Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[CAPSLOCK]

Oh dear

[SmokinFrazier]

Meh. BWFCi is right. Yon SF is a shite-talking fanboy. He keeps claiming fecking Obi Mikel as some sort of tactical genius.

'Worked within football'. Either an ex-pro in there on name, or he means researcher for FM/manager of St.Paul's under 9s got a rejection letter off Steve Gibson after applying for the Boro job having won the Champions League with Torquay.

Now I'm all for discussing tactics on here, I find it quite interesting, but the 'let's use words I've read of the internet and mention how I'm an insider and talk wank about wide-players so I can status-f*ck people into thinking I'm ace' is just stupid.

I've done coaching to a decent level. I don't say that to indicate that I know what I'm on about when talking in-depth tactics, I don't, but I have been around, and coached by, folk who do, and I can recognise when folk know what they're on about (mainly coz I start nodding my head thinking 'ohh yeahh'). The last fellow on here to genuinely know what he was on about when he talked about 'tactics' was a bald fella named after a takeaway snack. Since he's been away for a while, we should defo all wade in with our six-penneth worth, but let's not start self-aggrandising condescending shite. It's one's opinion on what we should be doing against another. Disagree, yes, strongly, yes, but don't start making vague allusions to qualifications you haven't got.

BWFCi may change his opinion *occasionally* (looool) and may sometimes talk pish, but I don't think he is one for trying to lord over folk as if he knows more. He'll post a lot, and reply to a lot, and go into detail a lot, but it tends to be a proper debate. SF keeps trying the lord it over I'm cleverer than you stuff (which is a shame, because there's a lot he posts that is in-depth, but IMO, wrong, that I'd like to go into, but cba).

PS. I'm self aware enough to know I started this with a 'he's a fanboy talking shite'; however, a)I'm drunk, and b) it's my version of bish's only picking on the picker-oners, so ner.

I didn't once say that I know more than anyone on here. In fact, I actually said the opposite and admitted that I could be wrong with what I said. I think I'm right and I think BWFCi is wrong, of course, but so what? It's a forum. I disagreed with him but I have no ill feeling towards him. He seems like a decent lad, and if he's right and I'm wrong, I'm not bothered. Maybe he knows more about football than I do, I don't know. It was just a debate and, honestly, I'm surprised at how much of an issue it caused.

By the way, I didn't mention being involved in football to "lord it over" anyone. BWFi claimed I didn't know what I was on about, so to discredit me, he said I was just a kid who plays Football Manager or whatever. I wasn't boasting, and I wouldn't either, I was just pointing out that he was ill informed.

I have disagreed with plenty of people on here but I've never once said anything like "I know about football than you", so to say that I have is nonsense. I didn't bring credentials (:lol:) into it either, BWFCi did when he was being arrogant by dismissing my opinion and, as you said, "lording it over" me.

Either way, it's a ridiculously petty, childish argument. If I'm wrong, I don't mind, and if I'm right, I'm not going to say "I told you so!". We all want what is best for the club, it's just that some of us know far more than others do...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I wasn't boasting, and I wouldn't either

I'm not asking you to boast - just genuinely interested in what your football background is.

[SmokinFrazier]

I wasn't boasting, and I wouldn't either

I'm not asking you to boast - just genuinely interested in what your football background is.

Oh, I've started getting my coaching badges. The next step will be a basic UEFA qualification, but I know I'm a long way away from being an expert on the game. I just mentioned it because BWFCi disparagingly mentioned I'd only ever played football games.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I wasn't boasting, and I wouldn't either

I'm not asking you to boast - just genuinely interested in what your football background is.

Oh, I've started getting my coaching badges. The next step will be a basic UEFA qualification, but I know I'm a long way away from being an expert on the game. I just mentioned it because BWFCi disparagingly mentioned I'd only ever played football games.

What spurred you into getting into all that? Were you already involved in coaching?

We've had a few on here who have done it at some level, and they have all found it fascinating.

Come to think of it, where has the poster known as Kebab got to?

