Centre Back. The search goes on.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I've lost patience with Knight & Ream, with good reason. Wheater and Mills I've not seen enough of to to really comment at this level, but I'm not exactly filled with confidence. If its "nonsense" then so be it. But I'm genuinely as concerned (as I can be about football) about going into this season with these centre halves. I think these will be the difference between upper mid table and a genuine promotion push.

What has changed your mind in the last few weeks? I'm sure I can recall you saying Knight et al at CB should suffice for this level (a few weeks back).

Not Bishing you, just genuinely interested in what has changed in recent weeks for you to change your mind.

^ Bish, as a verb.

[imaginary conversation: "Why are you going there?", "for the craic", "you've got to be bishing me!"]

[boltonboris]

I've lost patience with Knight & Ream, with good reason. Wheater and Mills I've not seen enough of to to really comment at this level, but I'm not exactly filled with confidence. If its "nonsense" then so be it. But I'm genuinely as concerned (as I can be about football) about going into this season with these centre halves. I think these will be the difference between upper mid table and a genuine promotion push.

What has changed your mind in the last few weeks? I'm sure I can recall you saying Knight et al at CB should suffice for this level (a few weeks back).

Not Bishing you, just genuinely interested in what has changed in recent weeks for you to change your mind.

In all honesty. Pre season. I know we shouldn't look into the results too much, but you still want to see individuals showing a bit of ability, especially against 'lesser' teams (I hate that word). But they're genuinely being beaten up pillar to post and making proper basic mistakes 5, 6, 7 times a game.

Regardless of it being pre-season, it's made me think that if you're shit at defending, it doesn't matter what level you're at. You're still going to be shit.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I've lost patience with Knight & Ream, with good reason. Wheater and Mills I've not seen enough of to to really comment at this level, but I'm not exactly filled with confidence. If its "nonsense" then so be it. But I'm genuinely as concerned (as I can be about football) about going into this season with these centre halves. I think these will be the difference between upper mid table and a genuine promotion push.

What has changed your mind in the last few weeks? I'm sure I can recall you saying Knight et al at CB should suffice for this level (a few weeks back).

Not Bishing you, just genuinely interested in what has changed in recent weeks for you to change your mind.

In all honesty. Pre season. I know we shouldn't look into the results too much, but you still want to see individuals showing a bit of ability, especially against 'lesser' teams (I hate that word). But they're genuinely being beaten up pillar to post and making proper basic mistakes 5, 6, 7 times a game.

Regardless of it being pre-season, it's made me think that if you're shit at defending, it doesn't matter what level you're at. You're still going to be shit.

I'd lost patience with him early last season. To my mind a competent defender should stand out in this division (for the right reasons). Clearly none of our defenders did that last season with anything approaching consistency. Dawson is a competent defender and looked a world beater in our defence. Whether he really is anything more than competent remains to be seen. So whilst I'd like Dawson back, it isn't at all costs that some on here are advocating.

For me I'd like to see Holden feature in the first few games so we can see if he looks up to the job. If we're not convinced then a revisit with Spearing makes a lot of sense. As for strikers. Dougie has bought 2 now. I don't think Ngog and the rest are so shockingly bad that he needs to chuck loads of money at the position. We need another left back and at least 1 centre back before any strikers.

[BWFC_Insane]

Aye before pre-season friendlies I was concerned that we weren't looking at centre halves. It now appears that we have to shift some of the ones we've got first before buying. And apparently we've been trying to move on Ream and Mills all summer but failing, which tells you something.

I personally don't think they are all "shit and useless". I think some of it is about having the right blend at the back, something we've lacked.

I think Ream is not strong enough to be a CB in English football. Bottom line. And I doubt that can be rectified short of him learning a new position. Which looks unlikely.
Mills just hasn't shown anything since being here. Which is a shame as he used to be a decent enough player for this level. Don't know what the issue is, but he's not performed since leaving Reading.
Wheater is a bit of an unknown but I suspect with the right partner would be fine.
Knight for me is not as bad as people make out. Again with the right partner he can be ok.

Now Dawson came in last season and made a huge difference. For me not because he's an "outstanding player" which he may well go on to be but he's not there yet, but because he complimented what we had in the back four, and had a confidence and assurance that rubbed off on the others. He also organised them in a way none of our existing players seem to be able to do. Possibly because he was assured and calm and that leads to being able to shout at others a bit and have them listen. He's not particularly quick nor brilliant on the ball or any of those things, but the key for me is he's an anticipator a reader of the game, someone who senses danger and reacts pre-emptively.

