Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[BWFC_Insane]

It's also worth looking at the three relegated clubs.

Blackburn are doing the best.

10th. On 44 points.

Having spent 8M on a striker in the summer.

We are 16th on 39 points.

Wolves are 22nd on 35 points.

All three are well short of the promotion that we were tipped to achieve as it stands. And realistically, only Blackburn have the slightest sniff of the play-offs.

[LeverEnd]

I don't think Freedman is a good manager at all. He hasn't progressed the club in the time he's been here and I see no signs of him really doing anything positive. The Derby side was a mess, especially defensively, and they were without their best player, Will Hughes. They aren't even in good form either, so that should have been 3 points. It wasn't, it was another negative performance in a game we could have lost.

It's fair to point out that Freedman hasn't been a disaster for us but the positives are very hard to find. I don't sense any excitement or positivity about the direction we're heading in, I just a lifeless team being managed by a dull manager who is incapable of inserting some passion and desire into the squad. In another thread, people were saying "Freedman will have the summer to regroup, bring in new players and we'll try again next year" but this all seems so negative to me, and I can just imagine that "maybe next year" mentality for a long time, especially under the reign of someone like Freedman, who is neither good enough to get us promoted or bad enough to get sacked. I just fear a huge period of stagnation under him.

If someone had said that we'd still be playing awful football and still be 17th at this stage of the season, I wouldn't have been so enthusiastic about getting rid of Coyle. I really don't think there's much between him and Freedman as managers. Freedman talks a better game but seems incapable of making that translate onto the pitch, so for all the neat buzzwords about "science" and "philosophy", it's all worthless.

I'm probably quite harsh on Freedman, and I'd like nothing more to be holding my hands up, saying "I was wrong". I just don't see it though. I think we've employed an overrated manager, who had a big impact at his former club because of his status there, in a similar way to the boost we had in the early days of Coyle's career at Bolton. I think we're stuck in a miserable situation and I don't think Freedman is capable of turning that around.

Purely hypothetical, of course, but if I was offered the option of Freedman going tomorrow, I'd take it because I don't sense any significant progress is on the horizon. If we did get rid and brought in someone like Adkins, I'd be far more optimistic than I am now. I'd be looking forward to summer, wondering what a good manager can do for us but instead, I fear that Freedman will strip us of the quality we have and replace those players, like Mark Davies and Chungy, with hard workers who 'know the league'.

By the way, in the past few years, the established Premier League clubs who didn't go straight back up after relegation, haven't seen a quick turnaround either. Boro were an established club and went down 5 years ago. Birmingham were too, and have shown no signs of going back up. Pompey were another. Charlton were another. The signs suggest that if you don't go straight back up, it's not likely you'll go up the next year...or year after. Look at much bigger clubs than ours, like Leeds or Wednesday. That immediate promotion is a big deal and if you don't go straight back up, what's happened in recent years suggests that you shouldn't hold your breath.

I'm less and less impressed with him after initially being quite optimistic. However I think Coyle was on the slide for a loogn time with no signs of being able to reverse it, and his 'need another voice' comment showed he'd lost the players' respect. His previous successes were based on going into a struggling club, picking things up and then moving on with a better offer before the going got tough (not a criticism, just fortunate timing.)
Freedman however was thrust into a relegation battle at age 36, won that battle and then improved the club on and off the pitch before joining us.
For that reason I think he's worth persisting with and that he will come good, even if he's making mistakes and not getting results right now.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm less and less impressed with him after initially being quite optimistic. However I think Coyle was on the slide for a loogn time with no signs of being able to reverse it, and his 'need another voice' comment showed he'd lost the players' respect. His previous successes were based on going into a struggling club, picking things up and then moving on with a better offer before the going got tough (not a criticism, just fortunate timing.)
Freedman however was thrust into a relegation battle at age 36, won that battle and then improved the club on and off the pitch before joining us.
For that reason I think he's worth persisting with and that he will come good, even if he's making mistakes and not getting results right now.

Is it mistakes or are we just going through a difficult period where not much is coming off? Sometimes you just have to fight through these difficult times and accept that we're not getting the luck and hope that in the future things will be brighter.

[Bruce Rioja]

Blackburn are doing the best.

10th. On 44 points.

Having spent 8M on a striker in the summer.

On the new Jonathan Stead as I recall you claiming. That'll be the new 20 goals in 27 games Jonathan Stead then?

[BWFC_Insane]

Blackburn are doing the best.

10th. On 44 points.

Having spent 8M on a striker in the summer.

On the new Jonathan Stead as I recall you claiming. That'll be the new 20 goals in 27 games Jonathan Stead then?

