Wine

[thebish]

Haha, I'm not sure, I thought it was you!

Its the Parker one, about 10% of wine being faulty. Its just bollox, can anyone here really say that 1 in every 10 bottles they buy tastes faulty?

i wouldn't notice by the time i got to the tenth, tbh.... {hic}

[Montreal Wanderer]

Haha, I'm not sure, I thought it was you!

Its the Parker one, about 10% of wine being faulty. Its just bollox, can anyone here really say that 1 in every 10 bottles they buy tastes faulty? The 1% that is quoted after a more rigorous study seems to bear a greater resemblance to my (and many others) experience.

Which, if you think about it rationally, is a 99% success rate. Almost impossible to better. But then, if you had an agenda, you wouldn't be claiming the rival product you were replacing to be "almost perfect already", would you?

Ah, I guess it came from Mr. Kint's article. All I said was that it seems to me an increasing number of corks are substandard and crumble/break when being pulled even though stored properly. Purely subjective.

[William the White]

I've got a really nice, chilled Viognier in front of me. From Pays d'Oc.

Peaches. Sweet n sour. Fragrant. Gonna have it with roast asparagus soup soon...

[Lord Kangana]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... e-analysis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This article appears to have caused a stir with some fellow wine lovers. I might add that many, myself invluded, broadly agree with many of its conclusions. which, again by the way, are nothing particularly new, but may povide some interesting reading.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... e-analysis

This article appears to have caused a stir with some fellow wine lovers. I might add that many, myself invluded, broadly agree with many of its conclusions. which, again by the way, are nothing particularly new, but may povide some interesting reading.

Now I'm not a winey, I'm a beer person, but I think beer tasting may have some lessons for wine tasting here. Having read the article I note that the psychological factor of tasting a 'superior' wine has been dealt with in the article, but the so called science of the research is dubious to say the least. Just because one person rates wine (the same wine, from the same bottle) as a 90, an 86, and then a 94 is not necessarily the result of error or lack of judgement on behalf of the taster. It is well known in beer tasting circles that the taste of a beer is very much dependent upon which other beers have already been tasted, some beers compliment other beers and other beers make what was previously a very tasty beer into a douchebag of a beer. Flavours linger in the mouth, and even after flushing with water, will influence the taste of the next drink. Which is why the method for testing the judges as outlined in the article is flawed as a scientific concept, because it has no control. Experiments that utilise comparisons, in order to verify those comparisons, always require a control.

[Lord Kangana]

The flaws in wine-tasting are well understood. That they aren't changed is not because people think they're perfect. Or as Simon Hoggart says, no-one is capable of comprehensibly tasting wine without swallowing it. But then they'd all be pissed.

Remember, lots of people make lots of money out of large tastings.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

^ Thinking about it, the only way to place a control into the wine tasting experiment would be to have the tasters taste the same set of wine three times. Don't tell the tasters how many wines are to be tested and then serve them wines A B C D E and F say, followed by A B C D E F A B C D E F. The control would be the marks given to F, with the marks given to A probably the most inconsistent. Even that would necesarily depend on the taste of F being complimentary to A. If the taste of F destroyed the flavoursomeness of A then the second taste of A might well unbalance the second B and so on down the line. So the control F would only be acceptable if the second A recieved a taste value close to the first A. If that was the case then you'd have a true scientific experiment in wine tasting.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The flaws in wine-tasting are well understood. That they aren't changed is not because people think they're perfect. Or as Simon Hoggart says, no-one is capable of comprehensibly tasting wine without swallowing it. But then they'd all be pissed.

Remember, lots of people make lots of money out of large tastings.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm disagreeing with the subject of the article thinking he's put some kind of scientific judgemental process into it. he hasn't - what he's done is pseudo-science.

[Lord Kangana]

That was where the three random scores come from. I myself believe that tastings are a waste of time anyway. Mood, time, company, food etc etc etc etc ad infinitum can affect our senses much more than we'd either like to admit or even understand. I think its a bit trite to suggest that all wine is equal, if only that were the case, but certainly there is a lot more blurring of lines between "fine" and "ordinary" these days.

Still, in the right context, an excellent, well kept, correctly served (and generally expensive) bottle of wine will usually outperform a bottle of Blossom Hills. The problem is, like many many areas of life, it takes a lot of experience to start to spot the obvious rip-offs, and potential bargains. Before that, its just pot luck. Actually, theres still an element of pot-luck, but informed pot-luck, if you will.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The flaws in wine-tasting are well understood. That they aren't changed is not because people think they're perfect. Or as Simon Hoggart says, no-one is capable of comprehensibly tasting wine without swallowing it. But then they'd all be pissed.

Remember, lots of people make lots of money out of large tastings.

I have only ever taken part in one wine tasting and it was led by Simon Hoggart. I don't think I could tell red from white by the end.

[Bruce Rioja]

The flaws in wine-tasting are well understood. That they aren't changed is not because people think they're perfect. Or as Simon Hoggart says, no-one is capable of comprehensibly tasting wine without swallowing it. But then they'd all be pissed.

Remember, lots of people make lots of money out of large tastings.

I have only ever taken part in one wine tasting and it was led by Simon Hoggart. I don't think I could tell red from white by the end.