The issue with Knight, Wheater, Mills partly for me is that they're all reactors. They pretty much all back off players and cover areas and stand their ground. But none of them nick a ball off the striker high up the pitch, none of them instinctively cover the other defender when they sense a player is about to get "done", they just don't read it that well. Plenty of players like that, some exceptionally good. It's not something that really can be learned, it's more of a talent I'd say. I'd go back to the days under Rioch when Simon Coleman came into a somewhat struggling defence and made it seem a lot better and for me he was similar to Dawson in many ways. Gudni Bergsson is another example, a reader of the game who went well alongside a more "stand and deliver" type like Whitlow or Hendry.

I think that is the main issue at centre half IMO. We haven't got a balance, haven't got that game reading quality at the back and it makes players seem worse for me. Knight for example looked better alongside Dawson. Sure there were still mistakes, though every defender makes those errors. I just think that we haven't as yet found a natural partnership. And that is a big thing IMO.

[thebish]

I've lost patience with Knight & Ream, with good reason. Wheater and Mills I've not seen enough of to to really comment at this level, but I'm not exactly filled with confidence. If its "nonsense" then so be it. But I'm genuinely as concerned (as I can be about football) about going into this season with these centre halves. I think these will be the difference between upper mid table and a genuine promotion push.

What has changed your mind in the last few weeks? I'm sure I can recall you saying Knight et al at CB should suffice for this level (a few weeks back).

Not Bishing you, just genuinely interested in what has changed in recent weeks for you to change your mind.

don't blame me for your cyber-bullying!!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I've lost patience with Knight & Ream, with good reason. Wheater and Mills I've not seen enough of to to really comment at this level, but I'm not exactly filled with confidence. If its "nonsense" then so be it. But I'm genuinely as concerned (as I can be about football) about going into this season with these centre halves. I think these will be the difference between upper mid table and a genuine promotion push.

What has changed your mind in the last few weeks? I'm sure I can recall you saying Knight et al at CB should suffice for this level (a few weeks back).

Not Bishing you, just genuinely interested in what has changed in recent weeks for you to change your mind.

don't blame me for your cyber-bullying!!

I was referring to your exceptional talent with the search engine to find contradictory statements by BWFCI. It was a compliment

[thebish]

I've lost patience with Knight & Ream, with good reason. Wheater and Mills I've not seen enough of to to really comment at this level, but I'm not exactly filled with confidence. If its "nonsense" then so be it. But I'm genuinely as concerned (as I can be about football) about going into this season with these centre halves. I think these will be the difference between upper mid table and a genuine promotion push.

What has changed your mind in the last few weeks? I'm sure I can recall you saying Knight et al at CB should suffice for this level (a few weeks back).

Not Bishing you, just genuinely interested in what has changed in recent weeks for you to change your mind.

don't blame me for your cyber-bullying!!

I was referring to your exceptional talent with the search engine to find contradictory statements by BWFCI. It was a compliment

nobody needs a search engine to find contradictory statements by BWFCi!!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I've lost patience with Knight & Ream, with good reason. Wheater and Mills I've not seen enough of to to really comment at this level, but I'm not exactly filled with confidence. If its "nonsense" then so be it. But I'm genuinely as concerned (as I can be about football) about going into this season with these centre halves. I think these will be the difference between upper mid table and a genuine promotion push.

What has changed your mind in the last few weeks? I'm sure I can recall you saying Knight et al at CB should suffice for this level (a few weeks back).

Not Bishing you, just genuinely interested in what has changed in recent weeks for you to change your mind.

don't blame me for your cyber-bullying!!

I was referring to your exceptional talent with the search engine to find contradictory statements by BWFCI. It was a compliment

nobody needs a search engine to find contradictory statements by BWFCi!!

True. But you are usually able to find them by the dozen

[Athers]

I like Wheater, assuming he's the same player as he was before the injury I think he is good enough for a top 6 team. Him plus one for me, but I've no confidence in any of the potential partners. It's a shame Ream is shit because we could have done with the player we were sold - left footed to bring some balance, good distributor, quick etc

[Hoboh]

Aye before pre-season friendlies I was concerned that we weren't looking at centre halves. It now appears that we have to shift some of the ones we've got first before buying. And apparently we've been trying to move on Ream and Mills all summer but failing, which tells you something.

I personally don't think they are all "shit and useless". I think some of it is about having the right blend at the back, something we've lacked.

