Bruce or Sam.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

BWFCi: probably, aye. He certainly made it us v them: it was always someone else's fault. Can't think which red-nose he learned that from.

Interestingly, someone who publicly said he wanted to meld the styles of Rioch and Allardyce was Phil Brown...

[Lord Kangana]

Always felt the best football we played under Allardyce was when Brown was coach. We seemed to regress a little under Lee, albeit with not quite the same calibre and/or technical ability of players.

[BL3]

Neal's team had reached the play-offs twice

But the season before Rioch arrived we'd finished 13th...

[CAPSLOCK]

We had but the whole thing imploded post Southampton

Like I said, it was wonderful under Rioch but lets have it reet, we weren't a 13th in the table team when he arrived

He inherited Stubbs and Walker with McAteer about to burst on the scen - add that to Kelly and you had players with sooooo much ability for that league

The football was great and the Hull and Bournemouth week was pretty damn good, to say the least, but Rioch did what other BWFC managers had done - if being mischievous I'd point out the 400k he pissed away on De Freitas couldn easily have been what he was remembered for if Branagan hadn't saved that penalty

Allardyce did something no other has managed in my lifetime


For my money, Allardyce stands head and shoulders above anybody since Ridding - Greaves v Rioch v Armfield is an interesting one

[BL3]

But you could equally say the same thing about Allardyce. He inherited a team that had missed out in the play-off final the previous season. We were struggling when he took over but we were better than our league position suggested. Allardyce inherited most of the team that had played in the Premier League, plus the likes of Gudjohnsen. It's all very well to say that Rioch inherited some decent players but he also made some key signings like McGinlay and Branagan and they made all the difference.

The whole infrastructure of the club was light years ahead of where it was when Rioch was in charge and for that reason alone, Rioch's achievement in getting us to the Premier League was greater than Allardyce's in my opinion. Beyond that, it's impossible to compare, because Rioch never actually managed us in the top flight.

[Lord Kangana]

We probably wouldn't have the Reebok without Rioch. He should have a stand named after him or something. We wouldn't have had success there without Allardyce. But we certainly wouldn't have been doing what we did at a refurbished Burnden. Yin and yang. Can't have one without the other.

[bw@bw]

Allardyce did something no other has managed in my lifetime

For my money, Allardyce stands head and shoulders above anybody since Ridding - Greaves v Rioch v Armfield is an interesting one

Armfield is not in this race - he was was only any good because of his No 2 - Ian Greaves
As you say Greaves v Rioch is a close thing

Remember how so many of Greaves team came from our youth teams

Gave us a sense of home grown pride

[Bruce Rioja]

For my money, Allardyce stands head and shoulders above anybody since Ridding - Greaves v Rioch v Armfield is an interesting one

And you know what of time under Ridding? Or Armfield? We can all dig out various facts and figures. When did you enjoy being a BWFC fan the most? Oh, and I met you for the first time in the away end at Marseilles and you were the most miserable 4ucker that I've ever met, so don't tell me that you were happy then.

[CAPSLOCK]

For my money, Allardyce stands head and shoulders above anybody since Ridding - Greaves v Rioch v Armfield is an interesting one

And you know what of time under Ridding? Or Armfield? We can all dig out various facts and figures. When did you enjoy being a BWFC fan the most? Oh, and I met you for the first time in the away end at Marseilles and you were the most miserable 4ucker that I've ever met, so don't tell me that you were happy then.

I was fcuking freezing

I'm very miserable when I'm cold

I'm very miserable when I'm hot

I'm just miserable at all other times


I don't need to know much about Ridding other than what I read in the record books

Armfield was manager when I started going and the team he left Greaves was a cracker...on the back of years of shit

[Bruce Rioja]

Greaves was a cracker...on the back of years of shit

Turned around by Armfield.

[bobo the clown]

Armfield certainly was the guy who stopped the rot and got things moving. Not leat when he overhauled the youth set up and the scouting.

He went on to, potentially, greater things and Greaves did an ace job in keeping all that going ... & signing Frankie W !!

Years of shite followed ... in trying financial circumstances ... and Phil Neal stopped that rot and did a decent job. However he was never warmed to and Rioch moved things to another level from the basis of work begun by Neal. He changed our way of playing and had us believing again. Those days were fantastic.

But Allardyce, well ... while he is up his own arse, aggressive, Mr Angry and really not especially lovable, he ..... & don't ignore Gartside's support ... took us to levels undreamt of since the 1950's.

[Hoboh]

We had but the whole thing imploded post Southampton

Like I said, it was wonderful under Rioch but lets have it reet, we weren't a 13th in the table team when he arrived

He inherited Stubbs and Walker with McAteer about to burst on the scen - add that to Kelly and you had players with sooooo much ability for that league

The football was great and the Hull and Bournemouth week was pretty damn good, to say the least, but Rioch did what other BWFC managers had done - if being mischievous I'd point out the 400k he pissed away on De Freitas couldn easily have been what he was remembered for if Branagan hadn't saved that penalty

Allardyce did something no other has managed in my lifetime


For my money, Allardyce stands head and shoulders above anybody since Ridding - Greaves v Rioch v Armfield is an interesting one

Total agreement

[BL3]

Armfield is not in this race - he was was only any good because of his No 2 - Ian Greaves

Armfield took Leeds to a European Cup final when he left us...

