Rams to the slaughter?

[Worthy4England]

Did we get promoted in 1902/3 ??

Dunno.
But apparently the Ye Olde Bedsheete Shoppe did a roaring trade that year though.

Strangely enough, we got relegated from Div 1 to Div 2. Our one bright point was that we beat Wolves 4-1. 8 wins and 3 draws out of 34 matches.

We scored just over a goal per game and conceded just over two per game (starting to sound familiar?)

We failed to score one game in three....

People blamed Zat Knight.

[Notakalou]

Not posted for a while so here we go.

I thought we looked much better in central defence without Knight. Wheater and Mills might make a mistake but so does every defender in this league and they atleast appear to have some potential and give a feck. The goals we conceded were very soft though, i didnt have the best view for the first so cant give a fair judgement but the second goal should never have even been a chance if hall was on the right side of his man. Saying that you still expect your centre halfs to be clearing those balls, I cant remember seeing any of our defenders getting the defensive line in order and sometimes wed have a complete lack of positioning.

I like Tierney he seems to be fairly solid and the back and a good attacking outlet, in truth we cant hope to sign many better left backs in the championship on a free transfer. In contrast im really not sold on baptiste, he hardly wins anything in the air and his positioning is just dreadful. Baptiste seems to have a tendency to just jog up the field on the attack without really giving an option but still leaves a huge gap at the back which just exposes our centre backs even more.

Ill take my hat off to ream for his recent displays. Always offered an option and i only remember him giving the ball away once which the boo boys decided to give him abuse for, get quite sick of people just booing at every opportunity, frankly they should relise thay we're not real madrid and will make the odd mistake and cant just tear teams apart at the click of a finger and failing that just stay at home and watch united so i dont have to listen to some of the utterly retarded shit they come out with.

Hall doesnt look at all ready for the starting eleven but a part of me says just stick with him and hope he comes good. Eagles dropped away in the second half which wasnt helped by just playing the same diagonal long ball to beckford that he was never going to win. Ive seen people give chungy some stick on here but he isgetting better and some of his touches are pure class. He mght not be scoring but he provides a good outball rather than just hoofing it, did well in the lead up to eagles goal.

Beckford had a bad game but to be honest i dont think he has the opportunity to do much better. He did put in the effort for the first half but he tired and i think the frustration got the better of him. His best chance he actually created himself but couldnt get a shot away. In the lone striker system we need someone to hold the ball up rather than it just coming back at us and youd think craig davies would be the right fit. Id say Ngog but in the last two games particularly he doesnt seem to care what so ever, id be looking to sell on if we're offered anything from him, will he ever fill his 'potential'?

Ive even started to bore myself so ill leave it as that. Give doogie time and he'll turn it around. (apologies for any spelling mistakes im using my phone)

[Athers]

Games where a few go in in the first half often seem to go a bit staler in the second as the managers and players tighten up a bit.

Thought the Derby second goal was a) unfortunate the wayward shot went to their man but b) we (Tierney I think) gave Hughes the freedom of Bolton to run towards the box and have a shot, so you make your own luck

Our goals were good and well needed, but still not much going on up front with Beckford. Whether it's him or our inability to find a through ball, it's just not working at all. It's almost like playing with a man down half the time, but I'll at least say he helps push the opposition defence back a bit which may have contributed to Eagles goal.

[UpTheM61]

Good point against Dierby to go bottom - Bolton Feckin Wanderers, stuck in the Football League!

[Annoyed Grunt]

Good point against Dierby to go bottom - Bolton Feckin Wanderers, stuck in the Football League!

Haven't your lot been there since 1999?

[Andy Waller]

Good point against Dierby to go bottom - Bolton Feckin Wanderers, stuck in the Football League!

Are they in the French League?

[Whookam]

Still that's what happens when you give someone with only five minutes managerial experience themselves the job of sorting out Owen Coyle's mess. He desperately signs 300 strikers and gives Zat Knight a promotion. That's the sort of thing a nine year old boy would do on football manager.

In that five minutes he took a side destined for relegation and built a squad that went on to be promoted, he also took us from 16th to within goal difference of the play-offs. He was the messiah to some last season and now we're in september and people want him chucked out?

He's earned time, tonights result wasnt great but it was a small step.

What do you think is an acceptable points total after 10 games?

Nothing that Dougie can achieve. I'm not defending the start the team has made, its a total disaster and nowhere close to being good enough. I just think that knee-jerk sackings are a bad reaction and dougie deserves a lot more time than 10 games, thats less than a quarter of the season.

Besides, we cant afford to pay loanee wages, where is the money to pay off dougie coming from?

Fair enough, I think I'm in the same boat as you.

[LeverEnd]

Just seen the highlights. Might have to downgrade Mills, statuesque for their goals. We really fecked defensively. Baptiste was just standing watching Spearing fly into an ultimately unsuccessful tackle, then jogged back as the player ran into the yawning defensive chasm he'd left behind him yet again and crossed for an easy tap-in. Wish Crystal Palace had nicked him now. What a donkey. maybe we should play him up front? He is our top scorer after all.
As for Dougie's comments, according to an Iles tweet he claimed Beckford is struggling because he is 'trying too hard'. My laptop nearly went through the window at that point.