I think Ream is not strong enough to be a CB in English football. Bottom line. And I doubt that can be rectified short of him learning a new position. Which looks unlikely.
Mills just hasn't shown anything since being here. Which is a shame as he used to be a decent enough player for this level. Don't know what the issue is, but he's not performed since leaving Reading.
Wheater is a bit of an unknown but I suspect with the right partner would be fine.
Knight for me is not as bad as people make out. Again with the right partner he can be ok.

Now Dawson came in last season and made a huge difference. For me not because he's an "outstanding player" which he may well go on to be but he's not there yet, but because he complimented what we had in the back four, and had a confidence and assurance that rubbed off on the others. He also organised them in a way none of our existing players seem to be able to do. Possibly because he was assured and calm and that leads to being able to shout at others a bit and have them listen. He's not particularly quick nor brilliant on the ball or any of those things, but the key for me is he's an anticipator a reader of the game, someone who senses danger and reacts pre-emptively.

The issue with Knight, Wheater, Mills partly for me is that they're all reactors. They pretty much all back off players and cover areas and stand their ground. But none of them nick a ball off the striker high up the pitch, none of them instinctively cover the other defender when they sense a player is about to get "done", they just don't read it that well. Plenty of players like that, some exceptionally good. It's not something that really can be learned, it's more of a talent I'd say. I'd go back to the days under Rioch when Simon Coleman came into a somewhat struggling defence and made it seem a lot better and for me he was similar to Dawson in many ways. Gudni Bergsson is another example, a reader of the game who went well alongside a more "stand and deliver" type like Whitlow or Hendry.

I think that is the main issue at centre half IMO. We haven't got a balance, haven't got that game reading quality at the back and it makes players seem worse for me. Knight for example looked better alongside Dawson. Sure there were still mistakes, though every defender makes those errors. I just think that we haven't as yet found a natural partnership. And that is a big thing IMO.

You had me more or less on board until this, lack of reaction seems to be just one of the difficulties they have in the cupboard.

[BWFC_Insane]

Aye before pre-season friendlies I was concerned that we weren't looking at centre halves. It now appears that we have to shift some of the ones we've got first before buying. And apparently we've been trying to move on Ream and Mills all summer but failing, which tells you something.

I personally don't think they are all "shit and useless". I think some of it is about having the right blend at the back, something we've lacked.

I think Ream is not strong enough to be a CB in English football. Bottom line. And I doubt that can be rectified short of him learning a new position. Which looks unlikely.
Mills just hasn't shown anything since being here. Which is a shame as he used to be a decent enough player for this level. Don't know what the issue is, but he's not performed since leaving Reading.
Wheater is a bit of an unknown but I suspect with the right partner would be fine.
Knight for me is not as bad as people make out. Again with the right partner he can be ok.

Now Dawson came in last season and made a huge difference. For me not because he's an "outstanding player" which he may well go on to be but he's not there yet, but because he complimented what we had in the back four, and had a confidence and assurance that rubbed off on the others. He also organised them in a way none of our existing players seem to be able to do. Possibly because he was assured and calm and that leads to being able to shout at others a bit and have them listen. He's not particularly quick nor brilliant on the ball or any of those things, but the key for me is he's an anticipator a reader of the game, someone who senses danger and reacts pre-emptively.

The issue with Knight, Wheater, Mills partly for me is that they're all reactors. They pretty much all back off players and cover areas and stand their ground. But none of them nick a ball off the striker high up the pitch, none of them instinctively cover the other defender when they sense a player is about to get "done", they just don't read it that well. Plenty of players like that, some exceptionally good. It's not something that really can be learned, it's more of a talent I'd say. I'd go back to the days under Rioch when Simon Coleman came into a somewhat struggling defence and made it seem a lot better and for me he was similar to Dawson in many ways. Gudni Bergsson is another example, a reader of the game who went well alongside a more "stand and deliver" type like Whitlow or Hendry.

I think that is the main issue at centre half IMO. We haven't got a balance, haven't got that game reading quality at the back and it makes players seem worse for me. Knight for example looked better alongside Dawson. Sure there were still mistakes, though every defender makes those errors. I just think that we haven't as yet found a natural partnership. And that is a big thing IMO.

You had me more or less on board until this, lack of reaction seems to be just one of the difficulties they have in the cupboard.

Yeah but because they react to danger rather than pre-empt it, often makes them look well behind the pace. Reality is that if we had someone alongside one of them who could read the game like Dawson did, I think it'd be a better partnership.

