. I know it sounds harsh, but nothing will ever change your mind and we'll only ever make good strides on these equality issues when your generation has died out.

[William the White]

We are talking that for centuries structures and things have been put into place to protect, advance and nurture society,

In what sense were these 'structures' put in place to achieve those goals? And by whom?

Didn't those practices just develop organically because people wanted them?

I know you won't care Hoboh, but you are scary reminder of how a lot of people think in this country. I know it sounds harsh, but nothing will ever change your mind and we'll only ever make good strides on these equality issues when your generation has died out.

Just to say it's hoboh's generation that made the major initial advances in gay rights, and women's rights and anti-racism... Opposed tooth and nail by the same generation of your party of whom hoboh is a worthy rep... enjoy your lots history...

[Hoboh]

We are talking that for centuries structures and things have been put into place to protect, advance and nurture society,

In what sense were these 'structures' put in place to achieve those goals? And by whom?

Didn't those practices just develop organically because people wanted them?

I know you won't care Hoboh, but you are scary reminder of how a lot of people think in this country. I know it sounds harsh, but nothing will ever change your mind and we'll only ever make good strides on these equality issues when your generation has died out.

And you young master are a scary reminder why pups should be at the rear of the pack!

[Hoboh]

We are talking that for centuries structures and things have been put into place to protect, advance and nurture society,

In what sense were these 'structures' put in place to achieve those goals? And by whom?

Didn't those practices just develop organically because people wanted them?

I know you won't care Hoboh, but you are scary reminder of how a lot of people think in this country. I know it sounds harsh, but nothing will ever change your mind and we'll only ever make good strides on these equality issues when your generation has died out.

Just to say it's hoboh's generation that made the major initial advances in gay rights, and women's rights and anti-racism... Opposed tooth and nail by the same generation of your party of whom hoboh is a worthy rep... enjoy your lots history...

Thanks William........ I think
BTW please do not label me a 'tory' they are mostly double chinless (mainly due to snouts in the trough) spineless creatures who specialize in bluster.

[Hoboh]

FFS why do Gays feel the need to marry in church when what they practise is totally against what these institutions believe in? I’m thinking of pressing for a licence to sell liquor in the local Methodist hall.

go for it.

have you actually paid any attention to what is happening? This is precisely NOT about gays getting married in church. It is a civil ceremony.

anyway - there are plenty of churches (mine included) who would have no problem doing so - the Bible has pretty much NOTHING to say about homosexual relationships - Jesus has nothing at all to say about them.

why are you bothered what the church does or doesn't believe? what's it to you?

Ahh almost forgot you then bish,
I just don't see the need Gays feel to get married on a beach, on a mountain or down a friggin' pit shaft if it comes to it. Why do they want to be different yet the same? Perhaps I grasped the wrong end of the stick over churches who lets face it marriage is a nice little earner for on their six days off.

[Hoboh]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... itain.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! Whats next Cams? The Romanians and Bulgerians aren't so bad after all No wonder the Scots want to break away and remain Scottish!

[thebish]

I just don't see the need Gays feel to get married on a beach, on a mountain or down a friggin' pit shaft if it comes to it. Why do they want to be different yet the same? Perhaps I grasped the wrong end of the stick over churches who lets face it marriage is a nice little earner for on their six days off.

why does ANYONE feel the need to get married on a beach, on a mountain or down a friggin' pit shaft if it comes to it?

as for the rest!! first you make as if you are out to want to protect the church against those evil militant gays forcing them to marry them - NOW it's the evil church fleecing the world for weddings. (the cost of having the service in my church is less than the cost of the average wedding cake...)

here's the thing...

read it slowly.

1) this is not about gays getting married in church
2) nobody has to get married in church - they choose to do so - presumably because they want to.

I'm staggered why any of this should get you steamed up at all. It doesn't affect your life in any way at all - does it?? if so - how??