Well we'll see. He's done well this season. I still think the test will be what he can score in the top flight, assuming he gets there at some point.

Point being that despite having a squad that came down, and invested 8M quid in it again, they are still mid table and hardly ripping the division apart.

Looks like getting relegated is only the start of the misery.....

[coffeymagic]

I was reading in the BN yesterday how Duggy had 'done his homework' (Chemistry and French) and then later I was reading that Derby were down to the bare bones at the back.

Sadly it now transpires that Doug's dug ate his homework.

I know I keep repeating myself but so does Freedman and so do the results but why can't we exploit the oppositions weeknesses? Can you imagine if we had a defender who'd had a parking fine four weeks ago? The opposition manager would focus on this psychological frailty and use it in his team talk to rip us to shreds.

I'm not annoyed (yet), I'm not angry (yet) I'm just frustrated and fed up and getting more so with every poor performance and every poor result.

[Wandering Willy]

Is it mistakes or are we just going through a difficult period where not much is coming off? Sometimes you just have to fight through these difficult times and accept that we're not getting the luck and hope that in the future things will be brighter.

When people argued that Coyle was getting some bad luck I could have sworn that you said luck had nothing to do with it.

Freedman's as bad as Coyle, not least because of his personnel selections.

We've gone from Captain to Trainee Clueless.

[wanderers_on_tour]

I was reading in the BN yesterday how Duggy had 'done his homework' (Chemistry and French) and then later I was reading that Derby were down to the bare bones at the back.

Sadly it now transpires that Doug's dug ate his homework.

I know I keep repeating myself but so does Freedman and so do the results but why can't we exploit the oppositions weeknesses? Can you imagine if we had a defender who'd had a parking fine four weeks ago? The opposition manager would focus on this psychological frailty and use it in his team talk to rip us to shreds.

I'm not annoyed (yet), I'm not angry (yet) I'm just frustrated and fed up and getting more so with every poor performance and every poor result.

Surely he at least tried to do this with lining up in a more attacking formation (4-4-2) over our usual conservative away set up (4-5-1)??

At the moment (well at least the Forrest game) I enjoy watching us play more under Dougie than I did under Coyle. We look more solid and at least compete for the whole 90. Could we push forward a bit more at times? possibly. However would this leave us more fragile at the back? undoubtedly it would. I think its a bit of a balancing act at the moment whilst Dougie brings in the players he wants and gets used to playing with a full deck (including Kamara, Holden, Wheater and even Mark Davies who looked a tad rusty last Saturday). Ultimately I just want the team to be 2 things; confident and to some degree consistent, with both I feel we should end the season well and push on for promotion next.

Also with all the Freedman bashing everyone seems to be ignoring alot of the positives; the side look alot fitter then they did under Coyle, we're alot more organised at defending set pieces, our defence looks well set and apart from individual errors all seem in synch and overall we had a good transfer window. This season can be summed up as frustrating, but it at least beats last years depression.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

A series of individual errors denotes a lack of repurcussions for having the lapses in concentration to allow such mistakes to happen in the first place ! If there are focus issues then organising the defence is pointless. Fed up of hearing every game 'we defended well but one individual error cost us' - if it were the same individual then fine , drop them, prblem solved. But if they're ALL capable of doing it at any one time for whatever reason....

[boltonboris]

I was reading in the BN yesterday how Duggy had 'done his homework' (Chemistry and French) and then later I was reading that Derby were down to the bare bones at the back.

Sadly it now transpires that Doug's dug ate his homework.

I know I keep repeating myself but so does Freedman and so do the results but why can't we exploit the oppositions weeknesses? Can you imagine if we had a defender who'd had a parking fine four weeks ago? The opposition manager would focus on this psychological frailty and use it in his team talk to rip us to shreds.

I'm not annoyed (yet), I'm not angry (yet) I'm just frustrated and fed up and getting more so with every poor performance and every poor result.

Surely he at least tried to do this with lining up in a more attacking formation (4-4-2) over our usual conservative away set up (4-5-1)??

At the moment (well at least the Forrest game) I enjoy watching us play more under Dougie than I did under Coyle. We look more solid and at least compete for the whole 90. Could we push forward a bit more at times? possibly. However would this leave us more fragile at the back? undoubtedly it would. I think its a bit of a balancing act at the moment whilst Dougie brings in the players he wants and gets used to playing with a full deck (including Kamara, Holden, Wheater and even Mark Davies who looked a tad rusty last Saturday). Ultimately I just want the team to be 2 things; confident and to some degree consistent, with both I feel we should end the season well and push on for promotion next.

