Today I'm angry about.....

[Bruce Rioja]

I'd piss it

Actually, it's a good point. On a recent speed awareness course I was appalled at my own lack of knowledge of the Highway Code.

Oh, and thebish would get his dog collar on to do is. Don't deny it, Sunshine.

[thebish]

I'd piss it

Actually, it's a good point. On a recent speed awareness course I was appalled at my own lack of knowledge of the Highway Code.

Oh, and thebish would get his dog collar on to do is. Don't deny it, Sunshine.

good idea - i missed a trick there!! of course - i would walk the highway code - I only passed that a few years ago (for the bike test) - and got 100% - go me!! - the driving a car on the road test - hmmm... hands at ten to two?? err...

I always used to get ticked off by my driving instructor - and indeed my bike instructor for never bothering to look in mirrors... I was - but i was just moving my eyes - not my head - so they couldn't see me do it - this is especially the case on a bike test where he is riding behind you.

so - instructor's tip-of-the day... do what you normally do - but every couple of minutes - move your head AS IF you were looking in your mirrors - you don't ACTUALLY have to look... I'm sure that's what got me through!

[Montreal Wanderer]

I think the only reason my missus passed, on about her 5th go was that she was about 8 months gone, and the Examiner just wanted her out of the car!

I passed first time - but then, i think it was easier to pass back then... It'd be interesting to see how many of us old fogies could get straight into a driving-test situation - and/or the theory/hazard-perception test without further preparation and pass first time...

I passed first time in 1971. It wasn't considered easy and about half the people failed. Actually most examiners passed over 60% but there was one examiner who failed some 75% to restore the average. After all these years when I have forgotten so much, I remember his name - Harry Start! We trembled in fear that we might get him. While I'd love to boast I passed despite getting him, in truth I was one of the lucky ones who avoided him. As I recall no one tested us on knowledge of the highway code - it was basically a 45 minute road test with the hill starts, 3 point turns, emergency stops, etc. In Canada the road test was very brief (once round the block) but there was a written test on the code and a series of tests on machines that checked your eyesight, dexterity, reflexes, etc. Different approaches.

[Montreal Wanderer]

I wouldn't! My main point is that people should chill the f*ck out about it!

A pedant would also point out that, unless you've been walking along a harbour, you're unlikely to have seen three examples of the Union Jack being flown, but, as I'm not a pedant... .

We are obviously a very patriotic part of the country. The three examples are all within an easy twenty minute stroll, two of them in the same village - Bonsall.

I think he is referring to use of the word "jack" rather than the number of said flags....

When I lived in England in the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s I'm fairly sure the flag was always referred to as the Union Jack. The Union Flag was new to me and I would have guessed it referred to the Stars and Stripes in the American Civil War. How about it Tango?

[Bruce Rioja]

^^ I think it's only ever the Union Jack if it's being flown on a ship. Most people here still call it the Union Jack but there's never a tedious knob too far away ready to jump in with a "Excuse me, but I think you'll find........"

[thebish]

I wouldn't! My main point is that people should chill the f*ck out about it!

A pedant would also point out that, unless you've been walking along a harbour, you're unlikely to have seen three examples of the Union Jack being flown, but, as I'm not a pedant... .

We are obviously a very patriotic part of the country. The three examples are all within an easy twenty minute stroll, two of them in the same village - Bonsall.

I think he is referring to use of the word "jack" rather than the number of said flags....

When I lived in England in the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s I'm fairly sure the flag was always referred to as the Union Jack. The Union Flag was new to me and I would have guessed it referred to the Stars and Stripes in the American Civil War. How about it Tango?

are you suggesting the distinction is a post 1960 invention?

[TANGODANCER]

I wouldn't! My main point is that people should chill the f*ck out about it!

A pedant would also point out that, unless you've been walking along a harbour, you're unlikely to have seen three examples of the Union Jack being flown, but, as I'm not a pedant... .

We are obviously a very patriotic part of the country. The three examples are all within an easy twenty minute stroll, two of them in the same village - Bonsall.

I think he is referring to use of the word "jack" rather than the number of said flags....

When I lived in England in the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s I'm fairly sure the flag was always referred to as the Union Jack. The Union Flag was new to me and I would have guessed it referred to the Stars and Stripes in the American Civil War. How about it Tango?[/quote]

From model ship building I 've learned a decent bit about flags. Have a read here for the official view:

http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british ... nion-flag/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Montreal Wanderer]

I wouldn't! My main point is that people should chill the f*ck out about it!

A pedant would also point out that, unless you've been walking along a harbour, you're unlikely to have seen three examples of the Union Jack being flown, but, as I'm not a pedant... .

