Would not getting promotion be a bad thing?

[gizmothevoomer]

I don't think there is a lot of difference between the top of the Championship and the bottom of the Premiership. If there was then the relegated teams would invariably dominate the Championship the following year especially given the parachute payments.

Given the new TV deal next year, which will ensure the difference between the haves and the have nots in the Premier league becomes greater. I think we need to look at a way of restructuring the Premiership and Championship into three smaller leagues, there is no doubt the Championship suffers for the need to play two games a week for most of the season.

The Premiership needs to evolve if it is to remain the best league in Europe, at least 6 clubs at the start of the season have only the ambition to remain in the league and part of the gravy train.

Football in this country has a deep rooted sense of being the working peoples game, the core fan base of a dad and lad going on Saturday afternoon is gone. If football is to remain the peoples game it must change, to ensure clubs take all competitions seriously. Look how we treated the Europa league as secondary to Premiership survival. Surely watching your team in Europe should be the highlight not an inconvenience?

Wake up lad, it's 2013 not 1953.

How many teams have gone into liquidation in the last five years? I can name three of the top of my head that have played in the premiership and a fourth no longer in existence as its heritage was ripped apart and moved 70 miles north. There will be more in the next few years and that needs to be addressed.

My point was, there's what should be, and what is. Changing it ....how?

Three leagues of 16 sides, promotion and relegation only for team finishing top and bottom, play off for teams finishing second and third from top and bottom. Also Champions league places to top two in league one, FA cup winners and League cup winners, with less fear of relegation teams would hopefully commit to Europa league as they do on the continent. Simplistic and needs a lot of work but a starting point.

The thing that scares me is 45 teams have played in the Premier league, 7 have been ever present, 11 teams have gone into administration in the years following relegation.

[Harry Genshaw]

I'm more than happy to have another year or two in the Championship. The footballs been fine, unpredictable and quite exciting at times.

I understand the financial worries of staying down, but 10 years in the Premiership saw our debts hugely increase year on year. Staying up for 10 years for a club of our size is a great achievement, so if we do get back up soon, we're likely to come back down again not too long after - what would the financial implications be then?

We're in an odd spot that if we do get up, we have to use the millions to clear some of the debt and make ourselves more streamlined like say Burnley or Blackpool did. That can only come at the expense of the side which in turn is likely to lead to relegation.

[truewhite15]

The problem with your idea, Gizmo, is that it's fine for the top teams, but prohibits movement between the leagues by limiting it to single club promotion/relegation. It will increase the gap between rich and poor, not make it smaller. If you're caught in the lower leagues, it will make it even harder to achieve success.

The only bit I do like is Champions League places for the top two, and for the winners of the League Cup and FA Cup.

[gizmothevoomer]

How many teams have gone into liquidation in the last five years? I can name three of the top of my head that have played in the premiership and a fourth no longer in existence as its heritage was ripped apart and moved 70 miles north. There will be more in the next few years and that needs to be addressed.

So, let me get this right, we remove corporate funding and hand out discounted tickets to men and their offspring? Is that right?

What I am advocating is clubs run in a financially responsible manner not gambling irresponsibly.

With regard discounted tickets, as turnstyle ticket sales in the last financial year accounted for less than 10% of Boltons turnover. Then why not do something to fill the ground and garb the next generation of fan.

[gizmothevoomer]

The problem with your idea, Gizmo, is that it's fine for the top teams, but prohibits movement between the leagues by limiting it to single club promotion/relegation. It will increase the gap between rich and poor, not make it smaller. If you're caught in the lower leagues, it will make it even harder to achieve success.

The only bit I do like is Champions League places for the top two, and for the winners of the League Cup and FA Cup.

I didn't explain the promotion / relegation properly the top club are promoted automatically to replace the bottom club. The teams finishing second and third from top or bottom have a play off to decide if they are relegated and promoted.

[truewhite15]

So you only get two going up and down. Same problem - if anything, you should make promotion/relegation easier, thereby ensuring a more even spread of money.

[bobo the clown]

How many teams have gone into liquidation in the last five years? I can name three of the top of my head that have played in the premiership and a fourth no longer in existence as its heritage was ripped apart and moved 70 miles north. There will be more in the next few years and that needs to be addressed.

So, let me get this right, we remove corporate funding and hand out discounted tickets to men and their offspring? Is that right?

What I am advocating is clubs run in a financially responsible manner not gambling irresponsibly.

With regard discounted tickets, as turnstyle ticket sales in the last financial year accounted for less than 10% of Boltons turnover. Then why not do something to fill the ground and garb the next generation of fan.

Is this a rugby idea ?

