Bands you don't "get".

[TANGODANCER]

Sex Pistols? Boyband full of pansies. Never mind they were bollocks.

The band that changed the face of Britain. Not only musicaly but socialy. The Pistols taught a generation, a generation I was part of; to say feck you! We are not going to be pushed around, we are not subserviant, we are not yours to shape and twist to serve. We are free people and this is what we want. ( Then I joined an organisation that realy shaped and twisted me ) Is there a better intro than pretty vacant? No. Apart from all that, Glen Matlock had a place on the Island and his kids went to Ryde school with some of my kids. A realy nice chap. (Who I used to see in Marks and Sparks cafe a lot).

Guess you're not as old as I thought Mr Buccaneer. We thought much the same way in 1955 when rock and roll arrived over here. It passes in time.

[Bijou Bob]

Oh come on Pirate, the best intro of all time is either The Who, Won't get fooled again, or The Cult, She sells sanctuary. Both make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

Seriously?

Absolutely. Quality keyBoards on the who track and great guitar on the Cult classic. And your riposte with alternative would be?

[Bruce Rioja]

Oh come on Pirate, the best intro of all time is either The Who, Won't get fooled again, or The Cult, She sells sanctuary. Both make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

Seriously?

Absolutely. Quality keyBoards on the who track and great guitar on the Cult classic. And your riposte with alternative would be?

I'm not questioning She Sells Sanctuary, it's a track of which I look forward to coming around when I'm playing songs from my phone in the car, and would even say that for me it's possibly/probably the greatest intro of all time. But seriously, mate, the intro to Won' Get Fooled Again, though decent and effective, is pretty much beginner's stuff.

[Bijou Bob]

Its a game of opinions. Number 3 for me is the intro to Wish you were here, and they don't come much simpler than that.

[Beefheart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT6I3ZJeme4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; My favourite intro

[Bruce Rioja]

Its a game of opinions. Number 3 for me is the intro to Wish you were here, and they don't come much simpler than that.

Honestly? I'll leave you to it then, Fella.

[bobo the clown]

The band that changed the face of Britain.

Not only musicaly but socialy.

The Pistols taught a generation, a generation I was part of; to say feck you! We are not going to be pushed around, we are not subserviant, we are not yours to shape and twist to serve. We are free people and this is what we want.

Apart from all that, Glen Matlock had a place on the Island and his kids went to Ryde school with some of my kids. A realy nice chap.

Would that be THIS Ryde school Bluebeard ?

http://www.rydeschool.org.uk/page/?titl ... hool&pid=5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some "changing of society" then.

Seriously, good for him, and for you, but every generation has it's false dawns, the time it thinks IT invented everything and that IT will take no shit.

Till it grows up & settles down to watch the next generation go through it all again.

The Sex Pistols were a huge hype, managed by McLaren & Westwood to massage their ego's.

Oh & they were shite.

[Worthy4England]

Oh come on Pirate, the best intro of all time is either The Who, Won't get fooled again, or The Cult, She sells sanctuary. Both make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

Seriously?

Both discerning choices, but I'm not sure won't get fooled again is the best intro by The Who, let alone best intro of all time.

[Bijou Bob]

Its a game of opinions. Number 3 for me is the intro to Wish you were here, and they don't come much simpler than that.

Honestly? I'll leave you to it then, Fella.

I think we're getting to the nub of this debate. Music is such an individual thing and our response to it is often emotional, based on deep seated or unconscious memory. Then again, I can enjoy a track because of the technical ability involved in producing it ( Steely Dan and Groove Armada being particular examples for me).

That doesn't stop me from enjoying tracks on a primal level or from those like Whitesnake`s Love in the heart of the city, even though its a pastiche of macho glam rock and musically, not awfully good.

I'm in awe of some musicians, others leave me cold. Some I understand my response to ( Ram Jam`s Black Betty is an average tune but has happy memories attached) whilst for example Maroon Fives Move Like Jagger I feel I shouldn't like, but its a catchy tune.

[Bruce Rioja]

Glen Matlock had a place on the Island and his kids went to Ryde school with some of my kids. A realy nice chap.

Met him in Glasgow some years ago at a book signing. Got chatting with him. A thoroughly nice bloke.

[Il Pirate]

The band that changed the face of Britain.

Not only musicaly but socialy.

The Pistols taught a generation, a generation I was part of; to say feck you! We are not going to be pushed around, we are not subserviant, we are not yours to shape and twist to serve. We are free people and this is what we want.

Apart from all that, Glen Matlock had a place on the Island and his kids went to Ryde school with some of my kids. A realy nice chap.

Would that be THIS Ryde school Bluebeard ?

http://www.rydeschool.org.uk/page/?titl ... hool&pid=5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some "changing of society" then.

Seriously, good for him, and for you, but every generation has it's false dawns, the time it thinks IT invented everything and that IT will take no shit.

