Dougie Freedman - Ten Months On

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

In itself it shouldn't be an unplanned expenditure: presumably we'd just have to negotiate a pay-off, maybe half his wages like Keith Andrews, and promote Jimmy Phillips.

But hey, it's not going to come to that.

[Il Pirate]

the first 10 minutes of that first home game will say a hell of a lot more. And Leeds will not be easy opponents.




It will in my opinion, tell us if the manager stays or goes. Leeds will be a great team to play after the int break. A full on, no holds barred type of game may inspire our lacklustre team. Or it may break them completely. However, even bottom of the pile at present, I'm not panicking too much. It is embarrassing though...........

[SmokinFrazier]

Again, a lot of truth here. Felt to me against QPR that many were waiting to be impressed, and it's a dangerous situation when you get the spectating equivalent of "floating voters". They may start by scapegoating players rather than the manager but it's not long till what was very recently the best fortress we've had in a generation becomes a place the players hate to be. And that isn't good considering that in away games we appear to be unutterably w*nk.

There'll be a fortnight of hand-wringing and forum face-offs and hopeful managerial quotes but the first 10 minutes of that first home game will say a hell of a lot more. And Leeds will not be easy opponents.

I agree with this. If we do concede an early goal against Leeds, that will turn the atmosphere at the ground and if we then go on to lose the game, it could easily be Freedman's last for us. If it's a tight loss, he'll probably be in charge for Derby but if we lose by another wide margin, he'll be out. So much rests on that first 10 minutes though, like you said. Get an early goal, lift the spirits in the ground and hopefully get a win. On the other hand, if we concede early, the crowd will be venomous and that itself might contribute to a bad defeat.

if we haven't got the cash to sign players - how on earth have we got the cash to sack the manager??

Can we afford not to replace him though? He's possibly a poor enough manager to get us relegated, which would be financially crippling, but on the other hand, if we were able to bring someone better in right now, we could still get promoted and get that massive financial reward from being in the Premier League. I think promotion and relegation are doubtful but those scenarios have to be taken into consideration.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I think promotion and relegation are doubtful

Don't rule either out until the leaves are back on the trees. In this division last season, there was only 14 points between the lowest play-off place* (68pts) and the highest relegation slot (54pts). That's only 20% of the higher total. (For comparison, in the division below it was 74pts > 48pts - more like 33% of the higher total.) So although there are lots of variables, and lots of other candidates in the middle, it doesn't take much of a swing for previous drop-dodgers to trouble the play-offs... or vice-versa.

*And, as it happens, Bolton Wanderers.

[thebish]

if we haven't got the cash to sign players - how on earth have we got the cash to sack the manager??

Can we afford not to replace him though? He's possibly a poor enough manager to get us relegated, which would be financially crippling, but on the other hand, if we were able to bring someone better in right now, we could still get promoted and get that massive financial reward from being in the Premier League. I think promotion and relegation are doubtful but those scenarios have to be taken into consideration.

I doubt eddie thinks he's getting his money back... so i doubt it makes much difference to him. I doubt there is a magic wand manager out there who will rush to our aide and bring us glorious promotion... as it probably looks to dougie - i can keep dougie - and probably finish mid-table - or spend a shedload of cash sacking him (and his staff) and bringing in a new lot - and still finish mid-table...

i still think it is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too soon to dump dougie... there's still plenty to play for... playoffs are still well within our reach (and the transfer/loans windows are not even shut yet)

frankly, I fond this whole sack-the-manager stuff depressing..

we've sacked Lee, Megson and Coyle - and we are now as low as we have been for a VERY long time - maybe it's time to stop being so fecking twitchy and play a longer game...

[Worthy4England]

if we haven't got the cash to sign players - how on earth have we got the cash to sack the manager??

Can we afford not to replace him though? He's possibly a poor enough manager to get us relegated, which would be financially crippling, but on the other hand, if we were able to bring someone better in right now, we could still get promoted and get that massive financial reward from being in the Premier League. I think promotion and relegation are doubtful but those scenarios have to be taken into consideration.

I doubt eddie thinks he's getting his money back... so i doubt it makes much difference to him. I doubt there is a magic wand manager out there who will rush to our aide and bring us glorious promotion... as it probably looks to dougie - i can keep dougie - and probably finish mid-table - or spend a shedload of cash sacking him (and his staff) and bringing in a new lot - and still finish mid-table...

i still think it is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too soon to dump dougie... there's still plenty to play for... playoffs are still well within our reach (and the transfer/loans windows are not even shut yet)

frankly, I fond this whole sack-the-manager stuff depressing..

we've sacked Lee, Megson and Coyle - and we are now as low as we have been for a VERY long time - maybe it's time to stop being so fecking twitchy and play a longer game...

