The Great Art Debate

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Anyway, detail as in willows. Here is a series all painted by Monet and showing development of subject matter.

his first willow painting 1880


painted 1885, three years before Van Gogh painted any willows


painted 1914 well after VVG is dead

My contention would be that the middle one has more characteristics of a 'VVG tree' than the first or last. This would fit my theory better then Verb's.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't even know if VVG painted any willows - as I say, the subject matter isn't critical; it's the treatment.

For the third in that sequence reminds me a bit of VVG's cypress trees (and looser, swirling style more generally).

[TANGODANCER]

No doubt I'll be seriously castigated for putting this in the Art thread, but hey ho....

Not been in Bolton's art gallery for a while. Was strolling around idly this morning - Tom Moran's "Sunset" always worth a look -when I was confronted by "Nev's Kingdom" by Tom Potts. This gave me a real laugh, the legendary "Nev Street" regaler of a thousand tales of cycling round the Lake District (and also everywhere else) whilst he cut your hair. I knew him well because he was apprenticed to Len Hill on Halliwell Road when I was in my teens, took over there, then moved up to Church Road (he may still be there) A few of the Whites players apparently had haircuts there and much fun was made of Ivan Campo going back to Spain for a haircut when he could have gone to "Nevs" instead. Anyway, he's now immortalised in oils and hung in the Town Hall Art Gallery. Good on you Nev.....

[Bruce Rioja]

Didn't he have a place on Eskrick Street, Tango? He possibly didn't but I've got it in mind that that's where my dad dragged me once (it was definitely Neville's though). He thought my hair was too long because it was getting in my eyes (not a condition that troubles me today I might add) so took me for 'a proper bloody haircut'. I remember too the ribbing and the cries of 'Skinhead' etc. that greeted me at school on the Monday.

[TANGODANCER]

Didn't he have a place on Eskrick Street, Tango? He possibly didn't but I've got it in mind that that's where my dad dragged me once (it was definitely Neville's though). He thought my hair was too long because it was getting in my eyes (not a condition that troubles me today I might add) so took me for 'a proper bloody haircut'. I remember too the ribbing and the cries of 'Skinhead' etc. that greeted me at school on the Monday.

Yes Bruce, you're right, he did. Len Hill had a partner, Les Bragg, who had the Eskrick Street salon. When Len packed up Neville worked for Les and later took over the shop before moving up Church Road. When we went to Len's we usually said we'd wait when Neville said "Next". He wasn't exactly your "dedicated follower of fashion".

Edit: You always knew when you were in Nev's; there'd be a bike parked somewhere in the shop. One dedicated cyclist for sure.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

No doubt I'll be seriously castigated for putting this in the Art thread, but hey ho....

No, I don't think so. There's a long artistic tradition of capturing local 'characters' for posterity.

Actually this painting reminds me of one I showed Bobo at the weekend.

This, by one or both of the Pollaiolo brothers, is part of a debate that painters and sculptors used to have about which of painting or sculpture was the superior art form. Sculpors argued that because they could show all sides of an object, that accolade went to them. This was painted to (weakly, in my view) rejoinder that painters could do the same if they used certain tricks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrdom_ ... _Pollaiolo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Of course, today they might think about painting a space with mirrored walls, but there was really such a think as large, clear, cheaply available mirrors until quite recently.

[TANGODANCER]

Was a bit concerned at not seeing any sign of a bike in the "Nev" painting, but I've spotted it. Just beside the brush (in the mirror) there's a photo of him on his drop-handlebar model. Phew, thank goodness for that.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Was a bit concerned at not seeing any sign of a bike in the "Nev" painting, but I've spotted it. Just beside the brush (in the mirror) there's a photo of him on his drop-handlebar model. Phew, thank goodness for that.

Oh dear. That's made me all seasick. Observe closely Monty. Photo of Nev on bike - where is it?
Answer, it is in the main mirror next to the brush, and should be next to his left shoulder. But if you look next to his left shoulder there is just another mirror with no sign of said photo. All very peculiar, and troubling.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I actually really like that painting.

[mrkint]

his hairstyle seems to have changed in the mirror.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I actually really like that painting.

That's no way to criticise! We don't just want opinions, we need reasons man, reasons!

[TANGODANCER]

Was a bit concerned at not seeing any sign of a bike in the "Nev" painting, but I've spotted it. Just beside the brush (in the mirror) there's a photo of him on his drop-handlebar model. Phew, thank goodness for that.

