Dougie Freedman - Ten Months On

[thebish]

maybe... but it negates the whole ethos of sports-sciency-fitness stuff if you are just gonna throw injured players on in a full-on local derby game...

other option - he just had a poor game?

Definitely that. Was in good company though!

indeed - but no need to speculate that he was still injured... maybe he just simply didn't have a good game - end of story?

[BWFC_Insane]

maybe... but it negates the whole ethos of sports-sciency-fitness stuff if you are just gonna throw injured players on in a full-on local derby game...

other option - he just had a poor game?

Definitely that. Was in good company though!

indeed - but no need to speculate that he was still injured... maybe he just simply didn't have a good game - end of story?

He didn't look right to me when warming up. I was surprised when he came on.

Perhaps he just hadn't had much training. I don't know.

[Lord Kangana]

Did the sports psychologists conclude the injury was all in his head, or the physio?

[TANGODANCER]

He didn't look right to me when warming up. I was surprised when he came on. Perhaps he just hadn't had much training. I don't know.

How does that one work? A professional manager lets someone play who doesn't look right when warming up? What didn't look right?

[thebish]

maybe... but it negates the whole ethos of sports-sciency-fitness stuff if you are just gonna throw injured players on in a full-on local derby game...

other option - he just had a poor game?

Definitely that. Was in good company though!

indeed - but no need to speculate that he was still injured... maybe he just simply didn't have a good game - end of story?

He didn't look right to me when warming up. I was surprised when he came on.

Perhaps he just hadn't had much training. I don't know.

or perhaps he was perfectly fine and just had a bad game...

[thebish]

maybe knight is carrying an injury??

[Lord Kangana]

Genius!

[89bwfc89]

He didn't look right to me when warming up. I was surprised when he came on. Perhaps he just hadn't had much training. I don't know.

How does that one work? A professional manager lets someone play who doesn't look right when warming up? What didn't look right?

He changed his boots mid-way through the warm up, I panicked at first, thought he was holding his ankle. He was definitely just changing his boots, he looked fine to me.

[LeverEnd]

He seems to be turning into Coyle MKII. Baffling set up, standardised subs based on favouritism. Complete ignorance of the defence. Sat on the bench scratching his head without a clue what's going on.

The similarities are becoming startling.

It's his fundamentalism regarding defensive systems which worries me. He sets out, a-la George Graham, hoping for a 1-0.

Now, I wouldn't enjoy that IF IT WORKED but until he sorts the defence and starts giving his forwards half a chance of getting service by not blocking the midfield with holding players we'll neither score goals nor attain the 'nils' required for holding onto.

See I don't agree. We're not throwing caution to the wind I'll agree with that.

But we went to Blackburn with 2 up front. The full backs both clearly told to overlap. Lee and Pratley given licence to get in the box

The selection for me was fine. Eagles was clearly not fit and sounds like Tierney wasn't either.

We actually created plenty of chances. And had more possession. And after the first 10 minutes or so looked the most likely team.

We looked comfortable.

But then once again mistakes and horrific, horrific defensive errors cost us.

You can play on the front foot as much as you want, but it is irrelevant if your centre back bottles out of a challenge when he's first to the ball with their striker. Or if your right back puts in one of the worst displays from a full back ever witnessed. Or if your other centre back gives the ball straight to one of theirs under little pressure.

Very true. Going forward we looked very good 2nd half til the gift goal knocked the stuffing out of everyone. We committed men forward for once and had a go. However we've got a striker who offers nothing when he doesn't score, and he's not scoring. That doesn't help.

[BWFC_Insane]

He seems to be turning into Coyle MKII. Baffling set up, standardised subs based on favouritism. Complete ignorance of the defence. Sat on the bench scratching his head without a clue what's going on.

The similarities are becoming startling.

It's his fundamentalism regarding defensive systems which worries me. He sets out, a-la George Graham, hoping for a 1-0.

Now, I wouldn't enjoy that IF IT WORKED but until he sorts the defence and starts giving his forwards half a chance of getting service by not blocking the midfield with holding players we'll neither score goals nor attain the 'nils' required for holding onto.

