Freedman out!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Because that would be four games different, or a tenth of the season, maybe?
Ahh thebish has posted and justified my amateur mathematics...

[mrplow]

Southampton and Norwich managed it.

Via League One.

Correct. My point stands.

[thebish]

Because that would be four games different, or a tenth of the season, maybe?
Ahh thebish has posted and justified my amateur mathematics...

that's actually very good - shows a working knowledge of fractions! go to the top of the class!

[Il Pirate]

What's Mancini up to ? ................

[Prufrock]

Go on then I'll bite.

If one game was obviously too short a period of time after which to say Arsenal weren't in a relegation dog-fight, why is five games not too short a period of time in which to say 'we can't consider ourselves more attractive than Burnley or Barnsley' because we're below them in the table?

well - I did a maths degree - so, for very starters I shall share some of my accumulated knowledge with you...

1 < 5

(the symbol in the middle is maths-code for "less then")

also - and more importantly - my point was the outrage with which barnsley and burnley were repeatedly mentioned across several posts - as if a player choosing to go to them rather than us is preposterous, simply due to the natural order of things. To illustrate this - i pointed to a simple and obvious fact - we are below them in the table.

I do not believe that the obvious end point of my post is that Arsenal were in a relegation dog-fight after one game.

You faux-condesension is all well and good, but we both know your obvious implication after Arsenal's opening day defeat was that you can't tell a great deal from the table after one game. My point is that, allowing for the illuminating statement that five is more than one, five is also a low number, and I'd be fairly wary about predicting the end look of the table based on current placings.

It's a perfectly reasonable thing to say that we're a more attractive prospect than Burnley or Barnsley. A player offered the same money by all three, with no pre-disposed loyalties, is likely to pick the one with the state of the art training ground and stadium, expensively assembled squad, who finished seventh last year.

That's not anyone saying that we have a right to finish above anyone, but the fairly (ish) objective statement that we'd be a more attractive choice to an outsider.

To put it another way, do you think Fellaini would have picked Stoke over Utd? 3 is more than 1. 3 out of 38 isn't that different to 5 out of 46.

[Lord Kangana]

After the managers statement on saturday, do you not think it possible that players thought giving us a wide berth was probably in their best interests? Not nice being at a club in turmoil, is it?

Anyway, I don't know why everyones getting their knickers in a twist, its a bloody headline designed to whip up interest on a slow day. Its a bit like asking me if I want free tickets to Disneyland, then printing that I'd love to go there, its my lifes ambition, when I say yes. And it looks like the lads got a keep-net full of whoppers. They were never coming.

[thebish]

You faux-condesension is all well and good, but we both know your obvious implication after Arsenal's opening day defeat was that you can't tell a great deal from the table after one game. My point is that, allowing for the illuminating statement that five is more than one, five is also a low number, and I'd be fairly wary about predicting the end look of the table based on current placings.

the condescension wasn't in the least bit faux!

I'd also be wary of predicting the end look of the table based on current placings. but then - as I haven't done that - I won't lose any sleep tonight!

PS - nice deduction, which shows mathematical potential..

I said 1 < 5

you have successfully deduced that 5 > 1 - which as also true! bravo!

[Prufrock]

I think if you look carefully I also deduced that 5>3>1. So ha!

I also reckon saying Arsenal aren't in a dogfight after one game, but players will take into account us being below Burnley and Barnsley (just) after five is a little contradictory, but if you don't we'll agree to disagree .

[thebish]

I think if you look carefully I also deduced that 5>3>1. So ha!

I'm very proud of you! you'll go far...

[LeverEnd]

After the managers statement on saturday, do you not think it possible that players thought giving us a wide berth was probably in their best interests? Not nice being at a club in turmoil, is it?

Anyway, I don't know why everyones getting their knickers in a twist, its a bloody headline designed to whip up interest on a slow day. Its a bit like asking me if I want free tickets to Disneyland, then printing that I'd love to go there, its my lifes ambition, when I say yes. And it looks like the lads got a keep-net full of whoppers. They were never coming.

No. More like the chance to nail down a first team berth at a reasonably big club after being signed by a manager who clearly chose and wanted them. And I think turmoil is a bit strong, we're just playing shit.

[Lord Kangana]

Merely a reference to the events of the weekend. Lose horribly, public criticism of players, supposed frustration of the manager at a u-turn by the board at not backing him in th market (I can only quote BWFCi as a source on this, but he says its direct from the managers mouth). Apparently financial ruin, bottom of the league, 5 losses on the spin.