Till it grows up & settles down to watch the next generation go through it all again.

The Sex Pistols were a huge hype, managed by McLaren & Westwood to massage their ego's.

Oh & they were shite.

That's the one Bobo! On a serious note; it realy tested my principles at the time, to send or not to send my children into private education. However, boy am I glad we did it. (This subject could be a whole new thread of its own). The opportunities afforded to kids who go to such schools, are opportunities which set them up for life, both professionaly and socialy. Dr Nicholas England was the principal when my kids went there and he's just retired. ( Best friend of Sebastian Faulks, who once turned up at a speech day, and also a friend of Jack Higgins, who also turned up at a speech day to present yearly prizes). I'm proud of the fact my kids have had far better opportunities in life than I ever had. If I sold out to do it? I can live with that.
And the Pistols were feckin great. (Sid apart). PIL's latest is a masterpiece. Get on it.

[Prufrock]

They were a bunch of pansie boys shit scared of the Ramones; a boy band cobbled together by Malcolm McClaren because he thought John Lydon was 'edgy'. Matlock could play, but the rest, particularly Vicious, weren't just shite, they were willfully shite. The rest of the punk 'movement' weren't bothered that they couldn't playthemselves, but that's not the same as adopting as your selling point the fact that you can't play.

If you haven't already, I implore to read 'Please kill me: An Oral History of Punk'. Those involved, particularly the Americans, saw the Sex Pistols for the joke they were. About as punk as Enya.

[Il Pirate]

Some of your sentiment I agree with Pru. The pistols were put together by Maclaren. However, the band existed prior to John Lydon joining them. Also Sid was another 'fashion addition' by Maclaren, 18 months after the original Pistols formed. He couldn't play, and the guy who was sacked (Matlock), played bass on most of the recordings. But to state that Steve Jones or Glen Matlock couldn't play guitar or bass; or Paul Cooke could not play the drums is realy taking the piss. The Ramones? Two great songs. ( Listen to Suzi is a headbanger. Same as Sheena is a punk rocker? You bet. But these are not the two best Ramones songs). But they still made three great songs less than the Pistols. American punk? Who's great ? Only Talking Heads, who subsequently went onto be one of the greatest dance/new wave acts ever. American punk was as bigger myth as gold at the end of the rainbow. Don't believe all you read.

[Bruce Rioja]

They were a bunch of pansie boys shit scared of the Ramones;

What on earth makes an intelligent man pipe up with something like that?

They were indeed cobbled together by McClaren and Westwood. Matlock worked as a Saturday boy in their shop, Sex. Matlock spilled that he was a trained musician and the band was put together around Matlock's ability to play piano and guitar. Lydon was at this point a regular browser in their shop and McLaren had decided that he was their frontman, whether he could sing or not. Matlock showed Jones how to play guitar (to a degree) whilst taking up bass guitar himself. Paul Cook, the drummer, refused to leave his job as an apprentice electrician at Mortlake Brewery until he'd finished his C&G as he didn't think the band would make it.
Glenn Matlock wrote the chord structure for Pretty Vacant around that of SOS by ABBA. He also wrote all the 'credible' Pistols tunes that made up 'Bollocks'.
As soon as they'd achieved a level of notoriety, McClaren fired off Matlock in order to bring in Sid Vicious who most matched his ideal. Vicious, previously a drummer in Siouxsie and the Banshees, couldn't play a note on anything. For reasons best known to himself, Matlock gave Vicious lessons on bass but only by running up and down the E string, which was as much (or even more) than Vicious could take on board.
On their ill-fated tour of America, it finally occurred to Rotten/Lydon that the band were little more than a money making pawn for Mclaren and Westwood and that the heroin addicted, girlfriend murdering Vicious was their masterpiece, so to speak.

Rotten left the stage at their gig in San Francisco in 78 with the immortal line "'Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

A Rotten-less Pistols went on to record and film The Great Rock and Roll Swindle.

I was into the Pistols as a kid, fecking big time, and that will always remain. They were just so 'out there' and represented everything that I despised about Grammar School, about being addressed by my surname and about being bullied by men in black cloaks.

I got to see the original line up play in 98. It was one of the greatest nights of my life.

It makes no difference to me whether you're older than me like Bobo, or younger than me like you, Pru. You weren't where I was in 77.

[Beefheart]

They were a bunch of pansie boys shit scared of the Ramones; a boy band cobbled together by Malcolm McClaren because he thought John Lydon was 'edgy'. Matlock could play, but the rest, particularly Vicious, weren't just shite, they were willfully shite. The rest of the punk 'movement' weren't bothered that they couldn't playthemselves, but that's not the same as adopting as your selling point the fact that you can't play.

If you haven't already, I implore to read 'Please kill me: An Oral History of Punk'. Those involved, particularly the Americans, saw the Sex Pistols for the joke they were. About as punk as Enya.