See I don't agree. We're not throwing caution to the wind I'll agree with that.

But we went to Blackburn with 2 up front. The full backs both clearly told to overlap. Lee and Pratley given licence to get in the box

The selection for me was fine. Eagles was clearly not fit and sounds like Tierney wasn't either.

We actually created plenty of chances. And had more possession. And after the first 10 minutes or so looked the most likely team.

We looked comfortable.

But then once again mistakes and horrific, horrific defensive errors cost us.

You can play on the front foot as much as you want, but it is irrelevant if your centre back bottles out of a challenge when he's first to the ball with their striker. Or if your right back puts in one of the worst displays from a full back ever witnessed. Or if your other centre back gives the ball straight to one of theirs under little pressure.

Very true. Going forward we looked very good 2nd half til the gift goal knocked the stuffing out of everyone. We committed men forward for once and had a go. However we've got a striker who offers nothing when he doesn't score, and he's not scoring. That doesn't help.

Agreed. Though he's gone from not getting a sniff to getting on the end of chances, so I'm hopeful it is a gradual progression.

[boltonboris]

He seems to be turning into Coyle MKII. Baffling set up, standardised subs based on favouritism. Complete ignorance of the defence. Sat on the bench scratching his head without a clue what's going on.

The similarities are becoming startling.

It's his fundamentalism regarding defensive systems which worries me. He sets out, a-la George Graham, hoping for a 1-0.

Now, I wouldn't enjoy that IF IT WORKED but until he sorts the defence and starts giving his forwards half a chance of getting service by not blocking the midfield with holding players we'll neither score goals nor attain the 'nils' required for holding onto.

See I don't agree. We're not throwing caution to the wind I'll agree with that.

But we went to Blackburn with 2 up front. The full backs both clearly told to overlap. Lee and Pratley given licence to get in the box

The selection for me was fine. Eagles was clearly not fit and sounds like Tierney wasn't either.

We actually created plenty of chances. And had more possession. And after the first 10 minutes or so looked the most likely team.

We looked comfortable.

But then once again mistakes and horrific, horrific defensive errors cost us.

You can play on the front foot as much as you want, but it is irrelevant if your centre back bottles out of a challenge when he's first to the ball with their striker. Or if your right back puts in one of the worst displays from a full back ever witnessed. Or if your other centre back gives the ball straight to one of theirs under little pressure.

"We looked comfortable"

Every time they got the ball they created a chance!!!!!

[boltonboris]

We were absolutely disgustingly atrocious and if that was a different manager, you'd be going absolutely chicken.

[plymouth wanderer]

Absolutely chicken????

[boltonboris]

Mental (chicken oriental). All the kids are saying it. Even the blind ones who can't see even the most obvious things.

[plymouth wanderer]

Ah... must be a northern thing

As you were!

[SmokinFrazier]

It frustrates me that someone would actually argue that our defence isn't terrible. How can anyone watching the games not see what is happening? Our defenders run around like headless chickens without the slightest clue of what they're supposed to be doing. That's what causes the individual errors, not that the players have suddenly all become inept overnight. That indecision is the issue with our defence right now and it stems from the fact that even though Freedman has been here for a long time now and has often talked much about building a strong defence, we're still as shambolic as we were under Coyle, who was rightly slaughtered for our weak defence. I guess as long as the manager talks a good game, it doesn't matter whether it's true or not. Maybe if also Freedman starts to emphasise that he thinks our creative play is good, people will ignore the fact that in some games, like Cardiff last year, despite us having plenty of possession, our lone striker didn't receive a single pass in an entire half.

Players don't suddenly become error prone. Any time you'll see a side that is low on confidence and has issues with miscommunication, you see individual errors popping up, even at the very highest level. It has nothing to do with the abilities of the players. As much as he's disliked on here, someone like Zat Knight is better than his mistakes make him seem at times. He's just unfortunate enough to be playing in a horribly managed defence, which has no idea what it's doing as a unit. We are all over the place and whilst it's easy for fans to boo Knight and our other defenders, the real blame should be placed on Freedman. He's not personally responsible for misplaced passes, bad tackles and things like that, but he is responsible for the indecision within our team which then causes individual mistakes.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Where do I start with this?!