If I were an outside observer, I'd be concluding it looked a little like turmoil.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Merely a reference to the events of the weekend. Lose horribly, public criticism of players, supposed frustration of the manager at a u-turn by the board at not backing him in th market (I can only quote BWFCi as a source on this, but he says its direct from the managers mouth). Apparently financial ruin, bottom of the league, 5 losses on the spin.

If I were an outside observer, I'd be concluding it looked a little like turmoil.

Armaggedon, even.

[bwfcdan94]

Were not in turmoil yet, Blackburn now they were in turmoil but were not yet, ask me again at the end of October.

[BL3]

Southampton and Norwich managed it.

Via League One.

Correct. My point stands.

So we should drop into League One in order to give the youngsters a chance? Have you contacted Eddie Davies about this cunning plan?

[LeverEnd]

Southampton and Norwich managed it.

Via League One.

Correct. My point stands.

So we should drop into League One in order to give the youngsters a chance? Have you contacted Eddie Davies about this cunning plan?

As if he said that! They dropped further and harder than us and came back is the point. And it was probably a great journey for the fans. How dare mrplow suggest it might not all be doom and gloom.

[mrplow]

Southampton and Norwich managed it.

Via League One.

Correct. My point stands.

So we should drop into League One in order to give the youngsters a chance? Have you contacted Eddie Davies about this cunning plan?

No, because that wasn't what I said. I was pointing out that they prove that you can drop out of the PL after a number of years, struggle to adapt, but eventually get back there again. Ideally we will get promoted this year, but if we don't, it's not the kiss of death that was being made out.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Southampton and Norwich managed it.

Via League One.

Correct. My point stands.

So we should drop into League One in order to give the youngsters a chance? Have you contacted Eddie Davies about this cunning plan?

No, because that wasn't what I said. I was pointing out that they prove that you can drop out of the PL after a number of years, struggle to adapt, but eventually get back there again. Ideally we will get promoted this year, but if we don't, it's not the kiss of death that was being made out.

Some of us (me), who are making this kiss of death assessment, are doing so because we (I) believe that the landscape has changed significantly. Instead of the old landscape where the heady heights of the Premiership dropped off to the rolling hills of the Championship and then to the ploughed fields of League One and Two, whereby Southampton and Norwich managed a gentle hike back up to the plateau; now we are faced with a sheer cliff separating the plateau from the rolling hills and those that get pushed off the plateau have a parachute and crampons for the descent and ascent already supplied. If we don't make that plateau before the cliff grows too tall we'll probably never make the climb back up...

[mrplow]

No, because that wasn't what I said. I was pointing out that they prove that you can drop out of the PL after a number of years, struggle to adapt, but eventually get back there again. Ideally we will get promoted this year, but if we don't, it's not the kiss of death that was being made out.

Some of us (me), who are making this kiss of death assessment, are doing so because we (I) believe that the landscape has changed significantly. Instead of the old landscape where the heady heights of the Premiership dropped off to the rolling hills of the Championship and then to the ploughed fields of League One and Two, whereby Southampton and Norwich managed a gentle hike back up to the plateau; now we are faced with a sheer cliff separating the plateau from the rolling hills and those that get pushed off the plateau have a parachute and crampons for the descent and ascent already supplied. If we don't make that plateau before the cliff grows too tall we'll probably never make the climb back up...

That analogy is so beautifully structured I wouldn't dream of arguing with it.

I guess if anyone gets promoted this year who wasn't relegated in the last two years then there is still hope. I do agree with you that it's probably getting harder.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

No, because that wasn't what I said. I was pointing out that they prove that you can drop out of the PL after a number of years, struggle to adapt, but eventually get back there again. Ideally we will get promoted this year, but if we don't, it's not the kiss of death that was being made out.

Some of us (me), who are making this kiss of death assessment, are doing so because we (I) believe that the landscape has changed significantly. Instead of the old landscape where the heady heights of the Premiership dropped off to the rolling hills of the Championship and then to the ploughed fields of League One and Two, whereby Southampton and Norwich managed a gentle hike back up to the plateau; now we are faced with a sheer cliff separating the plateau from the rolling hills and those that get pushed off the plateau have a parachute and crampons for the descent and ascent already supplied. If we don't make that plateau before the cliff grows too tall we'll probably never make the climb back up...

That analogy is so beautifully structured I wouldn't dream of arguing with it.

I guess if anyone gets promoted this year who wasn't relegated in the last two years then there is still hope. I do agree with you that it's probably getting harder.

Yes, even I (Mr Pessimism) hold out a small wee hope that we can nick somebody's crampons [find a starlet or two amongst the yoof].

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Yes, even I (Mr Pessimism) hold out a small wee hope that we can nick somebody's crampons [find a starlet or two amongst the yoof].

I hate that word. Really fecking hate it.

That is all.