Dougie Freedman - Ten Months On

[BWFC_Insane]

Managers who talk about performances being more important than points scare me.

[thebish]

"the science people behind the training tell me it's been good."

*some quote from zat knight about not doing defensive training anymore*

really?? I didn't get that far!!

He's taking the Coyle again.....

ahh - i see - very clever...

i picked out the quote there because i think it is interesting - the science approach - and how deep it goes... Dougie refers to the scientists' opinions on whether the training sessions were good this week before saying that his own eye thought they were OK too! Not saying this is bad - but I do think it's interesting. I can hear the sound of old-school managers turning in their graves...

presumably he means that the scientists have confirmed that the sessions are at the right level to improve fitness and not risk injury etc..

I hope at least some of it was the strikers practicing putting the ball in the net - and that dougie doesn't need a scientist to tell him whether that was successful...

[thebish]

Managers who talk about performances being more important than points scare me.

indeed... points at the start of the season are worth exactly as much as points at the end (you may argue) they are easier to come by...

[BWFC_Insane]

Managers who talk about performances being more important than points scare me.

indeed... points at the start of the season are worth exactly as much as points at the end (you may argue) they are easier to come by...

It is all very 'Allardycesque' including the scientific training approach etc up until the "I'm not worried about points bit".

I get his meaning that get performances right and points will follow. And anyone who sits and worries about a league table at this stage wants their bumps feeling.

But we don't want to become obsessed with the performance and ignore the result. When we're playing badly (and we will plenty of times) we need to be able to scrape points out. We look more capable of that but I would rather have a manager who talks about points first performances second, personally.

[Bruce Rioja]

Managers who talk about performances being more important than points scare me.

At this point in the season I'm absolutely fine with that.

[Wandering Willy]

I would rather have a manager who talks about points first performances second, personally.

Is this the start of one of your u turns?

[thebish]

Managers who talk about performances being more important than points scare me.

At this point in the season I'm absolutely fine with that.

at which point of the season do you stop being fine with that?

[BWFC_Insane]

I would rather have a manager who talks about points first performances second, personally.

Is this the start of one of your u turns?

Of course not. People try to polarise views on here. I think he's a good manager and the best we've had since Allardyce.

Doesn't mean I've got to agree with every single thing he says or does.

Allardyce did plenty I didn't always think was right. But I accepted he knew what he was doing and knew far more than I did.

Same with Douglas.

[Bruce Rioja]

Managers who talk about performances being more important than points scare me.

At this point in the season I'm absolutely fine with that.

at which point of the season do you stop being fine with that?

At the point at which three points don't automatically whizz you up the table a few places. It's a marathon not a sprint etc. etc. and Dougie setting his stall out so that the players know how to get the best out of one and other, and particularly out of Beckford, just now is fine by me.

[Lord Kangana]

I suspect the come down off this one is going to be like that scene out of Trainspotting. We'll just all have to be there for him and not judge when it does.

[thebish]

Managers who talk about performances being more important than points scare me.

At this point in the season I'm absolutely fine with that.

at which point of the season do you stop being fine with that?

At the point at which three points don't automatically whizz you up the table a few places. It's a marathon not a sprint etc. etc. and Dougie setting his stall out so that the players know how to get the best out of one and other, and particularly out of Beckford, just now is fine by me.

I don't disagree that much - but can't he also set his stall out whilst winning??

[thebish]

also - I'm not 100% sure that performances necessarily lead to points... (see many games filed under "Arsenal")

[Wandering Willy]

I would rather have a manager who talks about points first performances second, personally.

Is this the start of one of your u turns?

Of course not. People try to polarise views on here. I think he's a good manager and the best we've had since Allardyce.

Doesn't mean I've got to agree with every single thing he says or does.

Allardyce did plenty I didn't always think was right. But I accepted he knew what he was doing and knew far more than I did.

Same with Douglas.

Wait a minute - wouldn't you therefore have to pronounce yourself as a WUM?

[BWFC_Insane]

I suspect the come down off this one is going to be like that scene out of Trainspotting. We'll just all have to be there for him and not judge when it does.

