Today I'm angry about.....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

haven't we got project managers on this forum?

Is that why the discussions just go round in circles?

[Lord Kangana]

haven't we got project managers on this forum?

Are you suggesting we need them?

[thebish]

haven't we got project managers on this forum?

Are you suggesting we need them?

i don't know - i don't think one has ever got involved with my life...

are there any on here who would care to own up to being one??

[Lord Kangana]

That was meant to be a joke. I suspect trying to explain it will only exacerbate the situation...

[thebish]

That was meant to be a joke. I suspect trying to explain it will only exacerbate the situation...

oh - i know it was - but (never having been involved with one) I am interested as to why they appear to be about as popular as paedophile priests, estate agents and politicians!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

That was meant to be a joke. I suspect trying to explain it will only exacerbate the situation...

oh - i know it was - but (never having been involved with one) I am interested as to why they appear to be about as popular as paedophile priests, estate agents and politicians!

Gantt charts and holes in the head

[BWFC_Insane]

That was meant to be a joke. I suspect trying to explain it will only exacerbate the situation...

oh - i know it was - but (never having been involved with one) I am interested as to why they appear to be about as popular as paedophile priests, estate agents and politicians!

Probably because in many cases they get stuck between senior management and the expert grunts on the floor.

And both sides hate them and blame them equally.

A project manager leads on the project but doesn't necessarily have any management responsibility for the people undertaking it. So they have to get the skilled technical staff to work to deadlines that they have agreed with the stakeholders and project board (senior management in reality) and effectively they play a juggling role between the two sides. And unless they are incredibly skilled they are just seen as at best uneccessary and at worst interfering busy bodies by the underlings and as incompetent failures by senior management when inevitably the underlings fail to deliver on time.

And to add often they are appointed when it is not necessary to have a project manager as the project is not complex enough or doesn't involve enough people to warrant one. Which causes further angst. Clearly project management is always necessary but in those more simple cases someone can do it tacked on to their existing role, rather than a specialist PM being brought in.

[Lord Kangana]

grunts on the floor.


underlings, underlings fail to deliver on time.

specialist PM.

you're a project manager, aren't you?

[BWFC_Insane]

grunts on the floor.


underlings, underlings fail to deliver on time.

specialist PM.

you're a project manager, aren't you?

Funnily enough no. I've worked with a lot of project managers though.

I'm glad you picked up on my use of language.

[Bruce Rioja]

grunts on the floor.
underlings fail to deliver on time.

That's shop floor-ist that is. Get yourself off to HR.

[BWFC_Insane]

grunts on the floor.
underlings fail to deliver on time.

That's shop floor-ist that is. Get yourself off to HR.

Sorry "skilled technicians".

[bobo the clown]

Because they are knobs !


More properly, the very concept of a PM is that they have an objective. Within that there are many smaller objectives with dates, costs and quality to be attained but they are paid (& often gain hefty bonus') to achieve their targets. These, however, are achieved by keeping a blinkered, one-eyed approach and to offer no lee-way to the people they have set targets for. They cannot take any interest in individual groups and their whinging or excuses and will never revise time-scales which are often apparently unrealistic. They do this without any obvious attempt to empathise ... or even give the faintest shit at all. They pressurise and push people who actually do the work involved and get little thanks or appreciation.

They are actually tasked with being unreasonable because reasonable people accept excuses and miss targets.

Then, after all that ... it's THEY who get the bonus' for achieving the objective.

I've suffered under a few and I've been that person once or twice.

[BWFC_Insane]

Because they are knobs !


More properly, the very concept of a PM is that they have an objective. Within that there are many smaller objectives with dates, costs and quality to be attained but they are paid (& often gain hefty bonus') to achieve their targets. These, however, are achieved by keeping a blinkered, one-eyed approach and to offer no lee-way to the people they have set targets for. They cannot take any interest in individual groups and their whinging or excuses and will never revise time-scales which are often apparently unrealistic. They do this without any obvious attempt to empathise ... or even give the faintest shit at all. They pressurise and push people who actually do the work involved and get little thanks or appreciation.