[boltonboris]

Kebab was a bit pissed off with a thread in which racist language was used. He said he was taking a sabbatical, but never returned. He posts on twitter though and having met him, can say he's a decent bloke.

He was the manager for a semi pro outfit (St.Albans?!).

[Prufrock]

Kebab was a bit pissed off with a thread in which racist language was used. He said he was taking a sabbatical, but never returned. He posts on twitter though and having met him, can say he's a decent bloke.

He was the manager for a semi pro outfit (St.Albans?!).

He was assitant rather than maanger, I think? Before quitting to set up his own coaching business. All IIRC. I kept meaning to go up to watch his team when he was still there (can't remember whether it was St. Albans or Colney Heath, but it was in that area).

[Prufrock]

I didn't once say that I know more than anyone on here. In fact, I actually said the opposite and admitted that I could be wrong with what I said. I think I'm right and I think BWFCi is wrong, of course, but so what? It's a forum. I disagreed with him but I have no ill feeling towards him. He seems like a decent lad, and if he's right and I'm wrong, I'm not bothered. Maybe he knows more about football than I do, I don't know. It was just a debate and, honestly, I'm surprised at how much of an issue it caused.

By the way, I didn't mention being involved in football to "lord it over" anyone. BWFi claimed I didn't know what I was on about, so to discredit me, he said I was just a kid who plays Football Manager or whatever. I wasn't boasting, and I wouldn't either, I was just pointing out that he was ill informed.

I have disagreed with plenty of people on here but I've never once said anything like "I know about football than you", so to say that I have is nonsense. I didn't bring credentials (:lol:) into it either, BWFCi did when he was being arrogant by dismissing my opinion and, as you said, "lording it over" me.

Either way, it's a ridiculously petty, childish argument. If I'm wrong, I don't mind, and if I'm right, I'm not going to say "I told you so!". We all want what is best for the club, it's just that some of us know far more than others do...

Oh, I've started getting my coaching badges. The next step will be a basic UEFA qualification, but I know I'm a long way away from being an expert on the game. I just mentioned it because BWFCi disparagingly mentioned I'd only ever played football games.

Fair enough. There seemed to be a lot of 'anyone who understood the game' going on, and I'm always wary of anyone who mentions badges when it comes to tactics, as unless you are far along the badges are irrelevant 'tactically'. Plus I was a bit pissed .

What level are you actually at currently?

[Gary the Enfield]

Kebab was a bit pissed off with a thread in which racist language was used. He said he was taking a sabbatical, but never returned. He posts on twitter though and having met him, can say he's a decent bloke.

He was the manager for a semi pro outfit (St.Albans?!).

He was assitant rather than maanger, I think? Before quitting to set up his own coaching business. All IIRC. I kept meaning to go up to watch his team when he was still there (can't remember whether it was St. Albans or Colney Heath, but it was in that area).

I met him at Spurs for the rearranged FA cup game last year. Knows the game, certainly. I found myself nodding a lot at his reading of the game.

[Bruce Rioja]

Knows the game, certainly. I found myself nodding a lot at his reading of the game.

Oh, so he knows feck all then?!

[SmokinFrazier]

What spurred you into getting into all that? Were you already involved in coaching?

We've had a few on here who have done it at some level, and they have all found it fascinating.

Come to think of it, where has the poster known as Kebab got to?

I had a mate who went off to America to do some coaching, so after talking to him, I thought it'd be a good thing to get into. I'd love the opportunity to coach overseas, especially at an undeveloped level, so that's my ambition, and hopefully I can make it happen.

I enjoy it, but then I enjoy the tactical side of every sport more than just the physicality. Different strategies interest me, whether it's football, cricket, boxing, rugby or whatever. I guess I'm pretty boring with that

[Hoboh]

Keep telling you lot freedman is a mid table championship manager but hey ho lets give him time we might get two or three wins on the trot one day!

