The Politics Thread

[mrkint]

Typical Little Englander

Proud of my roots, dont want to pretend I'm some sort of cosmopolitan whizz kid on a European love in. Some of us remember the treachery of our partners in this so called club of equals, you know the ones busy selling exocets and still shipping them while the Junta was sinking our ships. if I wanted to be in the club I'd have joined the Commies brother!

Alright, Paisley, calm down.

[BWFC_Insane]

Typical Little Englander

Proud of my roots, dont want to pretend I'm some sort of cosmopolitan whizz kid on a European love in. Some of us remember the treachery of our partners in this so called club of equals, you know the ones busy selling exocets and still shipping them while the Junta was sinking our ships. if I wanted to be in the club I'd have joined the Commies brother!

You're very happy to use history to support your ideas.

What about the mess we made say in India or the Middle East? You can surely understand why a lot of Muslims are anti-Britain and anti-America, in the same way you are anti-Europe.

I don't think many countries have an unblemished history least of all the UK. But the Europe argument is surely a financial one, not a historical alleigance one, or a nationalistic one?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The devalued pound is obviously not good news for living standards, but could there be a growth silver lining?

Our exports become more price competitive abroad and as do our home-produced products and services in relation to foreign alternatives.

Or is this all eaten up in the higher prices we face for commodities etc, Athers?

There's one thing it's not good for and that's the Tory vote. There are, apparently, nearly a million Brits living abroad of which a fair few have the vote and utilise it. Their number one concern is the exchange rate. A fickle lot are your 'poor' ex-pats, they lash out in anger when stung, and if the fall in the pound continues it will add up to another half point swing against the Tories [this is according to a friend who works for NatCen - a survey and polling organisation]

A bit harsh IMO. Expats that have to send money back regularly for mortgages etc will obviously keep an eye on the rates. That said, a lot of us bank offshore and use a variety of currencies. I couldn't give a rats about GBP right now. The currency here is linked to US Dollars, so savings are kept as such. There are sensible strategies available to expats to move move between currencies and minimise cost and risk.

The biggest concern as a 'temporary expat' is tax. You can bet the politicians are already planning to get their hands on money earnt by non-residents. As an expat they do nothing to earn any tax. Any service that I might require from time to time, such as passport renewal, is done at such extortionate rates they likely make a nice profit. They like to point out embassies are for our benefit, but trust me, they do nothing for us. They are there purely for political and business interests.

As for voting from here, I wont be bothering. The choice is basically the least worst, with the least worst being more or less as bad as the others. I might change my mind if they try coming after me for tax mind

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Typical Little Englander

Proud of my roots, dont want to pretend I'm some sort of cosmopolitan whizz kid on a European love in. Some of us remember the treachery of our partners in this so called club of equals, you know the ones busy selling exocets and still shipping them while the Junta was sinking our ships. if I wanted to be in the club I'd have joined the Commies brother!

You're very happy to use history to support your ideas.

What about the mess we made say in India or the Middle East? You can surely understand why a lot of Muslims are anti-Britain and anti-America, in the same way you are anti-Europe.

I don't think many countries have an unblemished history least of all the UK. But the Europe argument is surely a financial one, not a historical alleigance one, or a nationalistic one?

By far the vast majority of muslims couldn't give a toss about us or the Americans. A tiny tiny proportion that is vocal and/or violent do hate the west. Not much different to intolerance amongst Christians, Jews and just about any other set of people you might come across. The media in the west publishes a lot of ignorant inaccurate shite that is taken as true. There is plenty wrong in the Muslim world, but the same can be said for the western world.

I know your point was more about effect of colonialism, but I felt your statement about Muslims was far too sweeping.

[BWFC_Insane]

Typical Little Englander

Proud of my roots, dont want to pretend I'm some sort of cosmopolitan whizz kid on a European love in. Some of us remember the treachery of our partners in this so called club of equals, you know the ones busy selling exocets and still shipping them while the Junta was sinking our ships. if I wanted to be in the club I'd have joined the Commies brother!