[Hoboh]

I just don't see the need Gays feel to get married on a beach, on a mountain or down a friggin' pit shaft if it comes to it. Why do they want to be different yet the same? Perhaps I grasped the wrong end of the stick over churches who lets face it marriage is a nice little earner for on their six days off.

why does ANYONE feel the need to get married on a beach, on a mountain or down a friggin' pit shaft if it comes to it?

as for the rest!! first you make as if you are out to want to protect the church against those evil militant gays forcing them to marry them - NOW it's the evil church fleecing the world for weddings. (the cost of having the service in my church is less than the cost of the average wedding cake...)

here's the thing...

read it slowly.

1) this is not about gays getting married in church
2) nobody has to get married in church - they choose to do so - presumably because they want to.

I'm staggered why any of this should get you steamed up at all. It doesn't affect your life in any way at all - does it?? if so - how??

Cake is expensive down south!
Who says I'm steamed up?
The thing affects me because it is just another nibble on the norm! Was it sometime last week some knob was supposed to be thinking about dropping the age of consent for sex? Crap like that will be next, you watch, thankfully, as mummy alluded too not in my lifetime.

[thebish]

Cake is expensive down south!
Who says I'm steamed up?
The thing affects me because it is just another nibble on the norm! Was it sometime last week some knob was supposed to be thinking about dropping the age of consent for sex? Crap like that will be next, you watch, thankfully, as mummy alluded too not in my lifetime.

not steamed up?? LOL!!

why does it affect you if the norm is nibbled?? It would only affect you if you were somehow prevented from living life the way you wanted to live it. That's not happening. In fact what IS happening is that other people are now being given the same freedom to live their life as they want to as you have been enjoying for many years - and as you can continue to enjoy completely unaffected.

[Hoboh]

Cake is expensive down south!
Who says I'm steamed up?
The thing affects me because it is just another nibble on the norm! Was it sometime last week some knob was supposed to be thinking about dropping the age of consent for sex? Crap like that will be next, you watch, thankfully, as mummy alluded too not in my lifetime.

not steamed up?? LOL!!

why does it affect you if the norm is nibbled?? It would only affect you if you were somehow prevented from living life the way you wanted to live it. That's not happening. In fact what IS happening is that other people are now being given the same freedom to live their life as they want to as you have been enjoying for many years - and as you can continue to enjoy completely unaffected.

Arguing with you is no use I cannot get beyond immortal!

[Prufrock]

In fact what IS happening is that other people are now being given the same freedom to live their life as they want to as you have been enjoying for many years - and as you can continue to enjoy completely unaffected.

Game, set and match.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Just to say it's hoboh's generation that made the major initial advances in gay rights, and women's rights and anti-racism... Opposed tooth and nail by the same generation of your party of whom hoboh is a worthy rep... enjoy your lots history...

I have always been proud to call myself a social liberal.

Of course Hoboh's generation were, by definition, responsible for the progress made in their lifetime.

It's true that the Conservative Party has tended to take the conservative, populist line on these issues. I don't deny that - I'm just saying that the large numbers of people who share Hoboh's view of the world will only be diminished by death, not political argument winning the day. And in what sense is Hoboh a representative of the Conservative Party?

This will be the same Conservative Party, of course, who had a Jewish leader and Prime Minister in an age of virulent anti-semitism, and the first elected female head of government in the Western world.

I've said nothing that necessitates a lesson either in history or consistency, thanks.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Of course Hoboh's generation were, by definition, responsible for the progress made in their lifetime.

It's true that the Conservative Party has tended to take the conservative, populist line on these issues. I don't deny that - I'm just saying that the large numbers of people who share Hoboh's view of the world will only be diminished by death, not political argument winning the day.

I presume I'm from Hoboh's generation though likely one before that. We were the young ones in the sixties who did indeed change the world. Now most of us are still social democrats, if fiscally conservative. Every generation has rednecks and reactionaries, but my generation has far more liberals. It's absurd, in my view, to suggest the younger generation does not have its share of bigots, racists, homophobes and generally evil bastards, probably in the same proportions. What is the average age of ultras or whatever the UK equivalent may be? When my generation dies out you will have lost far more than a few reactionaries, you will have lost people who cared. who fought for the old revolution and who made a difference.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Every generation has rednecks and reactionaries, but my generation has far more liberals. It's absurd, in my view, to suggest the younger generation does not have its share of bigots, racists, homophobes and generally evil bastards, probably in the same proportions.