We are obviously a very patriotic part of the country. The three examples are all within an easy twenty minute stroll, two of them in the same village - Bonsall.

I think he is referring to use of the word "jack" rather than the number of said flags....

When I lived in England in the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s I'm fairly sure the flag was always referred to as the Union Jack. The Union Flag was new to me and I would have guessed it referred to the Stars and Stripes in the American Civil War. How about it Tango?[/quote]

From model ship building I 've learned a decent bit about flags. Have a read here for the official view:

http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british ... nion-flag/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am aware of the distinction now Tango (thanks to TW). I was asking what you called the Union Flag in, say, the 1950s. In answer to Bish's question above I suppose I am saying the insistence on the distinction seems fairly recent even if there had been a distinction since the Act of Union. To my recollection everyone called our flag the Union Jack and never the Union flag.

Edit: Tango's link does provide my answer.

It is often stated that the Union Flag should only be described as the Union Jack when flown in the bows of a warship, but this is a relatively recent idea. From early in its life the Admiralty itself frequently referred to the flag as the Union Jack, whatever its use, and in 1902 an Admiralty Circular announced that Their Lordships had decided that either name could be used officially. Such use was given Parliamentary approval in 1908 when it was stated that “the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag”.

Therefore (and by act of parliament Pru) it is quite permissible to call the national flag the Union Jack even when flown on Bolton's town hall. So the (pedantic) insistence on saying the jack can only be on a ship is relatively recent.

[TANGODANCER]

In 1953 I was fourteen when the Queen was crowned. We all got a Coronation mug from school and "Union Jacks" were everywhere. Everybody's always called them that to the best of my knowlege. My own knowlege, as I said, was from reading the history on a model ship site. The guys on there are fiercely pedantic about getting the preriods right . The kit manufacturesrs quite often get them wrong, in which csae you have to make your own. In ship life flags were often referred to as "colours", as in "striking the colours" (hauling down the flag when surrendering).

[Dujon]

[Union Flag] I'm with TANGO et al when it comes the flag/jack debate.

[Driving tests] When I got my driving licence in 1962 any driver could teach you - including qualified driving instructors - and once you were considered competent you booked a test. That test consisted of a road test and a verbal quiz on the rules of the road. I'm afraid I failed on my first attempt (although only on the one point) as my examiner felt that drifting a VW Beetle around suburban street corners was not an approved method of navigation.

Nowadays things are different. Applicants have to undertake a computerised quiz and undertake a computer driving simulation before a road test is granted. Prior to all that a certain number of road hours have to be clocked up, including some night driving hours, and a log maintained and signed by the mentor. Those hours were quite significant; at one stage it was 200 but I think that has been reduced. Hang on, I'll go and check.

I'm back:

To be eligible to take this test you must:

Be at least 17 years of age and if under 25 you must have held a learner licence for at least 12 months.
Have completed at least 120 hours of log book driving practice including 20 hours of night driving.

[thebish]

I think the only reason my missus passed, on about her 5th go was that she was about 8 months gone, and the Examiner just wanted her out of the car!

I passed first time - but then, i think it was easier to pass back then... It'd be interesting to see how many of us old fogies could get straight into a driving-test situation - and/or the theory/hazard-perception test without further preparation and pass first time...

I passed first time in 1971. It wasn't considered easy and about half the people failed.

well - I can only evaluate the question based on my own experience - I have taken UK driving tests under the old and the new systems... I still think the new system is harder to pass..

[CrazyHorse]

My Dad took his test in the TA. There was about ten of them in the room and one of the officers was the tester.
The test consisted of him standing at the front of the room and saying 'Hands up who doesn't know how to drive'.
Nobody put their hands up. Everybody passed.
Car. Bike. HGV. Milk float. The lot.

[thebish]

My Dad took his test in the TA. There was about ten of them in the room and one of the officers was the tester.
The test consisted of him standing at the front of the room and saying 'Hands up who doesn't know how to drive'.
Nobody put their hands up. Everybody passed.
Car. Bike. HGV. Milk float. The lot.

[bobo the clown]

Around 20 years ago in Ireland there was a protracted Driving Examiner strike.

People waiting to take their tests began to mount up ... it wasn't easy to see how they could be dealt with even once people returned to work. in fact that point was a major bargaining point of the examiners.

So the Govt decided that it would give out licences to ...
a. Anyone who had already taken the test
and
b. Whose surname began with alternate letters of the alphabet (A, C, E etc.)

Sorted.