You're very happy to use history to support your ideas.

What about the mess we made say in India or the Middle East? You can surely understand why a lot of Muslims are anti-Britain and anti-America, in the same way you are anti-Europe.

I don't think many countries have an unblemished history least of all the UK. But the Europe argument is surely a financial one, not a historical alleigance one, or a nationalistic one?

By far the vast majority of muslims couldn't give a toss about us or the Americans. A tiny tiny proportion that is vocal and/or violent do hate the west. Not much different to intolerance amongst Christians, Jews and just about any other set of people you might come across. The media in the west publishes a lot of ignorant inaccurate shite that is taken as true. There is plenty wrong in the Muslim world, but the same can be said for the western world.

I know your point was more about effect of colonialism, but I felt your statement about Muslims was far too sweeping.

Ok yeah fair point......

I agree I should have said a small minority.

Point still stands though.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The devalued pound is obviously not good news for living standards, but could there be a growth silver lining?

Our exports become more price competitive abroad and as do our home-produced products and services in relation to foreign alternatives.

Or is this all eaten up in the higher prices we face for commodities etc, Athers?

There's one thing it's not good for and that's the Tory vote. There are, apparently, nearly a million Brits living abroad of which a fair few have the vote and utilise it. Their number one concern is the exchange rate. A fickle lot are your 'poor' ex-pats, they lash out in anger when stung, and if the fall in the pound continues it will add up to another half point swing against the Tories [this is according to a friend who works for NatCen - a survey and polling organisation]

A bit harsh IMO. Expats that have to send money back regularly for mortgages etc will obviously keep an eye on the rates. That said, a lot of us bank offshore and use a variety of currencies. I couldn't give a rats about GBP right now. The currency here is linked to US Dollars, so savings are kept as such. There are sensible strategies available to expats to move move between currencies and minimise cost and risk.

The biggest concern as a 'temporary expat' is tax. You can bet the politicians are already planning to get their hands on money earnt by non-residents. As an expat they do nothing to earn any tax. Any service that I might require from time to time, such as passport renewal, is done at such extortionate rates they likely make a nice profit. They like to point out embassies are for our benefit, but trust me, they do nothing for us. They are there purely for political and business interests.

As for voting from here, I wont be bothering. The choice is basically the least worst, with the least worst being more or less as bad as the others. I might change my mind if they try coming after me for tax mind

ze debate at that point was about Brits abroad but specifically in Europe living on Euros but having benefits/pensions etc paid in pounds. In other words AT a different kind of expat to workers in the gulf for example.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

ze debate at that point was about Brits abroad but specifically in Europe living on Euros but having benefits/pensions etc paid in pounds. In other words AT a different kind of expat to workers in the gulf for example.

Oops didn't read back far enough

In that case, if they didn't take into account varying exchange rates, which I doubt many did, then feck 'em..

[Lost Leopard Spot]

ze debate at that point was about Brits abroad but specifically in Europe living on Euros but having benefits/pensions etc paid in pounds. In other words AT a different kind of expat to workers in the gulf for example.

Oops didn't read back far enough

In that case, if they didn't take into account varying exchange rates, which I doubt many did, then feck 'em..

Oh absolutely.

[thebish]

my own church has been involved in writing this report - which (IMHO) is well worth a read..

The lies we tell ourselves:
ending comfortable myths about poverty

http://www.jointpublicissues.org.uk/wp- ... maller.pdf

[Hoboh]

Interesting report that bish, very. I would take issue with 13 million living in poverty tho', poverty to me means you are unable to afford to feed yourself or keep warm or have decent clothes and somewhere to live. This does not include Sky/Cable TV, Nike etc trainers, six quid a chuck fags or 7 quid for 8 cans of ale whilst living in a house with the rent paid, freebie prescriptions etc yet some of these people claim poverty and clearly it ain't.
I suppose its what definition of Poverty you or the people writing this report chose as the base line, thats mine above, poor? yes there are a lot, poverty? 13 million no way!
I'm sorry but all these are not myths I could take you three streets away and show you some of these who claim poverty and will be happy to explain it to you against the backdrop of fag smoke and the 42" LCD Tv and check out the 'branded' clothing they are wearing. These people are not myths they are as real as you or I.

