Player of the Season

[Prufrock]

Spearing's been great but it has to be Eagles. If you can't win it when you've scored the most goals and created the most goals then you're going to struggle to ever win it. He's infuriating, but if he was consistent he wouldn't be...you get it.

But by that logic only people that create and score goals can be player of the season. Most important player of the last 3 months has been Dawson. Discount his goals and his presence has probably prevented more goals than Eagles has scored or created. Over a season that would be more valuable to me than Eagles.

I know I'm on wonky ground here, but I think your ground is wonkier

Balls x 2!

Explain how 'by that logic' that is the case? He is our top scorer AND top for assists. I think it will be uncommon that there is a player who is top for both of those and shouldn't be player of the year. Goals are the most important thing in football. Sure there might be a year where one fella is top scorer and assister with 3 each and yet you keep 30 clean sheets. In those cases sure, but Eagles is second top for assists in the league and has scored 11 goals from midfield.

If Dawson had had that sort of effect over a whole season I agree he'd have a shout for player of the year, he has been outstanding. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with 'his presence has probably prevented more goals than Eagles has scored or created' though. Okay, if you say so then...

[m_taylor]

Did Paul Robinson not win player of the year ago a few years back and he didn't score any goals or even command our defense. He was just 'good' for a season which on that merit it must go to spearing.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Spearing's been great but it has to be Eagles. If you can't win it when you've scored the most goals and created the most goals then you're going to struggle to ever win it. He's infuriating, but if he was consistent he wouldn't be...you get it.

But by that logic only people that create and score goals can be player of the season. Most important player of the last 3 months has been Dawson. Discount his goals and his presence has probably prevented more goals than Eagles has scored or created. Over a season that would be more valuable to me than Eagles.

I know I'm on wonky ground here, but I think your ground is wonkier

Balls x 2!

Explain how 'by that logic' that is the case? He is our top scorer AND top for assists. I think it will be uncommon that there is a player who is top for both of those and shouldn't be player of the year. Goals are the most important thing in football. Sure there might be a year where one fella is top scorer and assister with 3 each and yet you keep 30 clean sheets. In those cases sure, but Eagles is second top for assists in the league and has scored 11 goals from midfield.

If Dawson had had that sort of effect over a whole season I agree he'd have a shout for player of the year, he has been outstanding. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with 'his presence has probably prevented more goals than Eagles has scored or created' though. Okay, if you say so then...

I'm not advocating Dawson, as like you I think 3 months is not enough time. What I'm trying to say (poorly) is that scoring and assisting is not the be all and end all. If we had a halfway competent striker that played as many games as Eagles, then Eagles wouldn't be top scorer.

I don't agree that scoring goals is the most important thing on it's own. It is easy to use goals as the deciding factor because they can be attributed to one person. Less easy to put your finger on what Spearing has done. For me, take out either player and we'd be significantly poorer for it, but without Spearing I don't think Eagles would have even 50% of what he has. Spearing has been more consistent as well.

That said, if Eagles gets it I don't think it is a travesty at all. I just don't think placing attacking play as more important than defensive play is right - which is how I interpret your original statement.

[BWFC_Insane]

AT, I suppose the thing is, that I can feasibly see us beating Blackpool without Spearing, given Medo and Pratley and even Holden.

I'm not sure whether we can beat them without Dawson (will depend on how "ready" the other CB's are to step in) but I think that is more down to circumstance than anything else. Dawson is clearly the best defender we had, and is a miss. I'm not sure any of the ones we have to step in will be anywhere near as good. But I could see Wheater do a job.

I don't think I could forsee us beating Blackpool without Eagles. We'd not have beaten Boro without Eagles or got a point last weekend I suspect.

I suppose early in the season when Spearing was poor Eagles, was knocking em in and keeping us just about afloat as well.

Don't think anyone would grumble at the list and for me Spearing or Eagles are worthy. I think Eagles just pips it for crucial nature of his contribution thus far!

[Prufrock]

Spearing's been great but it has to be Eagles. If you can't win it when you've scored the most goals and created the most goals then you're going to struggle to ever win it. He's infuriating, but if he was consistent he wouldn't be...you get it.

But by that logic only people that create and score goals can be player of the season. Most important player of the last 3 months has been Dawson. Discount his goals and his presence has probably prevented more goals than Eagles has scored or created. Over a season that would be more valuable to me than Eagles.

I know I'm on wonky ground here, but I think your ground is wonkier

Balls x 2!

Explain how 'by that logic' that is the case? He is our top scorer AND top for assists. I think it will be uncommon that there is a player who is top for both of those and shouldn't be player of the year. Goals are the most important thing in football. Sure there might be a year where one fella is top scorer and assister with 3 each and yet you keep 30 clean sheets. In those cases sure, but Eagles is second top for assists in the league and has scored 11 goals from midfield.

If Dawson had had that sort of effect over a whole season I agree he'd have a shout for player of the year, he has been outstanding. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with 'his presence has probably prevented more goals than Eagles has scored or created' though. Okay, if you say so then...

I'm not advocating Dawson, as like you I think 3 months is not enough time. What I'm trying to say (poorly) is that scoring and assisting is not the be all and end all. If we had a halfway competent striker that played as many games as Eagles, then Eagles wouldn't be top scorer.

I don't agree that scoring goals is the most important thing on it's own. It is easy to use goals as the deciding factor because they can be attributed to one person. Less easy to put your finger on what Spearing has done. For me, take out either player and we'd be significantly poorer for it, but without Spearing I don't think Eagles would have even 50% of what he has. Spearing has been more consistent as well.

That said, if Eagles gets it I don't think it is a travesty at all. I just don't think placing attacking play as more important than defensive play is right - which is how I interpret your original statement.