So if you ever get into a prang in the Republic you check those details carefully.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The system here in the sand is a bit interesting. You have to have a minimum number of lessons (40 I think). You take your test which is by the company you learn through. They randomly decide if you pass. Things you can fail for include incorrect use of the clutch (in an automatic) and failing to do as you're told (reverse up the motorway due to the examiner not asking you to exit in time). You are then required to pay the driving school for more lessons and hope they decide you can pass next time. Once they've failed you for the 10th time, you decide to switch to a different driving school. Only, you need permission from the 1st school to leave and go to the new school.

A lovely racket don't you think

[Worthy4England]

The system here in the sand is a bit interesting. You have to have a minimum number of lessons (40 I think). You take your test which is by the company you learn through. They randomly decide if you pass. Things you can fail for include incorrect use of the clutch (in an automatic) and failing to do as you're told (reverse up the motorway due to the examiner not asking you to exit in time). You are then required to pay the driving school for more lessons and hope they decide you can pass next time. Once they've failed you for the 10th time, you decide to switch to a different driving school. Only, you need permission from the 1st school to leave and go to the new school.

A lovely racket don't you think

I think I might have spotted a career move, right there, but I'm guessing you can't just set up as a driving school...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The system here in the sand is a bit interesting. You have to have a minimum number of lessons (40 I think). You take your test which is by the company you learn through. They randomly decide if you pass. Things you can fail for include incorrect use of the clutch (in an automatic) and failing to do as you're told (reverse up the motorway due to the examiner not asking you to exit in time). You are then required to pay the driving school for more lessons and hope they decide you can pass next time. Once they've failed you for the 10th time, you decide to switch to a different driving school. Only, you need permission from the 1st school to leave and go to the new school.

A lovely racket don't you think

I think I might have spotted a career move, right there, but I'm guessing you can't just set up as a driving school...

Not without giving most of your money to a local (and 51% of the company), plus a few other fees and hope the authorities give you the necessary licence. A few million quid should do it!

[Worthy4England]

The system here in the sand is a bit interesting. You have to have a minimum number of lessons (40 I think). You take your test which is by the company you learn through. They randomly decide if you pass. Things you can fail for include incorrect use of the clutch (in an automatic) and failing to do as you're told (reverse up the motorway due to the examiner not asking you to exit in time). You are then required to pay the driving school for more lessons and hope they decide you can pass next time. Once they've failed you for the 10th time, you decide to switch to a different driving school. Only, you need permission from the 1st school to leave and go to the new school.

A lovely racket don't you think

I think I might have spotted a career move, right there, but I'm guessing you can't just set up as a driving school...

Not without giving most of your money to a local (and 51% of the company), plus a few other fees and hope the authorities give you the necessary licence. A few million quid should do it!

I think that failure rate has just gone up a bit.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The system here in the sand is a bit interesting. You have to have a minimum number of lessons (40 I think). You take your test which is by the company you learn through. They randomly decide if you pass. Things you can fail for include incorrect use of the clutch (in an automatic) and failing to do as you're told (reverse up the motorway due to the examiner not asking you to exit in time). You are then required to pay the driving school for more lessons and hope they decide you can pass next time. Once they've failed you for the 10th time, you decide to switch to a different driving school. Only, you need permission from the 1st school to leave and go to the new school.

A lovely racket don't you think

I think I might have spotted a career move, right there, but I'm guessing you can't just set up as a driving school...

Not without giving most of your money to a local (and 51% of the company), plus a few other fees and hope the authorities give you the necessary licence. A few million quid should do it!

I think that failure rate has just gone up a bit.

[Montreal Wanderer]

I think the only reason my missus passed, on about her 5th go was that she was about 8 months gone, and the Examiner just wanted her out of the car!

I passed first time - but then, i think it was easier to pass back then... It'd be interesting to see how many of us old fogies could get straight into a driving-test situation - and/or the theory/hazard-perception test without further preparation and pass first time...

I passed first time in 1971. It wasn't considered easy and about half the people failed.

well - I can only evaluate the question based on my own experience - I have taken UK driving tests under the old and the new systems... I still think the new system is harder to pass..

I have no point of comparison but will take your word for it - I guess the relative failure rates would provide the answer. However, I took ten years of my life. I actually passed in 1961 - by 1971 I was terrifying the motorists of North America. It is certainly harder to get a license here now. A certain number of mandatory lessons with an approved driving school, certification from the school, followed by the test. If you pass the test you get a provisional license with some restrictions (not allowed to drive alone at night for example). If you get through a year or two with no infractions, you then get a full license. Any level of alcohol on the breath (even well below the limit) means loss of the provisional license for two years.