[CrazyHorse]

I went through every season back from '63 in my dinnertime yesterday, and the last time we didn't win a game in the first seven was 1902. Plus the beeb is saying something similar too...

• Bolton have made their worst start to a league season in 50 years, and defeat against Derby would see them on their lowest equivalent points total since starting the 1902/03 top-flight season with seven straight defeats.

So yeah.

So not yeah. We didn't lose.

Fair enough, I'm wrong. When is this our worst start since then?

[LeverEnd]

I went through every season back from '63 in my dinnertime yesterday, and the last time we didn't win a game in the first seven was 1902. Plus the beeb is saying something similar too...

• Bolton have made their worst start to a league season in 50 years, and defeat against Derby would see them on their lowest equivalent points total since starting the 1902/03 top-flight season with seven straight defeats.

So yeah.

So not yeah. We didn't lose.

Fair enough, I'm wrong. When is this our worst start since then?

Hang fire til the Brighton defeat. new records will be set! Then we'll scrape a lucky 1 nil against Yeovil (penalty from Hall dive) and the promotion push will be on.

[Bruce Rioja]

Did you get there Bruce? What's your take on tonight?

Indeed, Tango, and I'd say that William's pretty much nailed it with his assessment. Two points to add though - I thought that Hall was an absolute handful, often unplayable in the first half and looks to be a fantastic prospect. He tired as the second half wore on but overall I was delighted with him. Second point is - I haven't seen any highlights whatsoever but when I do I want to look at Ginger's positioning and lack of endeavour to deal with the balls across on both of their goals, especially the second one which looked to me as though he could have thrown his cap on it. As I say, I haven't seen a replay and I could well be wrong.

[Barefoot Wanderer]

Agree with you Bruce Rioja - I haven't seen any replays either but they seemed to walk the ball into our penalty area for both goals and the crosses came in unchallenged. Bogdan got something on the first but kicked it into his own net, if my eyes didn't deceive me

Hall was a big positive. Lost count how many times he JUST kept the ball and zoomed up the wing - that boy is quick! Eagles had a good game and continued to be a good influence during the second half. Beckford was awful (and I mean AWFUL) - he didn't seem to want the ball, when he did get the ball he made a mistake which meant the midfield players started playing it down the flanks sometimes instead of a simpler pass to beckford. He was crap and should have been subbed after 45 mins

A couple of thoughts: why is it that when we start playing possession football with ball to feet, when Bogdan receives the ball he hoofs it? And when he takes a goal kick he plays it to his right-hand touch line and usually goes out of play? Surely you play the percentages and place your kick through the middle? I'm Puzzled by this... it's something he prefers to do until later stages of the game, I fail to see any adavantage in this (especially when he seems to do this more than kick it central) - someone might be able to enlighten me?

But there were things to feel positive about - not a good result but the signs are there that we could be heading upwards sooner rather than later - DF needs to keep the same back 4 and give it time to solidify - I think Mills will improve with wheater alongside him instaed of knight, they just need 3 or 4 games to get to know each other IMO - leave Ream where he is (another good performance from him)

I'd be surprised if we got anything from brighton but on the up we should be good for another point against Yeovil

[Hoboh]

Unlike previous defeats against Leeds and Blackburn, however, there was a vein of steel running through this display that will provide a little bit of solace for the Whites boss, who currently needs every good omen he can find.

WTF

Steel?

Iles really is a prick at times!

[LeverEnd]

Did you get there Bruce? What's your take on tonight?

Indeed, Tango, and I'd say that William's pretty much nailed it with his assessment. Two points to add though - I thought that Hall was an absolute handful, often unplayable in the first half and looks to be a fantastic prospect. He tired as the second half wore on but overall I was delighted with him. Second point is - I haven't seen any highlights whatsoever but when I do I want to look at Ginger's positioning and lack of endeavour to deal with the balls across on both of their goals, especially the second one which looked to me as though he could have thrown his cap on it. As I say, I haven't seen a replay and I could well be wrong.

I'd agree that Hall has talent but wasn't impressed last night. had his moments first half, totally anonymous 2nd. I took a dislike to his diving as well, did it a couple of times and also just fell over on other occasions. My mate asked if he was wearing Vaz Te's old boots. I'm obviously in the minority though as he got plenty of applause when he was subbed, but I just didn't see it last night. For me he shows flashes but as a starter needs to contribute more. I hope he stays in though because he is a genuine prospect and we're not exactly overburdened with those.

[Athers]

A couple of thoughts: why is it that when we start playing possession football with ball to feet, when Bogdan receives the ball he hoofs it? And when he takes a goal kick he plays it to his right-hand touch line and usually goes out of play? Surely you play the percentages and place your kick through the middle? I'm Puzzled by this... it's something he prefers to do until later stages of the game, I fail to see any adavantage in this (especially when he seems to do this more than kick it central) - someone might be able to enlighten me?