You mean like Allardyce did?

I know you're not very reactionary and I'm not suggesting we should get rid of Freedman now, but out of those sackings (I think Lee was "by mutual consent"), I think we got shut of Megson at the right time and Coyle about 11 months too late.

[Wandering Willy]

Is it better to sack too early or too late?

Not sure how you would measure the former.

[Jez]

Its amazing that the idea of sacking Dougie would even be considered

Some of our fans are so fickle, this is the same manager who took us to within a game of the playoffs from nowhere, he deserves a hell of a lot longer than until the end of august to sort out the mess thats developing...

[thebish]

I really don't know - but after sacking three - maybe it's time to ask ourselves whether it is simply the manager at fault for what on earth is happening at the club.

i have no genius answers - but I am loathe to conclude that sacking Freedman any time soon is an answer to our situation...

as has been said before - maybe what the club actually needs is a long-term restructuring and reshaping - and maybe part of that is accepting that promotion isn't the be-all-and-end-all goal... maybe the stuff dougie has put in place - whatever that is - needs more time to bear fruit - and maybe we should simply be more patient...

unlessm of course, people really believe mad Mick is the answer!

i still like dougie - i don't fully understand him p and he's not a magician - but I still (perhaps naively) think he knows what he is doing and has the potential to build something worth building...

[Worthy4England]

Is it better to sack too early or too late?

Not sure how you would measure the former.

I think it depends on who you replace with - not meaning to make that sound twee.

I did some analysis (somewhere) a couple of years back on what had happened to Premier Teams that had sacked their manager and what time of the season they'd sacked them and whether they'd improved or not over the remainer of that season (so not longer term). I think there was something like 66% that had improved - which you'd sort of expect, given that they'd got round to the notion of sacking the incumbent, it can't have been going too well.

For a Club such as ours, I think unless you obviously land on someone who's on a roll, it's much of a muchness.

[Lord Kangana]

When does it become time to worry that maybe something is wrong? I find it impossible to believe that our squad's ability deservedly puts it bottom of the league, even with a handful of injuries. We got promoted with Ian Marshall, Frank Passi and John Ofukcing hell Kane playing for us. Gareth Farrelly was our one of our outstanding players FFS.

[Wandering Willy]

Its amazing that the idea of sacking Dougie would even be considered

Some of our fans are so fickle, this is the same manager who took us to within a game of the playoffs from nowhere, he deserves a hell of a lot longer than until the end of august to sort out the mess thats developing...

Don't think so.

Many on here, myself included, are focusing on the 10 game point at which to form a stronger opinion, but it's not surprising that sacking is being muted with 2 heavy defeats in the league and a loss to Tranmere in the last week.

It's hard for even the "10 gamers" to see any improvement atm so I can see why the idea would be entertained earlier.

[thebish]

When does it become time to worry that maybe something is wrong? I find it impossible to believe that our squad's ability deservedly puts it bottom of the league, even with a handful of injuries. We got promoted with Ian Marshall, Frank Passi and John Ofukcing hell Kane playing for us. Gareth Farrelly was our one of our outstanding players FFS.

i don't know... but i don't think it is now!

are you now in the BL3 and Frasier sack-Dougie camp?

[Lord Kangana]

I'm asking permission to worry. Can I?

[thebish]

I'm asking permission to worry. Can I?

no! cos if you do - in a few months time you'll be claiming you were panicking!

[Lord Kangana]

Don't panic. Ever.

[thebish]

Don't panic. Ever.

ok - you may worry - but only in a mild fashion!

[CrazyHorse]

Don't panic. Ever.

What if I'm running dangerously low on beer?

[Enoch]

maybe part of that is accepting that promotion isn't the be-all-and-end-all goal... maybe the stuff dougie has put in place - whatever that is - needs more time to bear fruit - and maybe we should simply be more patient...

....but I still (perhaps naively) think he knows what he is doing and has the potential to build something worth building...

See I'm completely in agreement with that, though evidence suggests not too many football clubs, nor football fans are.

Those that come on here pontificating (slipped that one in! ), given opportunity, would doubtless fare a whole lot worse than those they denigrate. I like the idea of building something, whether Freedman or anyone else ever gets the chance to do so I won't hold my breath.

I've mentioned it on here before, may well do so again, but most of us will remember when Ferguson was for the chop.

[Enoch]

What if I'm running dangerously low on beer?

Don't you just send the old lady down the offy?