[gizmothevoomer]

How many teams have gone into liquidation in the last five years? I can name three of the top of my head that have played in the premiership and a fourth no longer in existence as its heritage was ripped apart and moved 70 miles north. There will be more in the next few years and that needs to be addressed.

So, let me get this right, we remove corporate funding and hand out discounted tickets to men and their offspring? Is that right?

What I am advocating is clubs run in a financially responsible manner not gambling irresponsibly.

With regard discounted tickets, as turnstyle ticket sales in the last financial year accounted for less than 10% of Boltons turnover. Then why not do something to fill the ground and garb the next generation of fan.

Is this a rugby idea ?

No it's a common sense idea, based upon the fact that nearly one quarter of clubs that are relegated from the premiership go into adminiastration. Since 2000 football league clubs have gone into administration 30 times, sooner or later these clubs aren't going to return from administration. How close are Portsmouth, Coventry to being wound up? The Premier league has succeeded in making bigger clubs and players and their agents richer. We are lucky that we have an owner who personally guarantees our debt which is double our annual turnover and double our Assets ( 67 Million on 2012 Balance sheet ) I want Bolton Wanderers and other historic clubs to be around in 50 years and beyond.

[Tombwfc]

I can see how it's terrible for the small businesses who owed money, and a shame for the fans, but other than that I don't think there's any great tragedy when a club ends up in liquidation. I think the solution is for clubs to manage themselves better, not for the leagues to bend to try and make it impossible for a select few to fail, whilst completely killing off a significant portion of League's One and Two.

Anyway to answer the question posed by thread, it would be a massive disappointment (albeit one that we've all had months to prepare for). I've found myself disliking being in the second tier more than I thought I would. I liked being in the Premier League and it irks me that we're not. I also didn't actually think the Championship would be this shit either, although it may just be a bad year. Cardiff and Hull are functional, Watford and Palace score goals, the rest are abysmal.

I do actually think we'd make a reasonable fist of the Premier League if we did go up this year though, just because I think we've got a lot of players who are probably more suited to that league than they are the Championship. West Ham obviously did a lot better than we have done, but they labored to promotion last year and yet they will stay up with ease.

[bobo the clown]

Well, this is "spin" time as we have to make the most of the situation we're in.

We aren't getting promoted, so we need to look for the positives as Mr S Lee used to say (is he still here btw, or did he exit when DF arrived ?).

Coyle did a far better job of fckg us over than even the most negative of us realised. DF took too long to turn in round (maybe due to the above point) and, despite the good run, it's been too little, too late.

I'd just like to put on record that, the more time passes & the more that comes out, I have come to truly, really, hate, loathe & despise Coyle.

So, given we are where we are & the big money will go to other clubs and we will continue to be less than a footnote in the media and we will lose a couple more of our remaining quality players then .... "Yay !! Way to go Championship !"

[Wrighty92]

With Gizmo's idea, he mentions that 2nd place in the lower league has a play off with 3rd bottom in the higher league... surely that would mean 3 teams coming down and two going up which would make the numbers in the higher league decrease every year

[truewhite15]

With Gizmo's idea, he mentions that 2nd place in the lower league has a play off with 3rd bottom in the higher league... surely that would mean 3 teams coming down and two going up which would make the numbers in the higher league decrease every year

No, he doesn't. He suggests that 14th and 15th in his 16 team higher league play off at the end of the season to decide the 2nd relegation place, the loser going down. Meanwhile, 2nd vs 3rd in the lower league play off for promotion, the winner going up. 2 up, 2 down.

Still a bobbins idea though.

[Harry Genshaw]

I liked being in the Premier League and it irks me that we're not. I also didn't actually think the Championship would be this shit either, although it may just be a bad year. Cardiff and Hull are functional, Watford and Palace score goals, the rest are abysmal.

This is the kind of thing we used to laugh at and slag Spammers fans for. I see it as an extremely competitive league and rather than as happens in the Prem, some teams going to places without a hope in hell, nobody fears anybody.

Leicester were a joy to watch when they came to the Reebok but are suddenly struggling. Forest were good and have improved no end since Davies took over. Watford were actually pretty poor at the Reebok but were still finding their feet. They've been great since.

This is a leage where Barnsley go to Birmingham and win 5-0, who then go to Palace themselves and win 4-0. It's bonkers - embrace it!

[BWFC_Insane]

I liked being in the Premier League and it irks me that we're not. I also didn't actually think the Championship would be this shit either, although it may just be a bad year. Cardiff and Hull are functional, Watford and Palace score goals, the rest are abysmal.