[SmokinFrazier]

I don't think Freedman is a good manager at all. He hasn't progressed the club in the time he's been here and I see no signs of him really doing anything positive. The Derby side was a mess, especially defensively, and they were without their best player, Will Hughes. They aren't even in good form either, so that should have been 3 points. It wasn't, it was another negative performance in a game we could have lost.

It's fair to point out that Freedman hasn't been a disaster for us but the positives are very hard to find. I don't sense any excitement or positivity about the direction we're heading in, I just a lifeless team being managed by a dull manager who is incapable of inserting some passion and desire into the squad. In another thread, people were saying "Freedman will have the summer to regroup, bring in new players and we'll try again next year" but this all seems so negative to me, and I can just imagine that "maybe next year" mentality for a long time, especially under the reign of someone like Freedman, who is neither good enough to get us promoted or bad enough to get sacked. I just fear a huge period of stagnation under him.

If someone had said that we'd still be playing awful football and still be 17th at this stage of the season, I wouldn't have been so enthusiastic about getting rid of Coyle. I really don't think there's much between him and Freedman as managers. Freedman talks a better game but seems incapable of making that translate onto the pitch, so for all the neat buzzwords about "science" and "philosophy", it's all worthless.

I'm probably quite harsh on Freedman, and I'd like nothing more to be holding my hands up, saying "I was wrong". I just don't see it though. I think we've employed an overrated manager, who had a big impact at his former club because of his status there, in a similar way to the boost we had in the early days of Coyle's career at Bolton. I think we're stuck in a miserable situation and I don't think Freedman is capable of turning that around.

Purely hypothetical, of course, but if I was offered the option of Freedman going tomorrow, I'd take it because I don't sense any significant progress is on the horizon. If we did get rid and brought in someone like Adkins, I'd be far more optimistic than I am now. I'd be looking forward to summer, wondering what a good manager can do for us but instead, I fear that Freedman will strip us of the quality we have and replace those players, like Mark Davies and Chungy, with hard workers who 'know the league'.

By the way, in the past few years, the established Premier League clubs who didn't go straight back up after relegation, haven't seen a quick turnaround either. Boro were an established club and went down 5 years ago. Birmingham were too, and have shown no signs of going back up. Pompey were another. Charlton were another. The signs suggest that if you don't go straight back up, it's not likely you'll go up the next year...or year after. Look at much bigger clubs than ours, like Leeds or Wednesday. That immediate promotion is a big deal and if you don't go straight back up, what's happened in recent years suggests that you shouldn't hold your breath.

[Hoboh]

Phil Gartside, Bolton chairman: "When I appointed Gary Megson, I got a bloke who can battle in situations when his back is against the wall, when he's getting muck and bullets thrown at him from here, there and everywhere. I didn't want a man who'd crumble when people criticised him, I wanted someone with bottle and spirit, and that's exactly what I've got in Gary."

Substitute Freedman and boosh you got the first football manager clone! (and a good insight as to what a complete utter tool Gartside really is)

[Gary the Enfield]

Knows the game, certainly. I found myself nodding a lot at his reading of the game.

Oh, so he knows feck all then?!

What I meant was it was like listening to a proper commentary with him describing why something was happening and how such and such was exactly where he needed to be at a certain phase of the game. Genuinely enthusiastic about the game and good company.

Unlike some.

[chester white]

I don't think Freedman is a good manager at all. He hasn't progressed the club in the time he's been here and I see no signs of him really doing anything positive. The Derby side was a mess, especially defensively, and they were without their best player, Will Hughes. They aren't even in good form either, so that should have been 3 points. It wasn't, it was another negative performance in a game we could have lost.

It's fair to point out that Freedman hasn't been a disaster for us but the positives are very hard to find. I don't sense any excitement or positivity about the direction we're heading in, I just a lifeless team being managed by a dull manager who is incapable of inserting some passion and desire into the squad. In another thread, people were saying "Freedman will have the summer to regroup, bring in new players and we'll try again next year" but this all seems so negative to me, and I can just imagine that "maybe next year" mentality for a long time, especially under the reign of someone like Freedman, who is neither good enough to get us promoted or bad enough to get sacked. I just fear a huge period of stagnation under him.