Oh dear. That's made me all seasick. Observe closely Monty. Photo of Nev on bike - where is it?
Answer, it is in the main mirror next to the brush, and should be next to his left shoulder. But if you look next to his left shoulder there is just another mirror with no sign of said photo. All very peculiar, and troubling.

Artistic licence Spotty. There are all sorts of thing wrong perspectively. From that angle you wouldn't see him at all in the mirror on the left unless the mirror was mirroring another mirror...if you know what I mean.. Has to be done deliberately though because it's almost certain the artist would work from a photo....?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Was a bit concerned at not seeing any sign of a bike in the "Nev" painting, but I've spotted it. Just beside the brush (in the mirror) there's a photo of him on his drop-handlebar model. Phew, thank goodness for that.

Oh dear. That's made me all seasick. Observe closely Monty. Photo of Nev on bike - where is it?
Answer, it is in the main mirror next to the brush, and should be next to his left shoulder. But if you look next to his left shoulder there is just another mirror with no sign of said photo. All very peculiar, and troubling.

Artistic licence Spotty. There are all sorts of thing wrong perspectively. From that angle you wouldn't see him at all in the mirror on the left unless the mirror was mirroring another mirror...if you know what I mean.. Has to be done deliberately though because it's almost certain the artist would work from a photo....?

Argh, now you pointed that out I'm even more seasick. I can no longer look at it without feeling sick. Poor Nev.

[thebish]

none opf the mirror stuff works at all!!

his right shoulder (in the mirror) casts a shadow onto a wall with a shelf with bottles on it - ansd a dangly brush they use to brush your bristle-infested neck with... outside the mirror his right shoulder is next to a wall with a mirror on it - not a shelf!!

also - his hair is black in the mirror - but brown outside the mirror!! what it really is is not mirrors at all - but three rooms all with alcoves and three Nev triplets all doing slightly different things...

anyway - give Tango a break - he normally castigates painters who can't paint stuff realistically!

[mrkint]

Still a really fun picture, though.

[TANGODANCER]

none opf the mirror stuff works at all!!

his right shoulder (in the mirror) casts a shadow onto a wall with a shelf with bottles on it - ansd a dangly brush they use to brush your bristle-infested neck with... outside the mirror his right shoulder is next to a wall with a mirror on it - not a shelf!!

also - his hair is black in the mirror - but brown outside the mirror!! what it really is is not mirrors at all - but three rooms all with alcoves and three Nev triplets all doing slightly different things...

anyway - give Tango a break - he normally castigates painters who can't paint stuff realistically!

Funny that, for somebody who admires the impressionists.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Was a bit concerned at not seeing any sign of a bike in the "Nev" painting, but I've spotted it. Just beside the brush (in the mirror) there's a photo of him on his drop-handlebar model. Phew, thank goodness for that.

Oh dear. That's made me all seasick. Observe closely Monty. Photo of Nev on bike - where is it?
Answer, it is in the main mirror next to the brush, and should be next to his left shoulder. But if you look next to his left shoulder there is just another mirror with no sign of said photo. All very peculiar, and troubling.

Eh? Why pick on me? I like the painting.

[thebish]

none opf the mirror stuff works at all!!

his right shoulder (in the mirror) casts a shadow onto a wall with a shelf with bottles on it - ansd a dangly brush they use to brush your bristle-infested neck with... outside the mirror his right shoulder is next to a wall with a mirror on it - not a shelf!!

also - his hair is black in the mirror - but brown outside the mirror!! what it really is is not mirrors at all - but three rooms all with alcoves and three Nev triplets all doing slightly different things...

anyway - give Tango a break - he normally castigates painters who can't paint stuff realistically!

Funny that, for somebody who admires the impressionists.

who basically painted objects and reflections and stuff in a very detailed and almost nerdily photo-realistic way! no??

[TANGODANCER]

Anyway, back to Nev. This actually might be a rather clever painting. See,the Nev in the image appears much younger; different hairstyle, showing teeth and a young man look about it. It actually does resemble the younger Nev very well as I knew him, and, if that was the object, is quite a nice idea. Can't be sure, but that's how it seems to me.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Was a bit concerned at not seeing any sign of a bike in the "Nev" painting, but I've spotted it. Just beside the brush (in the mirror) there's a photo of him on his drop-handlebar model. Phew, thank goodness for that.

Oh dear. That's made me all seasick. Observe closely Monty. Photo of Nev on bike - where is it?
Answer, it is in the main mirror next to the brush, and should be next to his left shoulder. But if you look next to his left shoulder there is just another mirror with no sign of said photo. All very peculiar, and troubling.

Eh? Why pick on me? I like the painting.

Oops That was meant to be "Observe closely Tango"