Dougie

[BWFC_Insane]

Freedman is nowhere near good enough for a club like Everton yet. He's a flawed manager right now but hopefully he'll continue to learn and in a years time, he'll prove that by getting us promoted. If a big club signed him tomorrow, it'd be like Chelsea signing a 17 year old prospect and expecting him to play every game. It's just not the right time yet.

Just remind us all how many premiership promotions David Moyes had masterminded when Everton offered him the job?

[Prufrock]

But did you not see the structure on that Preston side?!

[SmokinFrazier]

Freedman is nowhere near good enough for a club like Everton yet. He's a flawed manager right now but hopefully he'll continue to learn and in a years time, he'll prove that by getting us promoted. If a big club signed him tomorrow, it'd be like Chelsea signing a 17 year old prospect and expecting him to play every game. It's just not the right time yet.

Just remind us all how many premiership promotions David Moyes had masterminded when Everton offered him the job?

What's that got to do with anything? I'm not saying a manager needs to get promoted to the Premier League as proof of their ability.

Moyes was a massive success with PNE and his achievements were far greater than anything Freedman has done so far. Moyes was worth a gamble for a struggling Premier League club but Freedman is not worth the gamble for a team trying to maintain a top 6 place. I don't even think Freedman is good enough to be worth a chance at any Premier League club right now, never mind one like Everton.

You seem to have a boyish obsession with Freedman and can't accept any criticism of him, no matter how small. He's an alright manager now, he may turn into a very good one in the future but he's nowhere near that right now. You need a dose of reality about his ability and achievements, though I'll leave that with someone who has more patience than me. It'd br like trying to tell a 14 year old girl that One Direction aren't the best group ever, so I'll pass.

[BWFC_Insane]

Freedman is nowhere near good enough for a club like Everton yet. He's a flawed manager right now but hopefully he'll continue to learn and in a years time, he'll prove that by getting us promoted. If a big club signed him tomorrow, it'd be like Chelsea signing a 17 year old prospect and expecting him to play every game. It's just not the right time yet.

Just remind us all how many premiership promotions David Moyes had masterminded when Everton offered him the job?

What's that got to do with anything? I'm not saying a manager needs to get promoted to the Premier League as proof of their ability.

Moyes was a massive success with PNE and his achievements were far greater than anything Freedman has done so far. Moyes was worth a gamble for a struggling Premier League club but Freedman is not worth the gamble for a team trying to maintain a top 6 place. I don't even think Freedman is good enough to be worth a chance at any Premier League club right now, never mind one like Everton.

You seem to have a boyish obsession with Freedman and can't accept any criticism of him, no matter how small. He's an alright manager now, he may turn into a very good one in the future but he's nowhere near that right now. You need a dose of reality about his ability and achievements, though I'll leave that with someone who has more patience than me. It'd br like trying to tell a 14 year old girl that One Direction aren't the best group ever, so I'll pass.

I just don't like your ridiculously simplistic arguments. Everton didn't choose Moyes purely on record but because they sounded him out and he had the right qualities and vision they were looking for.

I'm not saying Everton will be interested in Freedman. I'd highly doubt it. But it's not impossible they could appoint a young Scottish manager with little track record. Certainly not impossible.

And the fact that you think you can decide what is an obvious mistake and what isn't based on isolated icidents, just confirms you don't have a fecking clue!

[Lord Kangana]

I hope Everton get Megson.

In fact, I hope every other f*cker in the league gets at least one turn on him, just so they'll learn the hard way what the majority of us were on about.

Obviously, EFCi will be four-square behind him as they grind out solid 0-0's at home with 11 men behind the ball.

In fact, he'd probably have the subs bench moved in front of the Gwladys Street end, just so he can have everyone behind the ball.

[thebish]

I just don't like your ridiculously simplistic arguments. Everton didn't choose Moyes purely on record but because they sounded him out and he had the right qualities and vision they were looking for.

And the fact that you think you can decide what is an obvious mistake and what isn't based on isolated icidents, just confirms you don't have a fecking clue!

blimey!!! is your time of the month???

[SmokinFrazier]

I just don't like your ridiculously simplistic arguments. Everton didn't choose Moyes purely on record but because they sounded him out and he had the right qualities and vision they were looking for.

I'm not saying Everton will be interested in Freedman. I'd highly doubt it. But it's not impossible they could appoint a young Scottish manager with little track record. Certainly not impossible.

And the fact that you think you can decide what is an obvious mistake and what isn't based on isolated icidents, just confirms you don't have a fecking clue!

Moyes was chosen because he'd impressed people with his mentality for years and when he was given the chance to manage, he did a fantastic job. You can't say the same about Freedman. Did he do well at Palace? Yeah, he probably did. Has he done well with us? I'd say he did alright but there's a gulf in the success that Freedman has had, to what Moyes had with Preston. As for the "right qualities", Freedman left a club he was adored at to get more money each week somewhere else, so I'm not sure whether any chairman would be too endeared by those qualities, especially not one like Bill Kenwright.

Moyes took a crap Preston squad, saved them from relegation and then got them promoted. He nearly got them promoted again to the Premier League and finished up winning 48% of his games in two divisions. So far, Freedman hasn't achieved anything other than a good League Cup run. The highlight of his managerial career would be beating a weakened United team, and his career win percentage is a decent 37%. Freedman now and Moyes at PNE are not comparable at all.

I'm not anti-Freedman either but I am realistic about his managerial abilities, unlike you. I'm happy to praise him when he's right but I'll also criticise him when he's wrong.

