Today I'm angry about.....

[Hoboh]

I would venture that Peruvian prison conditions never featured on TOWIE or whatever garbage they watched.

Edit.

I'd be very suprised if they knew were the hell Peru was.

Inadvertently, you've hit on a good point here - those most likely to commit crimes are amongst the least likely to watch the kind of TV programmes and read the kind of newspaper articles that cover sentencing policy.

This could drag us into a whole new field about how we educate our youth

Midnight Express and Bangkok Hilton certainly drove home what life could be like abroad if you fell the wrong side of their law.

[thebish]

Which I'm not arguing against. Neither did I ever claim locking them up for longer was an answer. My point was the fact that being locked up today is more Butlins than Bastille.

have you ever been in a proper prison, Tango?

I have (not as a 'guest' I hasten to add).

Wolds, Wakefield, Strangeways, Forrest Bank, Hull and a few 0pen prisons like Lancaster and Leyland in the course of my work.
I have also 'done' quite a few army and RAF and the odd Naval base and find the general conditions on these were in many respects poor compared to HMP.

so have i - both open prisons and "proper" prisons. Proper prisons are NOT like butlins - not even close. I suspect people get these notions from stories from open prisons - which are a very different thing and not what is generally being talked about when we talk about serious crime.

You kinda skipped the point there bish that facilities in 'proper' prisons are in the main better than that afforded to our armed services

hmmmm - not really sure what the point is, though! are you agreeing with tango that prisons are basically doss-houses with tvs, all-you-can-eat buffets, lay-z-boy armchairs and lapdancers on tap?

[BWFC_Insane]

I've been in a "real prison" and it was one of the most unpleasant places I've ever been, couldn't wait to get out (I wasn't a prisoner though!).

There is a point though that some (and not all but some) criminals are happy to be in prison because the conditions are better than the ones in which they live in the outside world.

Doesn't make prisons butlins of course. I think the issue is deterrent. But as demonstrated, greater deterrent does not seem to reduce crime.

[Hoboh]

No, I'm saying it should be at least t'other way round. I admit they are rather 'soul less places' but a shop doorway in Manchester in the middle of January puts that in perspective.

[thebish]

No, I'm saying it should be at least t'other way round. I admit they are rather 'soul less places' but a shop doorway in Manchester in the middle of January puts that in perspective.

hmmm.. i used to take soup and bread to people who lived in shop doorways every night around London... most of them would rather be in the shop doorway than in prison...

[Hoboh]

No, I'm saying it should be at least t'other way round. I admit they are rather 'soul less places' but a shop doorway in Manchester in the middle of January puts that in perspective.

hmmm.. i used to take soup and bread to people who lived in shop doorways every night around London... most of them would rather be in the shop doorway than in prison...

I'd venture a hospital would have been more suitable for most of them bish.

[Hoboh]

Anyway social issues aside no matter what you do there will always be and always has been crime, it will never be eliminated or eradicated completely (besides just what would we do with all the redundant lawyers and Judges).
What we need to do is cut the number of lesser crime that tends to manifest its self in greater crime when it becomes so prolific as it is and my answer would be to come down on this type of crime like the proverbial 'ton of bricks' alongside better education as to the results and consequences of falling foul of the law.
We need to teach the real meaning of respect and what responsibilities are and that this goes hand in hand with being successful and playing a full role in society.

[Hoboh]

I doubt this would sit comfortable with the 'Human Rights' mob though it may if publicised make some think twice.

The Real Bangkok Hilton

Thursday, 22 July, 2004

2100 BST on BBC Two (UK)


Two of the nine British prisoners in Bangkwang are Michael Connell and Andrew Hawke.

Michael, 19, a thin and frail supermarket worker from Manchester, was the first Briton to be arrested under new, harsher drug laws introduced by the Thai Government in 2003. He is the only foreigner in a dormitory of 1,000 and teaches his fellow inmates English to pass the time.

Andrew, who has served nearly six years of a 50-year sentence, talks freely of his foolish decision to smuggle heroin after an offer from a stranger in Amsterdam. "I really didn't want to do it" he says. "Everything screamed against me not to do it... but I went ahead and did it anyway."

The jail's transvestites share quarters. One smuggled drugs to pay for a breast augmentation and she now works for the prison television station BKP TV as a make-up artist.

In the prison hospital, patients are shackled to their beds. One stares vacantly into the camera as the doctor explains how Thai society is reluctant to donate medicine because it thinks the inmates deserve the suffering.

And then there are those on death row - the men just waiting to die. Each of them will get only two hours notice before they are executed by lethal injection.

The head executioner demonstrates his routine on an execution day for the crew, and the monk who administers the last rites - also on site - talks about why he thinks the condemned are "lucky" because they can prepare for death.

But luck is not a word usually associated with Bangkwang - for the prisoners or the guards.

In the last few years the prison's population has trebled to 7,000 - each inmate serving a sentence of more than 25 years - and the guards are out-numbered 50-1.

To try and ease this situation, some tough prisoners become "blue shirts" and are given the task of assisting the guards. But this simply creates more tension.

