bloody norah... :-(

[Bruce Rioja]

I hadn't. I don't think the sentence after it was there, but it definitely said 'general ignorance'. It would have been a pretty lucky save on my part if I was being a dick, specifically referencing Stephen Fry, and then bish had stuck in those precise words afterwards!

I've never seen good luck quite like it.

Anyway, back to The EDL and whatnot.

[William the White]

If someone commits an atrocity with a gun, we have to talk about gun ownership afterwards despite the fact that the vast majority of gun owners would never dream of turning one on another human unless in an extreme situation necessitating self defence.

When someone commits an atrocity shouting 'Allahu Akbar' then it seems fairly obvious to me that Islamic extremism will form a significant part of the conversation afterwards.

However, and maybe it's a bit trite to say so, but a good measure of a civilised society is how it responds to barbarity. What's the point in an intolerant backlash against an entire religion that isn't going away anytime soon? What's the point in the 'hanging is too good for them' talionic response?

And as with the school shootings, we have made the same mistake of giving these guys far too much personal coverage. Why give them the fame and platform they dearly wanted and encourage the next one?

I'm relieved... A thoughtful contribution...

Not trite (in para 3) to say so, given the amount of foam here... [though I'm avoiding the idea this is a civilised society...]

Not sure about para 4 though - of course the reflex response is going to lead to what we see here with a lot of froth and very little thought - but imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

[Prufrock]

Bish?

I'm telling on Bruce!

[Prufrock]

I hadn't. I don't think the sentence after it was there, but it definitely said 'general ignorance'. It would have been a pretty lucky save on my part if I was being a dick, specifically referencing Stephen Fry, and then bish had stuck in those precise words afterwards!

I've never seen good luck quite like it.

Anyway, back to The EDL and whatnot.

You've fecking edited that as well

[Bruce Rioja]

I hadn't. I don't think the sentence after it was there, but it definitely said 'general ignorance'. It would have been a pretty lucky save on my part if I was being a dick, specifically referencing Stephen Fry, and then bish had stuck in those precise words afterwards!

I've never seen good luck quite like it.

Anyway, back to The EDL and whatnot.

You've fecking edited that as well

Prove it.

[LeverEnd]

fecking EDL. the only EDL member I know personally was, bizarrely enough, at the Queen's Garden party yesterday when this was going on.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Not sure about para 4 though - of course the reflex response is going to lead to what we see here with a lot of froth and very little thought - but imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

I agree that someone has to do this investigating, but I wish we could agree that we were not going to give murderers personal fame and a public platform for their views.

[Hoboh]

If our Prime Minister and Home secretary had a pair of balls between them, Qatada would be appearing on sky news arriving at a Jordanian airport!

[bobo the clown]

imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

Earlier this week I was scoffed at for suggesting that lack of integration ... as a policy of the previous Govt. ... had cultural consequences.

Well, maybe that has something to do with this.

[Worthy4England]

imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

Earlier this week I was scoffed at for suggesting that lack of integration ... as a policy of the previous Govt. ... had cultural consequences.

Well, maybe that has something to do with this.

I can live with the sentiment, but I'm lost on the "policy of the previous Govt." Bit. I'm fairly sure we didn't become multi-cultural in 1997.

[LeverEnd]

imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

Earlier this week I was scoffed at for suggesting that lack of integration ... as a policy of the previous Govt. ... had cultural consequences.

Well, maybe that has something to do with this.

Well yes that is an issue, but this guy was raised in a Christian Nigerian heritage family. So not really a typical case of anything. other than being fecking bonkers. I don't think there is much to learn from this, other than that people just decide to go mad sometimes for all sorts of reasons.

[a1]

still carnt weigh up the "i'll film this on my ipad" mentality. its fecked up when folk do it at football matches, but this too... jesus christ.

you'd do 2 things , run away and/or run the headchoppers over in some kinda van.

[LeverEnd]

imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

Earlier this week I was scoffed at for suggesting that lack of integration ... as a policy of the previous Govt. ... had cultural consequences.

Well, maybe that has something to do with this.

I can live with the sentiment, but I'm lost on the "policy of the previous Govt." Bit. I'm fairly sure we didn't become multi-cultural in 1997.

If we're talking govt policy, it was announced today that Bolton will have a boys' Muslim Free School from Sept 2014. More isolationism in a town where white and asian kids learn together in most schools in the borough (even Essa Academy formerly Hayward). Brilliant idea Gove you massive nice person.

[LeverEnd]

still carnt weigh up the "i'll film this on my ipad" mentality. its fecked up when folk do it at football matches, but this too... jesus christ.

you'd do 2 things , run away and/or run the headchoppers over in some kinda van.

maybe these feck* think if they watch it through a viewfinder it's not real? idiots.
was at a Wildhearts gig in manc last month and Ginger the singer gave everyone permission to trash any phone thrust into their field of vision. Good man!

[Worthy4England]

I'm sure someone will be along presently to point out that other denominations are already provided for in schooling, therefore it's not isolationism. Which would potentially be correct, if you were already not isolated in the first place.

[Hoboh]

The 'schools thing' just shows that intergration of peoples and cultures can never fully take place except in the minds of the day dreamers!

[bobo the clown]

imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

Earlier this week I was scoffed at for suggesting that lack of integration ... as a policy of the previous Govt. ... had cultural consequences.

Well, maybe that has something to do with this.

I can live with the sentiment, but I'm lost on the "policy of the previous Govt." Bit. I'm fairly sure we didn't become multi-cultural in 1997.

Only last week Mandelson admitted that it was an unstated policy to (I paraphrase) "virtually sent search parties" for Asian immigrants and it was policy to drive this toward multi-culturalism rather than integration.

Surely this may have some baring on how the Muslim youth feels like outsiders and the indigenous ones respond to this.

[Hoboh]

Not sure about para 4 though - of course the reflex response is going to lead to what we see here with a lot of froth and very little thought - but imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

I agree that someone has to do this investigating, but I wish we could agree that we were not going to give murderers personal fame and a public platform for their views.

Moot point mummy but some of those in your profession are the worst for that.

[thebish]

imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

Earlier this week I was scoffed at for suggesting that lack of integration ... as a policy of the previous Govt. ... had cultural consequences.

Well, maybe that has something to do with this.

no you weren't! you were scoffed at for saying that being in the EU is a cultural issue!! and you were not really scoffed at - merely asked to explain what you meant!! revisionist!!

[Prufrock]

Not sure about para 4 though - of course the reflex response is going to lead to what we see here with a lot of froth and very little thought - but imo it's important to investigate what is going on socially, politically, psychologically that leads to this kind of alienation that permits/celebrates this kind of action...

I agree that someone has to do this investigating, but I wish we could agree that we were not going to give murderers personal fame and a public platform for their views.

Moot point mummy but some of those in your profession are the worst for that.

Go on...?