But yeah, if you're worried about Real Madrid coming in for Dougie when Mourinho leaves them, make a thread like this, mate:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21244" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Enoch]

I want some of what you're on!

[a1]

I'm not anti-Freedman either but I am realistic about his managerial abilities, unlike you. I'm happy to praise him when he's right but I'll also criticise him when he's wrong.

but what will you do if he relegates us ?

#coyLOLe

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Moyes had done very well in division 2 with PNE, then did quite well in Div 1 or whatever it is called. Dougie has done quite well in the Championship. Apart from a couple of seasons in Div 2, I don't see a massive difference between the 2 at this stage.

Moyes is over rated and will do averagely at Man Utd. I suspect Everton might go for an up and comer again...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Think you're slight underplaying Moyes' PNE CV there, AT:

97/98: appointed Jan, keeps them in D2
98/99: D2 play-offs
99/00: D2 champions
00/01: D1 play-off final
March 02: leaves for Everton with PNE in 7th; without him, PNE go on to finish 12th in 03/04 and 15th in 04/05

Meanwhile, Dougie:
10/11: appointed Jan, keeps them up in 20th
11/12: D1 17th
12/13: You know the rest

I'm not saying Moyes is Mourinho or Freedman a failure, but Moyes had done better for longer when Everton appointed him. And let's not forget that Everton were accustomed to finishing in the bottom six, whereas under Moyes they (will) have finished in the top eight for seven straight years.

That's not to say that I think Moyes will be a success at Old Trafford - he's taking a massive leap up and will face lots of problems from fans, players and that new bloke in the directors' box, especially if his side have a one-win-in-two-months run like Everton did this season - but I would be surprised if Everton appoint someone with no Premier League track record. The early suggestion is Bob "1ppg" Martin from Doomed Wigan, and I'd be interested to see how he goes on there...

[BWFC_Insane]

Think you're slight underplaying Moyes' PNE CV there, AT:

97/98: appointed Jan, keeps them in D2
98/99: D2 play-offs
99/00: D2 champions
00/01: D1 play-off final
March 02: leaves for Everton with PNE in 7th; without him, PNE go on to finish 12th in 03/04 and 15th in 04/05

Meanwhile, Dougie:
10/11: appointed Jan, keeps them up in 20th
11/12: D1 17th
12/13: You know the rest

I'm not saying Moyes is Mourinho or Freedman a failure, but Moyes had done better for longer when Everton appointed him. And let's not forget that Everton were accustomed to finishing in the bottom six, whereas under Moyes they (will) have finished in the top eight for seven straight years.

That's not to say that I think Moyes will be a success at Old Trafford - he's taking a massive leap up and will face lots of problems from fans, players and that new bloke in the directors' box, especially if his side have a one-win-in-two-months run like Everton did this season - but I would be surprised if Everton appoint someone with no Premier League track record. The early suggestion is Bob "1ppg" Martin from Doomed Wigan, and I'd be interested to see how he goes on there...

Agree with all that, but I don't think the difference is that huge. Freedman took Palace over in a nightmare position stabilised them and kept them up. Moyes did similar at Preston with a promotion thrown in.

Sure Moyes had an extra season on Freedman.

I don't for one minute think Everton will approach us for Freedman. And it's correct to say that the main difference is that Everton are now a consistent top 10 side as opposed to the relegation scrappers they were before Moyes took over.

I just think trying to make out the difference between Moyes at the point Everton came in for him and Freedman now is huge, is untrue. It may not be identical but they are close enough for comparison. And furthermore, clubs don't always, and often don't appoint purely on record.

On record Moyes would not have got a job at a club looking to win premierships and champions leagues, because on record he's not come close to doing that. He's not even won a trophy of any kind. So clearly Man Utd have picked a manager based on something over and above that.

As most clubs will do.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Agree with all that, but I don't think the difference is that huge.

So you agree and then go on to argue your reasons for disagreeing.

[BWFC_Insane]

Agree with all that, but I don't think the difference is that huge.

So you agree and then go on to argue your reasons for disagreeing.

Shades of grey........as opposed to black and white.

[TKIZ!]

Freedman is nowhere near good enough for a club like Everton yet. He's a flawed manager right now but hopefully he'll continue to learn and in a years time, he'll prove that by getting us promoted. If a big club signed him tomorrow, it'd be like Chelsea signing a 17 year old prospect and expecting him to play every game. It's just not the right time yet.

Just remind us all how many premiership promotions David Moyes had masterminded when Everton offered him the job?

Or major trophies he's won at Everton?

[Lord Kangana]

I would say its a fairly black and white record in that:

1) Moyes spent more seasons at PNE
2) Moyes had more seasons as a manager under his belt
3) Moyes had more relative success, given a play-off reached, at a club he was actually at

I'm not entirely sure what there is to argue about.

[TKIZ!]

It's The Wanderer, it wouldn't be right if we didn't have a disagreement about that or any other subject

[Lost Leopard Spot]

It's The Wanderer, it wouldn't be right if we didn't have a disagreement about that or any other subject

I disagree. I think we tend to agree on most things. ( )

[BWFC_Insane]

I would say its a fairly black and white record in that:

1) Moyes spent more seasons at PNE
2) Moyes had more seasons as a manager under his belt
3) Moyes had more relative success, given a play-off reached, at a club he was actually at

I'm not entirely sure what there is to argue about.

We're hardly talking about huge differences. It's pretty subtle.

And ultimately results in the same outcome that both were young managers finding their way, neither had managed in the premiership.

[Lord Kangana]

Good lord, with that logic Moyes and Ferguson are about the same then, as they're both breathing. Its a subtle difference between their achievements.