I don't think anything will be as hard as your fall from your Coyle love in. Mind I was apparently just "moaning" then. Now I'm supposedly "smitten".

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Take Stuart Holden out of the squad and we've clearly not progressed at all.
The big question is whether Coyle can unearth "more Stuart Holdens" or whether that was a one off fluke.
The dissapointing thing for me is that not one of Coyle's signings last summer have made an impact. We need that to change this summer.
Ultimately as ever you can only judge the season on its finishing position and 14th is adequate but dissapointing at the same time. It could well be that it doesn't matter who we have in charge, Megson, Mourinho, Coyle etc 13th/14th may well be about as good as we can do come the end of the season. When you're carrying a small squad its bound to catch up with you at some point. But the signings of Petrov, Alonso, Rodrigo, Klasnic have hardly chipped in at a time when we could have used some of those backup players to freshen things up.

So, take the progress out of the progress, and we haven't progressed.
You love a good moan don't you?
Most points since 2006-07, furthest in the cups since 2004, at times some of the best play we've seen since The Galacticos were in their pomp.
Bring back Megson, it clearly hasn't changed.

[Lord Kangana]

That's still the bench mark. He has to get 47 Premier League points and a Cup Semi Final in one season to be our best manager since Allardyce. That's not opinion, its merely a statement of fact. Which was progress from Megson. Also a statement of fact.

So you're saying right now that he'll achieve that, or not?

[Bruce Rioja]

Managers who talk about performances being more important than points scare me.

At this point in the season I'm absolutely fine with that.

at which point of the season do you stop being fine with that?

At the point at which three points don't automatically whizz you up the table a few places. It's a marathon not a sprint etc. etc. and Dougie setting his stall out so that the players know how to get the best out of one and other, and particularly out of Beckford, just now is fine by me.

I don't disagree that much - but can't he also set his stall out whilst winning??

Of course, I'd prefer it if we were, but it isn't the be all and end all just now I feel. Especially given how he turned last season's debacle around and put together such a strong finish.

[thebish]

nahhh - it's not the be all and end all - I agree - but it's also not entirely unimportant!!

(also - if he turned a debacle around last season - and you're now trusting him to do it again - does that mean he has turned us back into a debacle? b )

[BWFC_Insane]

That's still the bench mark. He has to get 47 Premier League points and a Cup Semi Final in one season to be our best manager since Allardyce. That's not opinion, its merely a statement of fact. Which was progress from Megson. Also a statement of fact.

So you're saying right now that he'll achieve that, or not?

Technically, he'd have to beat Megson's 13th place premeirship finish. As Coyle never managed to do that. Or match it. A statement of fact. Another factual statement is that Coyle left the club 20 league places lower than where he took it over from.

I think he's the most capable manager we've had since Allardyce. That is my view. Based on what I have seen and heard and witnessed so far. If you note whilst others were still firmly aboard the Owen Coyle ship I was raising my own doubts. This is not some willy waggling contest, but I find it strange how I was accused of being "always negative" before now I'm apparently "too positive".

I simply reflect how I see things going. My own opinion of where we are.

And as for predicting points totals and achievements it is silly to try and do so. I think he is doing a good job, and putting the right things in place. Of course the acid test comes down to results on the pitch and how we progress in that regard. My own personal opinion is that I would be prepared to give him a lot more time than others simply because I think he is of the right mentality and ability.

That is my opinion and if you don't share it then fair enough.

But you were perfectly happy to profess your love for Owen Coyle early on in his reign. There is nothing wrong with that it is an opinion. It is unrealistic to go through supporting a football team with a totally neutral opinion until proven one way or another. It just doesn't work like that.

[thebish]

oooh goodie - a FACT battle!!

[Bruce Rioja]

nahhh - it's not the be all and end all - I agree - but it's also not entirely unimportant!!

(also - if he turned a debacle around last season - and you're now trusting him to do it again - does that mean he has turned us back into a debacle? b )

Not at all. Perhaps I didn't word it well. If he can do that with a debacle then I've every confidence in him with the current bunch of mainly good players.