[Hoboh]

Aye before pre-season friendlies I was concerned that we weren't looking at centre halves. It now appears that we have to shift some of the ones we've got first before buying. And apparently we've been trying to move on Ream and Mills all summer but failing, which tells you something.

I personally don't think they are all "shit and useless". I think some of it is about having the right blend at the back, something we've lacked.

I think Ream is not strong enough to be a CB in English football. Bottom line. And I doubt that can be rectified short of him learning a new position. Which looks unlikely.
Mills just hasn't shown anything since being here. Which is a shame as he used to be a decent enough player for this level. Don't know what the issue is, but he's not performed since leaving Reading.
Wheater is a bit of an unknown but I suspect with the right partner would be fine.
Knight for me is not as bad as people make out. Again with the right partner he can be ok.

Now Dawson came in last season and made a huge difference. For me not because he's an "outstanding player" which he may well go on to be but he's not there yet, but because he complimented what we had in the back four, and had a confidence and assurance that rubbed off on the others. He also organised them in a way none of our existing players seem to be able to do. Possibly because he was assured and calm and that leads to being able to shout at others a bit and have them listen. He's not particularly quick nor brilliant on the ball or any of those things, but the key for me is he's an anticipator a reader of the game, someone who senses danger and reacts pre-emptively.

The issue with Knight, Wheater, Mills partly for me is that they're all reactors. They pretty much all back off players and cover areas and stand their ground. But none of them nick a ball off the striker high up the pitch, none of them instinctively cover the other defender when they sense a player is about to get "done", they just don't read it that well. Plenty of players like that, some exceptionally good. It's not something that really can be learned, it's more of a talent I'd say. I'd go back to the days under Rioch when Simon Coleman came into a somewhat struggling defence and made it seem a lot better and for me he was similar to Dawson in many ways. Gudni Bergsson is another example, a reader of the game who went well alongside a more "stand and deliver" type like Whitlow or Hendry.

I think that is the main issue at centre half IMO. We haven't got a balance, haven't got that game reading quality at the back and it makes players seem worse for me. Knight for example looked better alongside Dawson. Sure there were still mistakes, though every defender makes those errors. I just think that we haven't as yet found a natural partnership. And that is a big thing IMO.

You had me more or less on board until this, lack of reaction seems to be just one of the difficulties they have in the cupboard.

Yeah but because they react to danger rather than pre-empt it, often makes them look well behind the pace. Reality is that if we had someone alongside one of them who could read the game like Dawson did, I think it'd be a better partnership.

I don't want to put too fine a point on it but player A moves and they hardly react being 'thought, pause, reaction, goal' seems to be the standard!

[ChrisC]

If we don't get another centre back in then I at least hope we get Spearing back. Having Medo and Spearing sat in front of the soft central defence will help things.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

If we don't get another centre back in then I at least hope we get Spearing back. Having Medo and Spearing sat in front of the soft central defence will help things.

Where are you playing Holden? Apparantly he's the messiah and our midfield saviour (and a naughty boy for losing the pen).

[ChrisC]

If we don't get another centre back in then I at least hope we get Spearing back. Having Medo and Spearing sat in front of the soft central defence will help things.

Where are you playing Holden? Apparantly he's the messiah and our midfield saviour (and a naughty boy for losing the pen).

Rotation Mr Twin

Holden, Medo & Spearing are a good central trio to rotate as and when Dougie wants.

Throw in Pratley with his energy and we have 4 good central midfielders IMO.

Vela and Andrews as backup if we have any injuries.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

You had me there Chris...right up to your bit on Pratley

[ChrisC]

You had me there Chris...right up to your bit on Pratley

You can't deny he runs and runs and runs. Good for chasing down the opposition.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

You had me there Chris...right up to your bit on Pratley

You can't deny he runs and runs and runs

Yeah, but shit can run and run...and that isn't a good thing

[bobo the clown]

You had me there Chris...right up to your bit on Pratley

You can't deny he runs and runs and runs

Yeah, but shit can run and run...and that isn't a good thing

He did show himself to add something to the team last season. Not a World beater, but vastly better than in his first season.

I think we could afford to lose him ... especially if it gave funds/wages which could let us go for a Spearing or Dawson, but while he's here he's OK.

[boltonboris]

He's fecking shit. And he doesn't really press the opposition. He tries. But he's shit, so they just play a little triangle around him and take him completely out of the game in two 5 yard passes. Watch the opening few seconds of the Shrewsbury match. It completely sums him up.