"Thai prisons are tough," says Director of Prisons Khun Nattee as a warning to tourists... "you don't want to be in Bangkwang."

The Real Bangkok Hilton was broadcast on Thursday, 22 July, 2004 at 2100 BST on BBC Two in the UK.

[thebish]

No, I'm saying it should be at least t'other way round. I admit they are rather 'soul less places' but a shop doorway in Manchester in the middle of January puts that in perspective.

hmmm.. i used to take soup and bread to people who lived in shop doorways every night around London... most of them would rather be in the shop doorway than in prison...

I'd venture a hospital would have been more suitable for most of them bish.

i think the landscape of street-homelessness has changed a lot since I was involved in it day-to-day... but mental illness has always been a significant factor... quite a lot of those we dealt with back then (over 20yrs ago!) were ex-forces - many simply couldn't cope with civvy street - the army having thoroughly institutionalised them...

[thebish]

I doubt this would sit comfortable with the 'Human Rights' mob though it may if publicised make some think twice.

and have those harsh conditions eradicated - or even cut - crime in Bangkok?

[Hoboh]

I doubt this would sit comfortable with the 'Human Rights' mob though it may if publicised make some think twice.

and have those harsh conditions eradicated - or even cut - crime in Bangkok?

Don't know TBH but I'm sure coupled with other measures it would help.

Maybe Sean could help you better than I

[Hoboh]

Seems so

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[TANGODANCER]

Which I'm not arguing against. Neither did I ever claim locking them up for longer was an answer. My point was the fact that being locked up today is more Butlins than Bastille.

have you ever been in a proper prison, Tango?

I own a TV set, and can watch and understand documentaries. I realise you'll know all about them, of course, but for what it's worth, I spent a short time on the wrong side of the bars once. Does that count?

[Montreal Wanderer]

Which I'm not arguing against. Neither did I ever claim locking them up for longer was an answer. My point was the fact that being locked up today is more Butlins than Bastille.

have you ever been in a proper prison, Tango?

I own a TV set, and can watch and understand documentaries. I realise you'll know all about them, of course, but for what it's worth, I spent a short time on the wrong side of the bars once. Does that count?

No, since you were probably too drunk to remember. I was.

[TANGODANCER]

Which I'm not arguing against. Neither did I ever claim locking them up for longer was an answer. My point was the fact that being locked up today is more Butlins than Bastille.

have you ever been in a proper prison, Tango?

I own a TV set, and can watch and understand documentaries. I realise you'll know all about them, of course, but for what it's worth, I spent a short time on the wrong side of the bars once. Does that count?

No, since you were probably too drunk to remember. I was.

Unfortunatey, Monty, I was stone-cold sober at the time.

[Il Pirate]

those most likely to commit crimes are amongst the least likely to watch the kind of TV programmes and read the kind of newspaper articles that cover sentencing policy.


You don't half talk some shite! Get your head out of your priveliged arse and and get real. If you had ever worked with the 'criminal fraternity', (not for them; with them. There's a massive difference). Do you not think educated people, ( & who reads sentencing policy apart from those who work in criminal justice?); commit crimes? Those who are most priveliged and well off are in the main, most likely to break the law. A poor man may steal a train; a rich man will steal the fvckin' network! (Oh they have already).......................

[Hoboh]

those most likely to commit crimes are amongst the least likely to watch the kind of TV programmes and read the kind of newspaper articles that cover sentencing policy.


You don't half talk some shite! Get your head out of your priveliged arse and and get real. If you had ever worked with the 'criminal fraternity', (not for them; with them. There's a massive difference). Do you not think educated people, ( & who reads sentencing policy apart from those who work in criminal justice?); commit crimes? Those who are most priveliged and well off are in the main, most likely to break the law. A poor man may steal a train; a rich man will steal the fvckin' network! (Oh they have already).......................

Sorry but even a half wit would find out what sort of bother they could find theirself in if they fell foul of the law, if they don't then screaming about Human rights is merely a cop out for their own stupidity.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

those most likely to commit crimes are amongst the least likely to watch the kind of TV programmes and read the kind of newspaper articles that cover sentencing policy.


You don't half talk some shite! Get your head out of your priveliged arse and and get real. If you had ever worked with the 'criminal fraternity', (not for them; with them. There's a massive difference). Do you not think educated people, ( & who reads sentencing policy apart from those who work in criminal justice?); commit crimes? Those who are most priveliged and well off are in the main, most likely to break the law. A poor man may steal a train; a rich man will steal the fvckin' network! (Oh they have already).......................

No, I have never worked with the criminal fraternity.

I said articles covering sentencing, not policy documents.

Actually it's true that one of the kind of crimes where stiffer sanctions do have a deterrent effect is white collar crime - precisely because the white collar crew do find about the penalty, think about it and come to a more 'rational decision' about whether or not to embark on the course of action.

The major academic studies I refer to above do make this distinction and say that white collar crime does not fit in with their findings about other types of criminality.

[Harry Genshaw]

Seems to me that very few posters on here have ever been to Butlins

[BWFC_Insane]

Seems to me that very few posters on here have ever been to Butlins