[thebish]

It is a technical definition - the one the government use.. it makes sense to use that one...

[Hoboh]

It is a technical definition - the one the government use.. it makes sense to use that one...

Oh dear the government definition......

Below is what I understand to be poverty and one reason India with its mass of emerging multi billion companies and billionares will never be a developed nation in the eyes of most of the world.

[Montreal Wanderer]

And this is the UK, Hoboh.

[Hoboh]

And this is the UK, Hoboh.

You'd struggle to find 13 million of those monty besides apart from the homeless one the others should find out what a bin is for!

[BWFC_Insane]

It's always easier to deny things you don't want to admit to, than face the truth.......

[thebish]

It is a technical definition - the one the government use.. it makes sense to use that one...

Oh dear the government definition......

just a pointless argument about words, hoboh. when talking to the govt. it makes sense to use the govt's definition.

if you want all UK comparisons to be made by the standards of the poorest areas of India - then i doubt any political discourse would really work - and your whining about the bins being emptied every two weeks rather than every week would sound pretty fecking lame...

[Hoboh]

I'm sorry but as long as i have a hole in my backside there is no way 13million people are living like that in the UK! Its not words its about facing the truth there are a few people in poverty agreed it is just the vastly over inflated figures that do their cause no good what so ever because frankly to most folk the crdability of such reports fails on numbers like that.
How many do you have round for supper St BWFCi?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm sorry but as long as i have a hole in my backside there is no way 13million people are living like that in the UK! Its not words its about facing the truth there are a few people in poverty agreed it is just the vastly over inflated figures that do their cause no good what so ever because frankly to most folk the crdability of such reports fails on numbers like that.
How many do you have round for supper St BWFCi?

None. But this isn't a cock waving contest either.

You can't solve poverty through charity alone, in face charity merely papers over the cracks (though I'm very much for charity, it's a great thing). But it's another one of those awkward societal things that we either tackle or bury under the carpet. As it is we generally try and ignore it, and those on the right pretend it's not really all that bad, like you are doing. Because it's far easier to talk about people on benefits having 50" TV's cos it suits the destruction of the welfare state agenda far more, than looking at the increasing number of people who are unable to feed their families, or heat their houses, or worse don't have a house.

I would question the report Bish put up in terms of the myth re. generations who haven't worked. I've done some charity work and come across kids who have not had any working role models as parents and grandparents. Whether that stretches across 3 generations, possibly not. But if you've grown up in a house where your parents have never worked then I think that's going to have an impact on you. Some of them actually don't understand the concept of going to work. It's alien to them, that you have to get yourself there at a certain time for example.

There are those problems out there.

But like in America (and there was indeed a documentary about this on the telly box last night) a lot of people who are in poverty are those who have worked, lost their jobs have kids, mortgages and simply cannot financially cope anymore. This is a sadly growing phenomenon in the UK, like in the USA. It's happening to people whether you like it or not.

The question is what to do about it.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Poverty is an international problem even in first world countries. Some stats indicate the UK and USA have a similar percentage of people living below the national poverty line - some 14-15%. Canada has 9% while Ireland is around 5%. Of course, Hoboh will argue they draw the national line in the wrong place - that Ireland and France (6%) draw it lower than the UK. I wonder if we should be proud we are better than Haitians (80%) or if, as members of the human race, we have somehow let the third world down.

[Harry Genshaw]

The Chris Huhne/Vicky Pryce thing has finally reached its denouement but one thing has been bugging me about it all.

Every time the telly shows one of em walking into and out of court there's some chap walking behind with a poster saying something along the lines of "No nukes blah Fukushima blah Huhne & media gagging order"

Whats he on about ?