If someone had said that we'd still be playing awful football and still be 17th at this stage of the season, I wouldn't have been so enthusiastic about getting rid of Coyle. I really don't think there's much between him and Freedman as managers. Freedman talks a better game but seems incapable of making that translate onto the pitch, so for all the neat buzzwords about "science" and "philosophy", it's all worthless.

I'm probably quite harsh on Freedman, and I'd like nothing more to be holding my hands up, saying "I was wrong". I just don't see it though. I think we've employed an overrated manager, who had a big impact at his former club because of his status there, in a similar way to the boost we had in the early days of Coyle's career at Bolton. I think we're stuck in a miserable situation and I don't think Freedman is capable of turning that around.

Purely hypothetical, of course, but if I was offered the option of Freedman going tomorrow, I'd take it because I don't sense any significant progress is on the horizon. If we did get rid and brought in someone like Adkins, I'd be far more optimistic than I am now. I'd be looking forward to summer, wondering what a good manager can do for us but instead, I fear that Freedman will strip us of the quality we have and replace those players, like Mark Davies and Chungy, with hard workers who 'know the league'.

By the way, in the past few years, the established Premier League clubs who didn't go straight back up after relegation, haven't seen a quick turnaround either. Boro were an established club and went down 5 years ago. Birmingham were too, and have shown no signs of going back up. Pompey were another. Charlton were another. The signs suggest that if you don't go straight back up, it's not likely you'll go up the next year...or year after. Look at much bigger clubs than ours, like Leeds or Wednesday. That immediate promotion is a big deal and if you don't go straight back up, what's happened in recent years suggests that you shouldn't hold your breath.

I think you underestimate the mess Coyle left us in. From various sources an unfit, unprofessional outfit with a losing mentality.

That's not to say I'm totally happy with the way things are going at the moment, of course I would like to have seen a quicker up turn in form, and there are things I'd do differently to Dougie. But I look at the likes of Alonso and Sordell, who look like different players under Freedman, and the positive impact his signings like Dawson and Craig Davies have had, and see reasons for being cautiously optimistic.

I went last night and whilst we weren't brilliant, we were one individual error away from a classic smash and grab away performance that we used to eulogise over in the Big Sam days. I saw our defenders throwing themselves at the ball and the midfield with some shape trying to win the ball back with structure. Keep the faith, for now.

[BWFC_Insane]

Personally I think we have quite a few players who either haven't really got their mental state right for this division or are probably paid too much for what they offer the club.

I don't think what is happening to us is that rare for a relegated long term premiership side. In fact it's the norm sadly. Which is why we desperately needed to avoid going down in the first place.

What we've ended up with is a squad that on paper looks a good one for the division. However, in reality we've got some players who seemingly haven't adjusted to the division, some who perhaps are paid too much money for what they offer us, some who possibly don't care either way, some who maybe feel disenfranchised as the fans have targeted them, and some coming to the ends of their careers who probably don't want to go out in this manner.

It's a whole melting pot of things going on that contribute to it.

Once you've come down that is always the risk.

Now I didn't go yesterday but what rings alarm bells is that Phil Brown with 15 minutes to go was saying what a professional away performance it was and how our shape and setup was "perfect" and how well we'd played through the core of the team. It was exactly the sort of stuff you'd want to hear given how weak through that we've been.

But one mistake costs us - again. And yes Derby built pressure. But we have to see out those periods. It's impossible to do well if constantly you are defending well, set up well but one player switches off every time for a goal.

Our last promotion winning season was founded upon two things 1) A striker (who often didn't start) who banged goals in and 2) The ability to sit behind the ball and ride out pressure and not concede.

I mean for the largest part of the play-off final we were on the back foot, but we didn't concede and ended up winning 3-0. In a game we were definitely hanging on in for the most part.