With Beckford up front we have a front four who can't win a header, save Lee occasionally. So plan is to aim for Tierney or Baptiste. We used to do it with Alonso too in the hope that a) Our man wins the header up to the winger or b) defender just heads it out of play like they often do when moving towards touchline to head it.

Of course there's option c) lose the header and our full back is out of the game, but knocking it up to Beckford is pointless against centre halves.

[Worthy4England]

A couple of thoughts: why is it that when we start playing possession football with ball to feet, when Bogdan receives the ball he hoofs it? And when he takes a goal kick he plays it to his right-hand touch line and usually goes out of play? Surely you play the percentages and place your kick through the middle? I'm Puzzled by this... it's something he prefers to do until later stages of the game, I fail to see any adavantage in this (especially when he seems to do this more than kick it central) - someone might be able to enlighten me?

With Beckford up front we have a front four who can't win a header, save Lee occasionally. So plan is to aim for Tierney or Baptiste. We used to do it with Alonso too in the hope that a) Our man wins the header up to the winger or b) defender just heads it out of play like they often do when moving towards touchline to head it.

Of course there's option c) lose the header and our full back is out of the game, but knocking it up to Beckford is pointless against centre halves.

Don't disagree Athers, we have the same probalem with N'gog too - he can't win a header either, which makes it pointless 1) hoofing it up over the halfway line and 2) pointless putting head height crosses into the box.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

All the more reason not to leather it long. All the more reason our goalkeeper should be happy to roll it out to players who are happy to get the ball and pass it onwards to team-mates who are moving into positions to receive it. It's not complicated (which isn't the same as not being easy).

While following the Derby game last night I was watching Plzen-City and in the first half the Czechs did it a couple of times to their garlanded foes: pass, move, receive, pass, moving in 10-yard triangles up the pitch. The trouble is that unconfident players shirk rather than seek the ball.

[Ianmooreslovechild]

Just seen the highlights. Might have to downgrade Mills, statuesque for their goals. We really fecked defensively. Baptiste was just standing watching Spearing fly into an ultimately unsuccessful tackle, then jogged back as the player ran into the yawning defensive chasm he'd left behind him yet again and crossed for an easy tap-in. Wish Crystal Palace had nicked him now. What a donkey. maybe we should play him up front? He is our top scorer after all.
As for Dougie's comments, according to an Iles tweet he claimed Beckford is struggling because he is 'trying too hard'. My laptop nearly went through the window at that point.

My guess in fairness is that he means mentally instead of just doing what comes naturally as it did at leeds for a spell Beckford is over conscious of what he needs to do and anxious about failing. It's different to a workrate thing and different to Ngog who has never really been a goalscorer.At least with beckford there is the knowledge that should he click and get his head right he can score goals.That's why Freedman took a gamble on him. If it pays off then its money well spent.

[89bwfc89]

Did you get there Bruce? What's your take on tonight?

Indeed, Tango, and I'd say that William's pretty much nailed it with his assessment. Two points to add though - I thought that Hall was an absolute handful, often unplayable in the first half and looks to be a fantastic prospect. He tired as the second half wore on but overall I was delighted with him. Second point is - I haven't seen any highlights whatsoever but when I do I want to look at Ginger's positioning and lack of endeavour to deal with the balls across on both of their goals, especially the second one which looked to me as though he could have thrown his cap on it. As I say, I haven't seen a replay and I could well be wrong.

I'd agree that Hall has talent but wasn't impressed last night. had his moments first half, totally anonymous 2nd. I took a dislike to his diving as well, did it a couple of times and also just fell over on other occasions. My mate asked if he was wearing Vaz Te's old boots. I'm obviously in the minority though as he got plenty of applause when he was subbed, but I just didn't see it last night. For me he shows flashes but as a starter needs to contribute more. I hope he stays in though because he is a genuine prospect and we're not exactly overburdened with those.

I was a tad surprised when I read your comments about Hall, I think I normally agree with most of the stuff you write. I thought we lost all movement once he came off. At least he looked like he wanted the ball. Tierney looked up for the fight, as did Spearing, about time he was given the armband in my opinion.

I do wonder if Eagles has been told to be a bit greedy as we're not getting goals from the strikers at the moment. Either that or he played very selfishly last night, lucky for him it worked out with a great goal.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Again: 22 shots, which is good, but only having 4 of them on target is not. I'd rather that than getting 1 of 3 on target, but a bit of accuracy wouldn't go amiss.

Freedman: (quotes from BBC)
"This is the first time in my management career at Bolton that I'm going to say I am frustrated. There's a lot of suggestion there that we've got a good team, we just need to gel them together a little bit and stop losing goals at crucial moments in football matches.
"It's certainly a spirited performance but it's a game we should win. There was loads of plusses, it's just you score a couple of goals and where you are right now you think that's going to be enough for you but it doesn't quite work that way.
"We are trying very hard; we're in training double sessions, we're working with the players we've got and we're trying our very best to put it right."