Noticed when I was at the Bury Show on Sunday a company that bring wine tastings to your home. The company were, or indeed are called Pieroth. I didn't enquire further as the name suggests that they are German, and the only reason I'd want to taste German wine would be to draw up the order by which I'd tip them down the sink. Still, the idea of at-home wine tasting is something that I think I'll look into further.

[William the White]

Is there any German wine that is actually worth drinking? Calling his Lordship...

[Lord Kangana]

Bloody loads. Don't listen to Bruce, he's going off really old data, most of which is a reflective throwback to the Austrian wine scandal and the selling of Blue Nun and Black Tower. Plenty of Riesling is great, and they make some practically bomb-proof sweet wines that shouldn't be drunk for at least 20 years. Some of their Pinot Noir is starting to look good, but as with all German Wines it can be both pricey and difficult to find, as the market hasn't really recovered over here from the aforementioned.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Bloody loads. Don't listen to Bruce, he's going off really old data, most of which is a reflective throwback to the Austrian wine scandal and the selling of Blue Nun and Black Tower. Plenty of Riesling is great, and they make some practically bomb-proof sweet wines that shouldn't be drunk for at least 20 years. Some of their Pinot Noir is starting to look good, but as with all German Wines it can be both pricey and difficult to find, as the market hasn't really recovered over here from the aforementioned.

I'd agree here. As far as I can recall Black Tower was not technically a German wine but listed as a product of the European Community when purchased over here. There is also no such area as Liebfraumilch which is a generic name. I don't know about the scandal. I thought German wines had fairly strict quality controls. The better wines tend to be a bit sweeter (e.g. spatlese - late pickings; auslese - late picking with unripe grapes rejected; beerenauslese - auslese with a touch of the rot; and trockenberenuaslese - beerenauslese with the noble rot which doesn't happen ever year (well it does in Austria but....)). I'm not sure I've tried their pinot noir. Riesling is the standard but I have sampled several others. I've seldom been disappointed with wines from the Rheigau and the Nahe.

[Bruce Rioja]

Bruce had an update for his old data when in Frankfurt the other week. Still undrinkable.

Still, if the Germans like it then that's their business, I suppose.

[William the White]

Bloody loads. Don't listen to Bruce, he's going off really old data, most of which is a reflective throwback to the Austrian wine scandal and the selling of Blue Nun and Black Tower. Plenty of Riesling is great, and they make some practically bomb-proof sweet wines that shouldn't be drunk for at least 20 years. Some of their Pinot Noir is starting to look good, but as with all German Wines it can be both pricey and difficult to find, as the market hasn't really recovered over here from the aforementioned.

Any specific recco for a sweet wine to go with blue cheese? Say - Roquefort...

Half bottle for under a tenner and how to source it?

Or am I in dreamland here?

[Lord Kangana]

Erm, not necessarily dreamland, but its difficult if

1) You're not buying from an online retailer (they normally have minimum orders, or a delivery charge)
2) You're not near a Waitrose or Booths. Or Majestic at a push. Even then, a decent one is probably edging you over a tenner.

Sainsbury's Taste the Difference 12 YO Pedro Ximinez is an absolute belter of a dessert wine at £7.99. I've never tried it with Roquefort. However, it tastes of liquid figs, and figs are a perfect partner to Roquefort.

Might I tempt you to experiment, and report back?

[Lord Kangana]

I've just found an Olly Smith reco for Tesco Finest Dessert Semillon 2008 at £6.99. I'm still interested in the PX experiment though.

[William the White]

Erm, not necessarily dreamland, but its difficult if

1) You're not buying from an online retailer (they normally have minimum orders, or a delivery charge)
2) You're not near a Waitrose or Booths. Or Majestic at a push. Even then, a decent one is probably edging you over a tenner.

Sainsbury's Taste the Difference 12 YO Pedro Ximinez is an absolute belter of a dessert wine at £7.99. I've never tried it with Roquefort. However, it tastes of liquid figs, and figs are a perfect partner to Roquefort.

Might I tempt you to experiment, and report back?

It is a belter and it is perfect with Roquefort... We've had this conversation a while ago... I think i just want a trustworty name for a German wine so i can give one a try... Booths are easy to find north of here... Could use the senior rail pass for a trip to Chorley or Clitheroe...

Actually, I'll check out Byrne's in Clitheroe - can you suggest what I should ask for?

[Lord Kangana]

Tell him your requirements. And say you're really interested in trying out German dessert wines - Auslese, Beerenauslese, Trockenbeerenaulese. They're real enthusiasts there - Decanter shop of the year a couple of years ago. A word of warning though, German Dessert wine is, in the main, very expensive. I'd be amazed if you got a good bottle for under £20, never mind ten.

At a pinch, if you're willing to experiment, ask him for a Jurancon or a Pacherenc-de-vic-bilh. Last time I was there (admittedly a couple of years ago) they were carrying some Alain Brumont PdVB, and I'm sure they had Jurancon. But they're French, not German. At a pinch, a fall back from Germany if you will, you could ask for an Alsatian Vendange Tardive, like a Riesling or (my favourite) Pinot Gris.

Just be sure to have your credit card to hand.