It concerns me that we are still 4 points away from the drop zone. And I don't think it's anything to be dismissive of. We are in danger. And once again the rub of the green does not favour us. At 1-1 last night it sounded like we had two efforts cleared off the line and a third great chance that Spearing mis-kicked.

I remember a Palace fan saying when Freedman came here "I don't know why he's gone there, they are in a downward spiral and are being sucked further and further down rapidly".

At the time I thought we just needed some direction to start climbing again. The direction is definitely there as Phil Brown said last night. But as the team organisation improves the individual errors come out.

We are in a maelstrom a force sucking us under.

And whether Freedman is good, bad or indifferent, right now matters little.

What we need to do is get down to the Reebok for Saturday and Tuesday and cheer not jeer. Back not boo. We are in danger of the ultimate humiliation. The dreaded double relegation.

And I fear if we lose to Hull and Peterborough (Which is certainly in the realms of possibility) that it probably will happen.

Lets get behind em, cheer em, make a fecking noise like never before. Because this, frankly is bigger than Madrid, Munich or anything else like that.

If we can't do that now, then really we don't deserve anything more.......

[89bwfc89]

Personally I think we have quite a few players who either haven't really got their mental state right for this division or are probably paid too much for what they offer the club.

I don't think what is happening to us is that rare for a relegated long term premiership side. In fact it's the norm sadly. Which is why we desperately needed to avoid going down in the first place.

What we've ended up with is a squad that on paper looks a good one for the division. However, in reality we've got some players who seemingly haven't adjusted to the division, some who perhaps are paid too much money for what they offer us, some who possibly don't care either way, some who maybe feel disenfranchised as the fans have targeted them, and some coming to the ends of their careers who probably don't want to go out in this manner.

It's a whole melting pot of things going on that contribute to it.

Once you've come down that is always the risk.

Now I didn't go yesterday but what rings alarm bells is that Phil Brown with 15 minutes to go was saying what a professional away performance it was and how our shape and setup was "perfect" and how well we'd played through the core of the team. It was exactly the sort of stuff you'd want to hear given how weak through that we've been.

But one mistake costs us - again. And yes Derby built pressure. But we have to see out those periods. It's impossible to do well if constantly you are defending well, set up well but one player switches off every time for a goal.

Our last promotion winning season was founded upon two things 1) A striker (who often didn't start) who banged goals in and 2) The ability to sit behind the ball and ride out pressure and not concede.

I mean for the largest part of the play-off final we were on the back foot, but we didn't concede and ended up winning 3-0. In a game we were definitely hanging on in for the most part.

It concerns me that we are still 4 points away from the drop zone. And I don't think it's anything to be dismissive of. We are in danger. And once again the rub of the green does not favour us. At 1-1 last night it sounded like we had two efforts cleared off the line and a third great chance that Spearing mis-kicked.

I remember a Palace fan saying when Freedman came here "I don't know why he's gone there, they are in a downward spiral and are being sucked further and further down rapidly".

At the time I thought we just needed some direction to start climbing again. The direction is definitely there as Phil Brown said last night. But as the team organisation improves the individual errors come out.

We are in a maelstrom a force sucking us under.

And whether Freedman is good, bad or indifferent, right now matters little.

What we need to do is get down to the Reebok for Saturday and Tuesday and cheer not jeer. Back not boo. We are in danger of the ultimate humiliation. The dreaded double relegation.

And I fear if we lose to Hull and Peterborough (Which is certainly in the realms of possibility) that it probably will happen.

Lets get behind em, cheer em, make a fecking noise like never before. Because this, frankly is bigger than Madrid, Munich or anything else like that.

If we can't do that now, then really we don't deserve anything more.......

Amen to that!

[ohjimmyjimmy]

There's those that are thinking 'i'm not gonna cheer em cos we shouldnt be down there so they need to show me how much they care about getting out of it' and then there's those that are thinking 'we're down there now, let's give the support that'll drag us out of it'

I'm sure we used to do the latter before we got all premier league big time.

[as]

It's not DF's team so I'm not blaming him.

If we're this shít in a years time then he can fúck off though.