They are actually tasked with being unreasonable because reasonable people accept excuses and miss targets.

Then, after all that ... it's THEY who get the bonus' for achieving the objective.

I've suffered under a few and I've been that person once or twice.

I've rarely known PM's who are paid to hit targets, more ones who are sacked for not doing. Aren't they in essence a buffer between the target setters and the deliverers of those targets? They get paid to take shit from both sides and make sure that whatever target is set is met or as close to met as possible.

Can see why they're not liked but from the ones I've worked with the stress can be pretty awful.

[thebish]

Because they are knobs !


More properly, the very concept of a PM is that they have an objective. Within that there are many smaller objectives with dates, costs and quality to be attained but they are paid (& often gain hefty bonus') to achieve their targets. These, however, are achieved by keeping a blinkered, one-eyed approach and to offer no lee-way to the people they have set targets for. They cannot take any interest in individual groups and their whinging or excuses and will never revise time-scales which are often apparently unrealistic. They do this without any obvious attempt to empathise ... or even give the faintest shit at all. They pressurise and push people who actually do the work involved and get little thanks or appreciation.

They are actually tasked with being unreasonable because reasonable people accept excuses and miss targets.

Then, after all that ... it's THEY who get the bonus' for achieving the objective.

I've suffered under a few and I've been that person once or twice.

at last - someone prepared to own up to being one!

[bobo the clown]

I've rarely known PM's who are paid to hit targets, more ones who are sacked for not doing. Aren't they in essence a buffer between the target setters and the deliverers of those targets? They get paid to take shit from both sides and make sure that whatever target is set is met or as close to met as possible.

Maybe your ones are more functionary, the ones I know usually can get bonus, assuming they hit targets.

But yes, they get pressure from their own bosses as they too get bonus' (only bigger, usually) ... and on, and on, ad infinitum.


Oh ... & grunts. What a term. Who on Earth introduced you to that ?

[malcd1]

I've rarely known PM's who are paid to hit targets, more ones who are sacked for not doing. Aren't they in essence a buffer between the target setters and the deliverers of those targets? They get paid to take shit from both sides and make sure that whatever target is set is met or as close to met as possible.

Can see why they're not liked but from the ones I've worked with the stress can be pretty awful.

No. They are paid to take shit off the target setters. They then pass the shit on to the 'grunts' who do all the work.

[BWFC_Insane]

I've rarely known PM's who are paid to hit targets, more ones who are sacked for not doing. Aren't they in essence a buffer between the target setters and the deliverers of those targets? They get paid to take shit from both sides and make sure that whatever target is set is met or as close to met as possible.

Can see why they're not liked but from the ones I've worked with the stress can be pretty awful.

No. They are paid to take shit off the target setters. They then pass the shit on to the 'grunts' who do all the work.

Yeah kind of but it's usually a two way process getting hammered from both sides.

Not something I'd want to do.

[Lord Kangana]

And we're back to The Peter Principle.

[Worthy4England]

Because they are knobs !

More properly, the very concept of a PM is that they have an objective. Within that there are many smaller objectives with dates, costs and quality to be attained but they are paid (& often gain hefty bonus') to achieve their targets. These, however, are achieved by keeping a blinkered, one-eyed approach and to offer no lee-way to the people they have set targets for. They cannot take any interest in individual groups and their whinging or excuses and will never revise time-scales which are often apparently unrealistic. They do this without any obvious attempt to empathise ... or even give the faintest shit at all. They pressurise and push people who actually do the work involved and get little thanks or appreciation.

They are actually tasked with being unreasonable because reasonable people accept excuses and miss targets.

Then, after all that ... it's THEY who get the bonus' for achieving the objective.

I've suffered under a few and I've been that person once or twice.

I'd like to offer a counter, that actually they're very theraputic.

Especially when listening to some of their explanations of why said Project isn't on track and watching them squirm.

You fecking HR folk and yer empathy. No wonder Britain's in this fecking mess.

[bobo the clown]

You fecking HR folk and yer empathy. No wonder Britain's in this fecking mess.

I resent that Worthy. You stab at my heart .... even if you find there isn't one. I've never been accused of having empathy. Ever.