The Politics Thread

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't think of Turkey and Israel and any of the countries in the Middle East, come to think of it, as being Western, but perhaps you're right and I should have described Thatcher as second or used a term to make it clear that I was only talking about major countries (G33 economies or similar..).

Or even third: Isabel Peron was the first elected non-royal female head of state and head of government in the Western Hemisphere.

Edit: and I think you meant G20 not G33. Argentina is a member of the G20 by the by.

No, I deliberately said G33 to cast the net a bit wider.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I don't think of Turkey and Israel and any of the countries in the Middle East, come to think of it, as being Western, but perhaps you're right and I should have described Thatcher as second or used a term to make it clear that I was only talking about major countries (G33 economies or similar..).

Or even third: Isabel Peron was the first elected non-royal female head of state and head of government in the Western Hemisphere.

Was she ever elected?

Yup 1974. Elected as Prime Minister. She was also appointed as head of state (President) in the same period.

Ok. I thought the G33 was a coterie of developing nations (I might be wrong).

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't think of Turkey and Israel and any of the countries in the Middle East, come to think of it, as being Western, but perhaps you're right and I should have described Thatcher as second or used a term to make it clear that I was only talking about major countries (G33 economies or similar..).

Or even third: Isabel Peron was the first elected non-royal female head of state and head of government in the Western Hemisphere.

Was she ever elected?

Yup 1974. Elected as Prime Minister. She was also appointed as head of state (President) in the same period.

Ok. I thought the G33 was a coterie of developing nations (I might be wrong).

Are you sure? Firstly I didn't think they had a Prime Minister, as such. And secondly, I thought she was shunted into the Presidency without an election on the death of her husband?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G33_(indus ... _countries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I don't think of Turkey and Israel and any of the countries in the Middle East, come to think of it, as being Western, but perhaps you're right and I should have described Thatcher as second or used a term to make it clear that I was only talking about major countries (G33 economies or similar..).

Or even third: Isabel Peron was the first elected non-royal female head of state and head of government in the Western Hemisphere.

Was she ever elected?

Yup 1974. Elected as Prime Minister. She was also appointed as head of state (President) in the same period.

Ok. I thought the G33 was a coterie of developing nations (I might be wrong).

Are you sure? Firstly I didn't think they had a Prime Minister, as such. And secondly, I thought she was shunted into the Presidency without an election on the death of her husband?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G33_(indus ... _countries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

I'm pretty sure. She was de facto head of state during her husband's last year as he deteriorated, and on his death she became President de jure. Throughout the entire period of the Peronista regime they still held elections (whether you can trust the outcome is an entirely other debate) and one of the positions that was directly elected was the equivalent of Prime Minister. I'll look up the exact title in my book of World Statesmen tonight (it obviously being in Spanish). After being appointed President and Head of State she subsequently won the election for Prime Minister with an (unbelievable?) overwhelming majority. [I'm not claiming that Argentina was a paragon of democracy in the Peronista era, or indeed today, but they did hold elections].

[Lost Leopard Spot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G33_(indus ... _countries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

I counter your "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G33_(indus ... countries)" with a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G33_(developing_countries) (just to show you from where my confusion arose, not to argue against your list!)

[thebish]

don't we all love a good wiki argument!!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

don't we all love a good wiki argument!!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

don't we all love a good wiki argument!!

Sadly this is one of times when Wiki does not go into enough detail to answer the question.

Either way it seems pretty obvious to me that she assumed office in a fairly dynastical way as wife of the fecking President!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

don't we all love a good wiki argument!!

Sadly this is one of times when Wiki does not go into enough detail to answer the question.

Either way it seems pretty obvious to me that she assumed office in a fairly dynastical way as wife of the fecking President!

She did. I'm not disputing that.

[thebish]

Sri Lanka is in LLS's G33 list...

so - Sirimavo Bandaranaike

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Sri Lanka is in LLS's G33 list...

so - Sirimavo Bandaranaike

I'd already cast her and Indira out of the race... too sub-continental both of them. But I'm still sticking with Golda Meir (leader of a nation that wins the Eurovision with a transvestite, and has an atom bomb, has got to be Western*) and Isabela Peron (I know she was wife of a dictator and was appointed on that basis and that basis alone and doesn't really deserve to be thought of as being leader of a democratic country but PB's citerion was 'elected', so she squeezes in).