Also with all the Freedman bashing everyone seems to be ignoring alot of the positives; the side look alot fitter then they did under Coyle, we're alot more organised at defending set pieces, our defence looks well set and apart from individual errors all seem in synch and overall we had a good transfer window. This season can be summed up as frustrating, but it at least beats last years depression.

Numerous people who went have told me that we played the same formation as previous, but with N'gog down the right.

[chester white]

I was reading in the BN yesterday how Duggy had 'done his homework' (Chemistry and French) and then later I was reading that Derby were down to the bare bones at the back.

Sadly it now transpires that Doug's dug ate his homework.

I know I keep repeating myself but so does Freedman and so do the results but why can't we exploit the oppositions weeknesses? Can you imagine if we had a defender who'd had a parking fine four weeks ago? The opposition manager would focus on this psychological frailty and use it in his team talk to rip us to shreds.

I'm not annoyed (yet), I'm not angry (yet) I'm just frustrated and fed up and getting more so with every poor performance and every poor result.

Surely he at least tried to do this with lining up in a more attacking formation (4-4-2) over our usual conservative away set up (4-5-1)??

At the moment (well at least the Forrest game) I enjoy watching us play more under Dougie than I did under Coyle. We look more solid and at least compete for the whole 90. Could we push forward a bit more at times? possibly. However would this leave us more fragile at the back? undoubtedly it would. I think its a bit of a balancing act at the moment whilst Dougie brings in the players he wants and gets used to playing with a full deck (including Kamara, Holden, Wheater and even Mark Davies who looked a tad rusty last Saturday). Ultimately I just want the team to be 2 things; confident and to some degree consistent, with both I feel we should end the season well and push on for promotion next.

Also with all the Freedman bashing everyone seems to be ignoring alot of the positives; the side look alot fitter then they did under Coyle, we're alot more organised at defending set pieces, our defence looks well set and apart from individual errors all seem in synch and overall we had a good transfer window. This season can be summed up as frustrating, but it at least beats last years depression.

Numerous people who went have told me that we played the same formation as previous, but with N'gog down the right.

I know it's not you Boris but that's not true. N'Gog was definitely not on the right. There could be an argument for saying we went 4-5-1 without the ball, with one of the main strikers working back, but it was definitely Eagles and Lee on the wings.

[Wandering Willy]

NGog might be miles to the right of Bolton shortly

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Kiev.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jaffka]

NGog might be miles to the right of Bolton shortly

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Kiev.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is the first bit of transfer gossip so you should open up the new transfer thread

[gavlat2872]

NGog might be miles to the right of Bolton shortly

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Kiev.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

just read the article, im not bothered either way to be honest.

I was over the moon when we signed him as i thought Liverpools lack of first team games was hindering his development, but since we signed him he hasn't impressed me that much.

Dont get me wrong, hes a great impact sub, but am i right in thinking hes one of the highest earners? if so, lets take the money and give DF some funds for summer

[chester white]

And whether Freedman is good, bad or indifferent, right now matters little.

I get what you're saying about the overall mood at the club and the frustrating scenario we're in, but a managers job isn't just to give strategical instructions. It's their job to boost morale and get the best out of the players they have, which is something Freedman has failed at. If the players are mentally down, why? And more to the point, why hasn't this changed all season?

It's very, very poor man management at the least. We can talk all day about tactics and everything like that, but if the players aren't up for it, it's a tough task with even the best strategy. We didn't have that usual 'honeymoon period' new managers typically have, and under Freedman, we've continued to look like the same dispirited bunch that we had with Coyle. That is something Freedman is responsible for, and he simply hasn't changed it. We shouldn't still have the mentality that we had under Coyle, appointing Freedman should have been a fresh start but it wasn't.

Blackburn fans had this same problem under Berg, Wolves fans had it with Solbakken, and they've got it again with Saunders. These managers haven't inserted the right mentality within the club, so nothing has changed. I remember when Coyle was sacked, there were debates about a new manager and I said a number of times that we need someone who could bring a positive atmosphere with them. I know he wasn't available then, but Adkins, for example, would bring a brilliant mood to the club and that alone would result in positivity. I can imagine him getting the best out of the players, but I can't see Freedman doing the same thing. He's dour and uninspiring, which isn't what we needed to get that improvement in the atmosphere.

We really needed that immediate boost, similar to what Coyle brought with him when he first came. I think if we'd have had that, we'd be in the promotion spots right now. Freedman has proved incapable of doing that though, so for all his failings on the pitch, I think he should be equally criticised for not changing the mentality off it.