Does any of that matter as long as you like the way it sounds? Im not a huge punk fan but a whole lot of time seems to be devoted to arguing about who/what is authentically ‘punk’.

I will say though that after seeing public image limited support the stone roses i thought jonny rotten was a complete wanker in a shit band.

[bobo the clown]

That's the one Bobo! On a serious note; it realy tested my principles at the time, to send or not to send my children into private education. However, boy am I glad we did it. (This subject could be a whole new thread of its own). The opportunities afforded to kids who go to such schools, are opportunities which set them up for life, both professionaly and socialy. Dr Nicholas England was the principal when my kids went there and he's just retired. ( Best friend of Sebastian Faulks, who once turned up at a speech day, and also a friend of Jack Higgins, who also turned up at a speech day to present yearly prizes). I'm proud of the fact my kids have had far better opportunities in life than I ever had. If I sold out to do it? I can live with that.

You're pushing at an open door there B. I did the same myself for my two ... you could be taken to the law for leaving your kids to the failure that is the Welsh Education system.

I was simply trying to point out that for someone so revered for 'breaking the mould' a Sex Pistol doing that sits uneasy. I have NO issue with him doing it, just pointing out that the image portrayed was a crock of shite then, later and now.

[Beefheart]

That's the one Bobo! On a serious note; it realy tested my principles at the time, to send or not to send my children into private education. However, boy am I glad we did it. (This subject could be a whole new thread of its own). The opportunities afforded to kids who go to such schools, are opportunities which set them up for life, both professionaly and socialy. Dr Nicholas England was the principal when my kids went there and he's just retired. ( Best friend of Sebastian Faulks, who once turned up at a speech day, and also a friend of Jack Higgins, who also turned up at a speech day to present yearly prizes). I'm proud of the fact my kids have had far better opportunities in life than I ever had. If I sold out to do it? I can live with that.

You're pushing at an open door there B. I did the same myself for my two ... you could be taken to the law for leaving your kids to the failure that is the Welsh Education system.

I was simply trying to point out that for someone so revered for 'breaking the mould' a Sex Pistol doing that sits uneasy. I have NO issue with him doing it, just pointing out that the image portrayed was a crock of shite then, later and now.

See also, Diane Abbott.

[bobo the clown]

That's the one Bobo! On a serious note; it realy tested my principles at the time, to send or not to send my children into private education. However, boy am I glad we did it. (This subject could be a whole new thread of its own). The opportunities afforded to kids who go to such schools, are opportunities which set them up for life, both professionaly and socialy. Dr Nicholas England was the principal when my kids went there and he's just retired. ( Best friend of Sebastian Faulks, who once turned up at a speech day, and also a friend of Jack Higgins, who also turned up at a speech day to present yearly prizes). I'm proud of the fact my kids have had far better opportunities in life than I ever had. If I sold out to do it? I can live with that.

You're pushing at an open door there B. I did the same myself for my two ... you could be taken to the law for leaving your kids to the failure that is the Welsh Education system.

I was simply trying to point out that for someone so revered for 'breaking the mould' a Sex Pistol doing that sits uneasy. I have NO issue with him doing it, just pointing out that the image portrayed was a crock of shite then, later and now.

See also, Diane Abbott.

Ah ... but I don't pretend to be a socialist.

Not even a bit.

[Beefheart]

That's the one Bobo! On a serious note; it realy tested my principles at the time, to send or not to send my children into private education. However, boy am I glad we did it. (This subject could be a whole new thread of its own). The opportunities afforded to kids who go to such schools, are opportunities which set them up for life, both professionaly and socialy. Dr Nicholas England was the principal when my kids went there and he's just retired. ( Best friend of Sebastian Faulks, who once turned up at a speech day, and also a friend of Jack Higgins, who also turned up at a speech day to present yearly prizes). I'm proud of the fact my kids have had far better opportunities in life than I ever had. If I sold out to do it? I can live with that.

You're pushing at an open door there B. I did the same myself for my two ... you could be taken to the law for leaving your kids to the failure that is the Welsh Education system.

I was simply trying to point out that for someone so revered for 'breaking the mould' a Sex Pistol doing that sits uneasy. I have NO issue with him doing it, just pointing out that the image portrayed was a crock of shite then, later and now.

See also, Diane Abbott.

Ah ... but I don't pretend to be a socialist.

Not even a bit.

I was suggesting she was a hypocrite along the lines of whichever sex pistol you were talking about!

[bobo the clown]

I was suggesting she was a hypocrite along the lines of whichever sex pistol you were talking about!

Ah, sorry.

To be honest less a hypocrite, I leave that to the multi-millionaire faux Socialism of Billy Bragg, just that it was all a big act.


(Re. Mr 'property is theft" Bragg, see house photo attached ... I wonder if he is OK about ramblers strolling through ?)