*and she was definitely elected, so the only criterion you can remove her for non-qualification is female. And to be brutally honest I had my doubts at the time... but I ain't gainsaying it now, too little evidence to overturn history.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Ok... this has got out of hand as always. My view is that Thatcher was a significant first in terms of being a woman elected to lead a major country.

Can you come up with a form of words that expresses this properly, please?!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Ok... this has got out of hand as always. My view is that Thatcher was a significant first in terms of being a woman elected to lead a major country.

Can you come up with a form of words that expresses this properly, please?!

We could agree on "Margaret Thatcher, one of the first democratically elected female Prime Ministers in the World" ... that would adequately sum up what you're wanting out of her whilst pandering to my nitpicking argumentative side.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Ok... this has got out of hand as always. My view is that Thatcher was a significant first in terms of being a woman elected to lead a major country.

Can you come up with a form of words that expresses this properly, please?!

We could agree on "Margaret Thatcher, one of the first democratically elected female Prime Ministers in the World" ... that would adequately sum up what you're wanting out of her whilst pandering to my nitpicking argumentative side.

I"d like to make a stronger claim about her being 'first' - I want some way of expressing 'major country' that you'll be happy with!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Ok... this has got out of hand as always. My view is that Thatcher was a significant first in terms of being a woman elected to lead a major country.

Can you come up with a form of words that expresses this properly, please?!

We could agree on "Margaret Thatcher, one of the first democratically elected female Prime Ministers in the World" ... that would adequately sum up what you're wanting out of her whilst pandering to my nitpicking argumentative side.

I"d like to make a stronger claim about her being 'first' - I want some way of expressing 'major country' that you'll be happy with!

You see this is where it gets awkward, not to say impossible, because you're going to run foul of major country with India, run foul of European with Israel, or Western with Israel and Argentina, or run foul of First without Sri Lanka. And to start trying to get Thatcher as first female anything whilst declaring both Bandaranaike and Indira Gandhi out of the equation just 'appears' to be overtly biased. So if I was you, I'd compromise and agree with me that Thatcher was one of the first democratically elected female Prime Ministers in the World.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

You see this is where it gets awkward, not to say impossible, because you're going to run foul of major country with India, run foul of European with Israel, or Western with Israel and Argentina, or run foul of First without Sri Lanka. And to start trying to get Thatcher as first female anything whilst declaring both Bandaranaike and Indira Gandhi out of the equation just 'appears' to be overtly biased. So if I was you, I'd compromise and agree with me that Thatcher was one of the first democratically elected female Prime Ministers in the World.

Was India a major economy in the sixties?

I wouldn't say I'm biased - I just think we were trailblazing in terms of major developed economies in being led by an elected woman.

I know I am constantly shifting the goalposts, but I admit that I have not expressed my instinct about how exactly she was first very well.

[thebish]

How about..

Thatcher - first Prime Minister in the UK to have a full set of lady-bits?

[thebish]

Was India a major economy in the sixties?

to be fair - you did say "major country" two or three posts up in your new proposal - and now you are saying major economy. India WAS a major country in the 1960s - surely - unless you have a very weird definition of "major" when it applies to countries!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

You see this is where it gets awkward, not to say impossible, because you're going to run foul of major country with India, run foul of European with Israel, or Western with Israel and Argentina, or run foul of First without Sri Lanka. And to start trying to get Thatcher as first female anything whilst declaring both Bandaranaike and Indira Gandhi out of the equation just 'appears' to be overtly biased. So if I was you, I'd compromise and agree with me that Thatcher was one of the first democratically elected female Prime Ministers in the World.

Was India a major economy in the sixties?

I wouldn't say I'm biased - I just think we were trailblazing in terms of major developed economies in being led by an elected woman.

I know I am constantly shifting the goalposts, but I admit that I have not expressed my instinct about how exactly she was first very well.

I'm failing to understand why you need her to be first to demonstrate your point. Surely her being amongst the first is good enough is it not?
Whether India was a greater or a lesser economy than ours in the 60s is outside of my scope of knowledge, though I suspect by the sheer number of people inhabiting it that it would be by any definition a 'major' economy. I have no doubt however that it was (in the 60s) as it still remains, the largest democracy on the planet.
Let's face it PB, Thatcher was not the first female PM either elected or not, nor of a major democracy, nor of a western nation.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

How about..

Thatcher - first Prime Minister in the UK to have a full set of lady-bits?

Apart from the physog surely? her face was full of manly bits, and I don't mean Dennis's neither.