There's a reason who players who cost silly money are the ones who score and create goals though, and that's because it's the hardest thing to do. I'm a central midfielder, and I know, no matter how good a season I have, if the guy in front of me scores 20+ he'll get our player of the year. I'm ok with that, I'd happily take that for having a 20+ striker in our side. I'm not saying that more defensive players can't or shouldn't win it, just that when an attacking player has a really good year they are (rightly IMO) considered more valuable.

Anyway, BWFCi, there^, has more concisely and clearly said what I've been trying to say.

PS. I don't think attacking play is more important, but I do think good attackers are. It's easier to make a good defence from average players than a good attack from average players, IMO.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I can see where you are both coming from Pru/Insane one. At the end of the day both have been the best of a very poor bunch. Spearing has had far fewer poor games than Eagles and in my view both have contributed fairly equally in their different ways. Hence why I think the additional consistency edges it for me.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Club awards can be given to rolled-sleeve mascots like Robbo, but non-club awards tend to go to attacking/creative players. In 56 seasons of the Ballon 'dOr, it's only been won by three defenders (plus Lev Yashin) – and one of those was Beckenbauer.

One of the best players I've ever played with – a defensive player himself – is of the opinion that defenders can be "made" much more than forwards. Yes, all players can be trained, but much of defensive work is discipline and teamwork.

For this reason, I'm perhaps insanely hopeful that Dawson - lovely as he is, welcome back as he'd be - may not be the massive miss we all fear. It's possible that we now have proper coaching going on, and while Wheats/Mills/Reamohmygod are no Dawson, the manager and coaches aren't going back to West Brom with him.

[TANGODANCER]

Think we may have underestimated the amount of decent football in this league when chastising some of our players. Granted I've only watched the League show and an odd match on the box, but some of the football is hardly Moss Bank Park stuff. I think we've done pretty well really in most areas.

[BWFC_Insane]

I see Alonso is winning the vote on the BN website. I can't really fathom that. Been good in some respects since Christmas. Best player, even for that limited period? No.

I wonder what will happen if he gets mullered by Ince or Phillips on Saturday and ends up costing us a play-off place what they will say? Actually it's BN readers they will probably blame Butterfield.......

[boltonboris]

Club awards can be given to rolled-sleeve mascots like Robbo, but non-club awards tend to go to attacking/creative players. In 56 seasons of the Ballon 'dOr, it's only been won by three defenders (plus Lev Yashin) – and one of those was Beckenbauer.

And another one had just captained his team and his country to a league title and world cup..

[Beefheart]

I see Alonso is winning the vote on the BN website. I can't really fathom that. Been good in some respects since Christmas. Best player, even for that limited period? No.

I wonder what will happen if he gets mullered by Ince or Phillips on Saturday and ends up costing us a play-off place what they will say? Actually it's BN readers they will probably blame Butterfield.......

Maybe people are thinking it might help him sign a new contract?

[CAPSLOCK]

I don't think anybody is that stupid

[thebish]

I don't think anybody is that stupid

clearly you've lived a very sheltered life!!

[Athers]

I think my vote goes to Eagles too for his attacking contribution. We were a one man team for the first dozen games, and looks like he's come back to something like himself after being dropped a while ago. Seems that like the teams themselves, a lot of the attackers in this league can't keep it up for the whole season (steady)

Murray, Austin and Vydra's goals have dried up, Zaha went quiet for a while, some of the Watford lot have had a wobble recently but started poorly, a lot of the other wingers have been hit and miss too.

Just looking at the league stats though shows what an impact Tom Ince has had for a poor team with no stability who play on a cabbage patch - 18 goals and 14 assists!

[BWFC_Insane]

I think my vote goes to Eagles too for his attacking contribution. We were a one man team for the first dozen games, and looks like he's come back to something like himself after being dropped a while ago. Seems that like the teams themselves, a lot of the attackers in this league can't keep it up for the whole season (steady)

Murray, Austin and Vydra's goals have dried up, Zaha went quiet for a while, some of the Watford lot have had a wobble recently but started poorly, a lot of the other wingers have been hit and miss too.

Just looking at the league stats though shows what an impact Tom Ince has had for a poor team with no stability who play on a cabbage patch - 18 goals and 14 assists!

Oh great. You're really helping there. Just what I needed to calm the nerves....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Out of interest, I hadn't seen the PFA's Championship Team of the Year till today - possibly because it doesn't contain any Bolton players (and I don't peruse the Other Football forum). In case it's not been mentioned, here 'tis:

Kasper Schmeichel (Leicester);
Kieran Trippier (Burnley), Wes Morgan (Leicester), Mark Hudson (Cardiff), Wayne Bridge (Brighton);
Wilfried Zaha (Crystal Palace), Peter Whittingham (Cardiff), Yannick Bolasie (Crystal Palace), Tom Ince (Blackpool);
Glenn Murray (Crystal Palace), Matěj Vydra (Watford)

[bobo the clown]

Out of interest, I hadn't seen the PFA's Championship Team of the Year till today - possibly because it doesn't contain any Bolton players (and I don't peruse the Other Football forum). In case it's not been mentioned, here 'tis:

Kasper Schmeichel (Leicester);
Kieran Trippier (Burnley), Wes Morgan (Leicester), Mark Hudson (Cardiff), Wayne Bridge (Brighton);
Wilfried Zaha (Crystal Palace), Peter Whittingham (Cardiff), Yannick Bolasie (Crystal Palace), Tom Ince (Blackpool);
Glenn Murray (Crystal Palace), Matěj Vydra (Watford)

The make up of which sort of gives away the time the votes were being sought as well.