[BL3]

We probably wouldn't have the Reebok without Rioch. He should have a stand named after him or something. We wouldn't have had success there without Allardyce. But we certainly wouldn't have been doing what we did at a refurbished Burnden. Yin and yang. Can't have one without the other.

I think that part of the equation is often overlooked. Allardyce used to say that he took a brochure of the Reebok with him when trying to sign players from abroad. They'd often never heard of Bolton but they were always impressed when they saw the stadium. It was a real selling point.

[LeverEnd]

We probably wouldn't have the Reebok without Rioch. He should have a stand named after him or something. We wouldn't have had success there without Allardyce. But we certainly wouldn't have been doing what we did at a refurbished Burnden. Yin and yang. Can't have one without the other.

I think that part of the equation is often overlooked. Allardyce used to say that he took a brochure of the Reebok with him when trying to sign players from abroad. They'd often never heard of Bolton but they were always impressed when they saw the stadium. It was a real selling point.

Whereas Phil Neal took a picture of the Burnden Pie Shop to Shrewsbury to sign Tony Kelly. Very similar. What a star that guy was. Kind of the proto-Campo!

True what you say though, almost 2 different clubs really.

[BL3]

Colin Todd was on a radio show a few years ago and he told a story about how he and Rioch would often sit down at the end of the day and chat about which players they'd sign if they ever had the funds to do so at Bolton. Rioch's number one choice was an Ajax player who had just started to make his mark. Dennis Bergkamp. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if Rioch had stayed he would also have been trying to sign players like Djorkaeff and Okocha.

[jaffka]

Colin Todd was on a radio show a few years ago and he told a story about how he and Rioch would often sit down at the end of the day and chat about which players they'd sign if they ever had the funds to do so at Bolton. Rioch's number one choice was an Ajax player who had just started to make his mark. Dennis Bergkamp. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if Rioch had stayed he would also have been trying to sign players like Djorkaeff and Okocha.

The evidence in bringing in Sneekes and Frandsen etc show that a good scouting structure was in place.

[BWFC_Insane]

Colin Todd was on a radio show a few years ago and he told a story about how he and Rioch would often sit down at the end of the day and chat about which players they'd sign if they ever had the funds to do so at Bolton. Rioch's number one choice was an Ajax player who had just started to make his mark. Dennis Bergkamp. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if Rioch had stayed he would also have been trying to sign players like Djorkaeff and Okocha.

I agree Rioch was fiercely ambitious like Allardyce.

And the Reebok was a legacy that allowed Allardyce to deliver those players.

I think there are two impressive things about Allardyce not just that he wanted to bring those players in, but that he found a way to make it financially possible, bring them in on frees in the latter part of their careers. But that in itself only is part of the story. Allardyce managed those players brilliantly and made it work. He blended home-grown players like Hunt and Nolan, with the big superstars and found a formula to make it work.

[LeverEnd]

Colin Todd was on a radio show a few years ago and he told a story about how he and Rioch would often sit down at the end of the day and chat about which players they'd sign if they ever had the funds to do so at Bolton. Rioch's number one choice was an Ajax player who had just started to make his mark. Dennis Bergkamp. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if Rioch had stayed he would also have been trying to sign players like Djorkaeff and Okocha.

I agree Rioch was fiercely ambitious like Allardyce.

And the Reebok was a legacy that allowed Allardyce to deliver those players.

I think there are two impressive things about Allardyce not just that he wanted to bring those players in, but that he found a way to make it financially possible, bring them in on frees in the latter part of their careers. But that in itself only is part of the story. Allardyce managed those players brilliantly and made it work. He blended home-grown players like Hunt and Nolan, with the big superstars and found a formula to make it work.

When did Eddie Davies get involved? His cash was obviously a big help to Sam.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Colin Todd was on a radio show a few years ago and he told a story about how he and Rioch would often sit down at the end of the day and chat about which players they'd sign if they ever had the funds to do so at Bolton. Rioch's number one choice was an Ajax player who had just started to make his mark. Dennis Bergkamp. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if Rioch had stayed he would also have been trying to sign players like Djorkaeff and Okocha.

I agree Rioch was fiercely ambitious like Allardyce.

And the Reebok was a legacy that allowed Allardyce to deliver those players.

I think there are two impressive things about Allardyce not just that he wanted to bring those players in, but that he found a way to make it financially possible, bring them in on frees in the latter part of their careers. But that in itself only is part of the story. Allardyce managed those players brilliantly and made it work. He blended home-grown players like Hunt and Nolan, with the big superstars and found a formula to make it work.

When did Eddie Davies get involved? His cash was obviously a big help to Sam.

2003