Disagree with the end bit. The initial honeymoon under Coyle meant the majority of the support seemed to sleep their way through our obvious demise until it was too late, and next thing we knew we were out of the Prem and 18th in the Championship. With the state of our finances I think we needed someone for the long term. Dougie appears to be that sort of appointment, though whether he will be the right man time will tell. I'm not ready to write him off yet.

[Prufrock]

And whether Freedman is good, bad or indifferent, right now matters little.

I get what you're saying about the overall mood at the club and the frustrating scenario we're in, but a managers job isn't just to give strategical instructions. It's their job to boost morale and get the best out of the players they have, which is something Freedman has failed at. If the players are mentally down, why? And more to the point, why hasn't this changed all season?

It's very, very poor man management at the least. We can talk all day about tactics and everything like that, but if the players aren't up for it, it's a tough task with even the best strategy. We didn't have that usual 'honeymoon period' new managers typically have, and under Freedman, we've continued to look like the same dispirited bunch that we had with Coyle. That is something Freedman is responsible for, and he simply hasn't changed it. We shouldn't still have the mentality that we had under Coyle, appointing Freedman should have been a fresh start but it wasn't.

Blackburn fans had this same problem under Berg, Wolves fans had it with Solbakken, and they've got it again with Saunders. These managers haven't inserted the right mentality within the club, so nothing has changed. I remember when Coyle was sacked, there were debates about a new manager and I said a number of times that we need someone who could bring a positive atmosphere with them. I know he wasn't available then, but Adkins, for example, would bring a brilliant mood to the club and that alone would result in positivity. I can imagine him getting the best out of the players, but I can't see Freedman doing the same thing. He's dour and uninspiring, which isn't what we needed to get that improvement in the atmosphere.

We really needed that immediate boost, similar to what Coyle brought with him when he first came. I think if we'd have had that, we'd be in the promotion spots right now. Freedman has proved incapable of doing that though, so for all his failings on the pitch, I think he should be equally criticised for not changing the mentality off it.

You sound like Sammy Lee.

What evidence do you have that the players are mentaly down? Individual mistakes are not the same thing as poor morale. Everything I have read from the players suggests they are enjoying training, and think its leading to an improvement. You seem to be suggesting if they just rocked up with a positive attitude we'd piss the league. THere is normally another team on the pitch you know!

[bobo the clown]

The Cptn. left Dougie with a real mess. It's proven now that DF isn't able to turn the tanker round quick-sticks.

Would anyone ever have been abled ? We'll never know, but there does seem to be a lack of real, dig-in, determination in this bunch.

[SmokinFrazier]

And whether Freedman is good, bad or indifferent, right now matters little.

I get what you're saying about the overall mood at the club and the frustrating scenario we're in, but a managers job isn't just to give strategical instructions. It's their job to boost morale and get the best out of the players they have, which is something Freedman has failed at. If the players are mentally down, why? And more to the point, why hasn't this changed all season?

It's very, very poor man management at the least. We can talk all day about tactics and everything like that, but if the players aren't up for it, it's a tough task with even the best strategy. We didn't have that usual 'honeymoon period' new managers typically have, and under Freedman, we've continued to look like the same dispirited bunch that we had with Coyle. That is something Freedman is responsible for, and he simply hasn't changed it. We shouldn't still have the mentality that we had under Coyle, appointing Freedman should have been a fresh start but it wasn't.

Blackburn fans had this same problem under Berg, Wolves fans had it with Solbakken, and they've got it again with Saunders. These managers haven't inserted the right mentality within the club, so nothing has changed. I remember when Coyle was sacked, there were debates about a new manager and I said a number of times that we need someone who could bring a positive atmosphere with them. I know he wasn't available then, but Adkins, for example, would bring a brilliant mood to the club and that alone would result in positivity. I can imagine him getting the best out of the players, but I can't see Freedman doing the same thing. He's dour and uninspiring, which isn't what we needed to get that improvement in the atmosphere.

We really needed that immediate boost, similar to what Coyle brought with him when he first came. I think if we'd have had that, we'd be in the promotion spots right now. Freedman has proved incapable of doing that though, so for all his failings on the pitch, I think he should be equally criticised for not changing the mentality off it.

[Enoch]

THere is normally another team on the pitch you know!

How refreshing for that detail to be acknowledged. Makes a change from the musings of Mystic Meg.

[BWFC_Insane]

I can't go along with the thinking that a quick lift would help. We've been going with patches and quick fixes since Allardyce left.

Dougie may well not be the answer.

But I'd prefer someone with a long term plan even if it doesn't come together immediately than another snake oil salesman like Coyle,

In fact I'm not sure it is possible to do much more harm to a club than Coyle did to us,

So suggesting a repeat of that really, really doesn't appeal!