My view, simply stated, is that in each successive generation in the UK, the proportion of racists and homophobes diminishes. It seems we disagree - perhaps the situation in Canada is different.

This simple view does nothing to detract from the achievements and courage of social liberals, whichever age they fought their necessary battles in.

[seanworth]

Every generation has rednecks and reactionaries, but my generation has far more liberals. It's absurd, in my view, to suggest the younger generation does not have its share of bigots, racists, homophobes and generally evil bastards, probably in the same proportions.

My view, simply stated, is that in each successive generation in the UK, the proportion of racists and homophobes diminishes. It seems we disagree - perhaps the situation in Canada is different.

This simple view does nothing to detract from the achievements and courage of social liberals, whichever age they fought their necessary battles in.

The thing I have noticed on my return to Canada is that among the youth there do seem to be noticeably fewer homophobes and and racists today, but not only in the youth but in society in general (Gay marriage became legal in Canada over 8 years ago). I know that a lot of effort has been made by the schools to educate the youth in this matter, certainly more than during my time.. Today the big push is to cut down on school bullying. As far as liberals I agree with Monty and I'm sure the efforts by the liberals from the past is partly the reason the efforts were put forth in the schools today. As far as rednecks are concerned we've had less success, but we look good when compared to our neighbour. What I have found depressing with the youth today, is how ill prepared they are to enter the world upon graduation from high school. The fear factor in regards to the dangers (however overblown they may be), and the government taking the power of raising kids away from the parents without sufficient alternatives for the parents, seems to have created a pampered, immature, poorly prepared generation ready to enter the world. I am generalizing so don't get too upset. Apart from my niece I don't find the youth rude or disrespectful, but I am shocked at their level of indifference to anything going on in the world. The age of demonstrations whether it be civil rights, wars, pro pot etc etc seemed to have disappeared for the most part, and regardless of how deluded the youth might have seemed especially during the sixties, and much of the seventies, at least they cared.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Just to say it's hoboh's generation that made the major initial advances in gay rights, and women's rights and anti-racism... Opposed tooth and nail by the same generation of your party of whom hoboh is a worthy rep... enjoy your lots history...

I have always been proud to call myself a social liberal.

Of course Hoboh's generation were, by definition, responsible for the progress made in their lifetime.

It's true that the Conservative Party has tended to take the conservative, populist line on these issues. I don't deny that - I'm just saying that the large numbers of people who share Hoboh's view of the world will only be diminished by death, not political argument winning the day. And in what sense is Hoboh a representative of the Conservative Party?

This will be the same Conservative Party, of course, who had a Jewish leader and Prime Minister in an age of virulent anti-semitism, and the first elected female head of government in the Western world.

I've said nothing that necessitates a lesson either in history or consistency, thanks.

Not true. So Ok Bandaranaike and Indira Gandhi were not in the Western world, but I cannot see any excuse for ignoring Golda Meir. Israel is certainly part of the Western world, and in many ways claim to be European (they're in the Europe grouping and they've won the Eurovision song contest! with a transvestite!! - you can't get more western than that).

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't think of Turkey and Israel and any of the countries in the Middle East, come to think of it, as being Western, but perhaps you're right and I should have described Thatcher as second or used a term to make it clear that I was only talking about major countries (G33 economies or similar..).

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I don't think of Turkey and Israel and any of the countries in the Middle East, come to think of it, as being Western, but perhaps you're right and I should have described Thatcher as second or used a term to make it clear that I was only talking about major countries (G33 economies or similar..).

Or even third: Isabel Peron was the first elected non-royal female head of state and head of government in the Western Hemisphere.

Edit: and I think you meant G20 not G33. Argentina is a member of the G20 by the by.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't think of Turkey and Israel and any of the countries in the Middle East, come to think of it, as being Western, but perhaps you're right and I should have described Thatcher as second or used a term to make it clear that I was only talking about major countries (G33 economies or similar..).

Or even third: Isabel Peron was the first elected non-royal female head of state and head of government in the Western Hemisphere.

Was she ever elected?