It frustrates me that someone would actually argue that our defence isn't terrible. How can anyone watching the games not see what is happening? Our defenders run around like headless chickens

Have I missed someone saying our defence is ace? I'd be surprised if anyone has.

Our defenders run around like headless chickens without the slightest clue of what they're supposed to be doing. That's what causes the individual errors, not that the players have suddenly all become inept overnight.

Individual errors are caused by individuals. The clue is in the phrase. There are many factors that contribute to errors. I wont list them all, but they do include: lack of concentration, lack of confidence, over confidence, pressure and lack of effort/care. I would say all but over confidence is playing a part in the errors, with lack of care and effort a possibility with some players. Dougie and his team can help players overcome those issues, but like most things it comes down to the player's desire.

The other thing that is happening is that some players are not pulling their weight. This means players are being pulled out of position and are in 2 minds trying to cover. The defence possibly needs drilling more, but you can't coach players to not give a shit about tracking someone.

Confidence is low and it is Dougie's job to deal with that. The fans can play a part and really get behind the team at matches as well. But ultimately the players need to take a look at themselves and take some responsibility. The senior players have enough experience and coaching in the bank to be able to know what they should be doing and pull the team together. Funnily enough the defence is where we have lots of that experience. Knight and Wheater should be organising and pointing, they should be getting upset at what is happening around them and not watching with a perplexed or vacant look on their face.

Dougie has to take responsibility too. He needs to drop at least one of Wheater and Knight, even if only for a couple of games. He needs to send a message. Unless Mills is going out on loan next week then he needs to play. He could hardly be any worse than the incumbents.

[LeverEnd]

Individual errors are caused by individuals. The clue is in the phrase. There are many factors that contribute to errors. I wont list them all, but they do include: lack of concentration, lack of confidence, over confidence, pressure and lack of effort/care. I would say all but over confidence is playing a part in the errors, with lack of care and effort a possibility with some players. Dougie and his team can help players overcome those issues, but like most things it comes down to the player's desire.

Agreed. It is quite ridiculous to say our defence is terrible and then absolve the players of blame and pin it all on the manager because you don't like him and want him replaced.
Yes he should be able to get more out of that defence and he probably will. However you have to ask how many of them are his signings? 3 of the 4 at Blackburn weren't*, and the one that was had to play out of position because of injuries and also scored our only goal. He's tried to work with them, realised they are rubbish and wants rid but can't through no fault of his own. Now he has the old silk purse/sow's ear challenge which will be a real test of his man management skills. He needs to start by backing up his words after the match. He might be powerless to move players out, but he's not powerless to drop them.

*I know people will say he re-signed Wheater, but he had to given what we paid for him and have invested in him and his age. Would he have signed Wheater as a new player? i doubt it.

[Lord Kangana]

Why did he have to re-sign him? We paid £2m for him 2 and 1/2 years ago. How is that relevant? We signed Zat Knight for £4m. Is that why he's captain? Its like these things happened by accident.

[LeverEnd]

Why did he have to re-sign him? We paid £2m for him 2 and 1/2 years ago. How is that relevant? We signed Zat Knight for £4m. Is that why he's captain? Its like these things happened by accident.

Because he's had a long injury and played very few games for that investment. Because he's still young, has an England cap and would command a decent fee if he rediscovers some form. Imagine if he started to play well then left for nothing? There would be uproar. There's no accident about it, entirely different from the Knight debacle. Re-signing him on reduced terms was definitely the right thing to do IMO. It's not like we are blessed with brillient centre halves.
I'd not question Dougie's re-signing him, but I'd ask questions about why he looks so unfit, slow and out of form after a full preseason and with the backing of the famous sports science department and Dougie's apparently brilliant coaching team.