This is the kind of thing we used to laugh at and slag Spammers fans for. I see it as an extremely competitive league and rather than as happens in the Prem, some teams going to places without a hope in hell, nobody fears anybody.

Leicester were a joy to watch when they came to the Reebok but are suddenly struggling. Forest were good and have improved no end since Davies took over. Watford were actually pretty poor at the Reebok but were still finding their feet. They've been great since.

This is a leage where Barnsley go to Birmingham and win 5-0, who then go to Palace themselves and win 4-0. It's bonkers - embrace it!

The gap between the bottom ten or so in the premiership and the championship is very small.

I suspect one or two players separate 10th in the prem from 10th in the championship.

The championship is competitive.

Doesn't make it particularly good though.

I think quality players often get dragged down to a basic level in this league, which is probably why teams who go up tend to be grafting, disciplined, organised sides who defend well and are direct.

It's the recipe for getting out of this league, more or less.

I'm not convinced that a competitive slog is something people should be queuing up to watch week in week out though.

Certainly the buzz of winning is lessened in this league. Whereas every premiership win was a champagne moment. For me at least.....

[bwfcdan94]

Let me start off by saying I would love to see us get promoted.

But the point of my post is that today was a prime example of how far we are from being the team we would need to compete in the premiership, i think if we went up this season we'd struggle and be fighting relegation again, I think staying in the championship isn't the worst outcome for us it gives Dougie an entire season to work with the team, bring in his own team during the summer and really gives us a chance to push on and show some sort of class next season, I know we'd suffer with the money side and the lack of tv exposure but isn't that what we were dealing with in premiership aswell.

Are you seriously saying that we are worse then some of the pieces of s**t currently in the premiership, we would be in a dog fight to stay up but it would not matter what season we went up because that would always be the case.

[bw@bw]

Last time we got promoted to the PL (via the playoffs) we had a team that had no hope in the PL.
But somehow stayed up.
And then built on it.
I don't know if DF is as smart a manager as Sam was (is?) but I would rather we had a go at it than not

[bwfcdan94]

Last time we got promoted to the PL (via the playoffs) we had a team that had no hope in the PL.
But somehow stayed up.
And then built on it.
I don't know if DF is as smart a manager as Sam was (is?) but I would rather we had a go at it than not

The team we had then though was vile teams did not like the look of the likes of Hendry, Bergeson, Nobby and Ricketts. Opposition teams new they would have a fight on their hands when they played Bolton. Just realised the three teams that went up in 2001 (ourselves, Blackburn and Fulham) were in the premiership for absolutely bloody ages, one of them still is.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The team we had then though was vile teams did not like the look of the likes of Hendry, Bergeson, Nobby and Ricketts. Opposition teams new they would have a fight on their hands when they played Bolton. Just realised the three teams that went up in 2001 (ourselves, Blackburn and Fulham) were in the premiership for absolutely bloody ages, one of them still is.

Yep, the 2001/02 season is one of only two in the Premier League's 20 when at least one promoted club didn't go straight back down. (The other was last year, and as we all know QPR weren't far off.)

But I would disagree that our 2001 promoted team was "vile". Organised, certainly; counter-attacking, definitely (more points won away than at home). But the "ugly football" label got attached later, frequently by vanquished managers, as Allardyce honed his tactics for the unequal struggle of the Premier League. Of the players you mention, Hendry was hardly Chopper Harris, Bergsson was a wonderfully cultured defender, Nolan an exciting young goalscoring midfielder and Ricketts a quicksilver goal machine. Other regulars that term were Bo Hansen, Gareth Farrelly, Robbie Elliott and Ricardo Gardner. Vile?

[bwfcdan94]

You are right I am probably being unfair, their is a case for Hendry to be labelled vile, but the rest no. However Farrely was a tough tackling midfielder who certainly enjoyed getting stuck in, Nobby was always up for an argument, Bergeson was just hard and Ricketts was not nasty but he was difficult to play against because he was good in the air and very strong and therefore in that first season defences did not like playing against him and that is before I go on to mention his pace. The rest of the players you mentioned where nice players who were not exactly involved in the physical side of the game. I think you are right that we did not get a bad name until teams soon realised that actually we were not here in the premiership for a romantic joke and were actually quite serious, as soon as we started beating the big boys with regularity and regular success began to come are way we started to get a bad reputation, I would say 2003/2004 season was the turning point when we started doing well.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Can't remember what season it was but I always seem to remember the turning point in our PR was beating Souness's Newcastle at home, when they had (funnily enough) Robbie Elliott at centre-back so we not unreasonably pinged in a few high balls. We won, Souey lost his rag and sourly criticised us, and a few Bolton wins later it became an easy managerial excuse that we were terrifying to play against.